Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[SEALBound]

I'd be pretty surprised if Eller goes anywhere. Sullivan seems to love him.

He likes Eller and misses Jeff Carter. So what do you do?

Easy, Kevin Hayes.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I've been screaming this from the high heavens ever since we acquired him, but Bennstrom is the most logical guy who could fix this PP with his shot alone. But we have to give PP ice time to what's worked in the past, not what will work now.

He has a good shot in a vacuum but I don't think he would actually help the powerplay that much. I don't think he has the overall talent level for that. They tried him up there IIRC last season and he didn't look any better than what had been done. Of course it's very much a schematic thing with the powerplay too so nobody is going to look great.

Personnel-wise the answer to the powerplay woes isn't even currently on the roster IMO.

He likes Eller and misses Jeff Carter. So what do you do?

Easy, Kevin Hayes.

We need a sad and/or barf emojie, man.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't know anything about hockey.

To follow up on this point, perhaps CLC was referring to principles of dynamic skill and skill chaining. Also, there's an element of new shooting concepts that seem to elude the scouting and perhaps development groups.

I'm away currently, so I can't get too in the weeds. But we don't have a lot good shooters to begin with and we don't have a lot new concept shooters.

Really good shooters try to go bar down all the time. Danton Heinen was a low residue player that got a chance here and I think had a career high in goals. We saw Pulkkinen plenty last year. We saw a dash of Bemstrom. And like, Bemstrom does nothing, right? He can score once every seven games or whatever but he's nothing but a shot.

Our power play didn't work because we didn't shoot. Finally, when some PP changes started to be made down the stretch, I think we were leading the NHL in shot attempts on the PP. It wasn't "just keep it simple and shoot, stupid" (the less catchy version of KISS...JKISAS). That was the problem. We were in a formation and shooting. On a team (well, single power play unit) that has dynamic playmakers and relatively weak shots, there were guys standing in place and firing.

The guys that can shoot a bit, weren't set in motion and playing off passes. Watch Karlsson's goals before he got here. Look at the pre-shot movement and the pre-shot pass concepts. Reirden was bringing old Washington PP concepts to the table for a team that had the inverse.

Anyway, back to the roster. Heinen and Bemstrom are basically a net negative unless they score a goal. They don't score a goal often enough. So you turn to workers. I'm not saying right, wrong, or indifferent...but that's how it is.

Sullivan has a history of saddling Crosby with anyone he thinks he can work off of...inexperienced minor leaguers like Sheary and Gibbons, in big spots, for instance. It's really about not having the organizational depth to give anyone a chance but these Acciari types because at least they sort of break even in a game. Given that we ADJUSTED *siren noise* into being a more defensive team last year, bleh players like Acciari make sense because they won't make a mess.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So what you're KINDA saying is that what the Penguins are doing is the equivalent to lining up for a pitched battle while everyone else is using machine guns?

Sounds about right.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Ryder must be shitting in his pants…

The Yager news and your post aren't related.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The Yager news and your post aren't related.

 

[Michael Farkas]

So what you're KINDA saying is that what the Penguins are doing is the equivalent to lining up for a pitched battle while everyone else is using machine guns?

Sounds about right.

Yeah, in a way. I also didn't expand on any points because I'm unfocused. I'm sorry.

Good shooters shoot bar down, right? Look at how the best shooters are doing it though...the new way to beat "regular" goaltending...it's timed to the goalie's movement and they shoot for the hip, for instance. Then of course the Draisaitl no angle stuff. Sid knows that in a way and does it but he isn't an elite finisher especially from distance.

So you have some scouts that have been here a while and they draft "old skill" but do they all understand what innovation looks like?

Maybe with Dubas/Spezza and now Clark in there, maybe we can see some progress and this group can stop pining for *checks notes* Justin ****** Almeida...? (I think that happened one time when I was over here haha)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Your unfocused analysis is far better than what I could produce on even my most razor sharp days so no apology needed. I definitely agree based on what I've seen over the years. The team in general has gotten very, very stale and insular in the last six or seven seasons. Post B2B in general, really. They have a lot of work to do particularly when it comes to drafting and development in the coming years so I'm right there with you in hoping they start getting with the now.

And I'll have you know that Almeida was a damned STAR for my hometown Wheeling Nailers, OK?

 

[Ryder71]

Ryder stopped bitching non-stop on here so Yager finally signed.

Actually, a little birdy told me about a week ago he was about to sign, so at that time I relented.

"Let's shut that guy on the internet up!"

Signing Yager, and getting Howe and Brunicke signed as well is a nice start.

 

[Ryder71]

Mario is very much to blame for the current situation. He backed Sully over JR and then hired the disaster known as Ron "weirdo" Hextall.

Mario's response was to cash out and for zee hills. Mario was my one childhood sports hero.......but Mario can get bent.

Agreed, he went from a hero to a zero.

 

[Michael Farkas]

At this point, Mario could beat my grandmother to death with my cat Dupuis and I'd still love him.

I know it's nice and tidy to assign blame to one person because anything else is abstract (tangential Godwin"s law?)...but there's no need to be (more) rash...

 

[Ugene Magic]

At this point, Mario could beat my grandmother to death with my cat Dupuis and I'd still love him.

I know it's nice and tidy to assign blame to one person because anything else is abstract (tangential Godwin"s law?)...but there's no need to be (more) rash...

The backlash of Mario/ownership group against FSG is what's hurt things and why Mario isn't present like he hoped to still be. Things are mainly falling under FSG/Dubas/Sully's hands.

I don't even know if they resolved the issue or not.

 

[The Old Master]

I’ll just remind people of the following: welcome Yager if he can get his shot off against NHL players or on the PP lol…

https://x.com/i/web/status/1774463547352715700

yeah, but that's not graded on the sully curve. it should look something like this &

 

[Tom Hanks]

CBJ want picks and prospects so certainly of our radar

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816871751902499183

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

CBJ want picks and prospects so certainly of our radar

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816871751902499183

Probably. But KK DID say that acquiring picks would help us get into conversations for players we normally wouldn't be in on.

 

[Ugene Magic]

CBJ want picks and prospects so certainly of our radar

https://x.com/i/web/status/1816871751902499183

Not really a net positive enough to warrant going after anyway.

His cap hit -
His health -
His attitude -

They would need to eat 50% to garnish positive small returns.

 

[Ryder71]

The youth > Boomer doomers

#CelebrateYouth

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

He has a good shot in a vacuum but I don't think he would actually help the powerplay that much. I don't think he has the overall talent level for that. They tried him up there IIRC last season and he didn't look any better than what had been done. Of course it's very much a schematic thing with the powerplay too so nobody is going to look great.

Personnel-wise the answer to the powerplay woes isn't even currently on the roster IMO.

I have a different perspective.

Any PP essentially exists "in a vacuum". That's why guys like Sprong and about 10 years ago Martin Fryk (sp?) succeeded in this league. They may not have the rest of the toolbox to be confident in putting them out there 5 v 5, but can do well in these situations. I mean what is Ovi now other than a PP specialist and he cranked out a ton of PP production last year.

Any decent PP has to have 1 thing it does well. A really good one has multiple ways to beat the goalie. That's why the Pens in the Kessel era were so deadly; ditto the Caps. Leafs are in this category nowadays.

Right now, we have not 1 thing we do well (except for giving up SH goals). That has to change. They need a new foundation and the easiest thing to do is to give the guy with the best shot, 1 timers galore by parking him on his off-dot. Bennstrom doesn't even have to move all that much. Let Bunting be the net front guy and puck retrievals.

Once teams figure this out, then we can add onto other options. But the same dudes who we threw out last year, the other teams don't fear ANYTHING. It used to be Sid's side of net deflection. It also used to be Malkin's bomb. Neither of those are viable options anymore (probably a different discussion)

Considering the rest of the roster, it really doesn't matter what other 3 guys are out there. They all are/have been mediocre with the man advantage for like forever.

Bennstrom can fix the PP. They have to at least consider this option.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They finally have a guy who is capable and willing to act as a net front presence again (Bunting) so hopefully they just throw pucks at the net instead of constantly looking for the highlight reel play.

Ah, who am I kidding...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a different perspective.

Any PP essentially exists "in a vacuum". That's why guys like Sprong and about 10 years ago Martin Fryk (sp?) succeeded in this league. They may not have the rest of the toolbox to be confident in putting them out there 5 v 5, but can do well in these situations. I mean what is Ovi now other than a PP specialist and he cranked out a ton of PP production last year.

Any decent PP has to have 1 thing it does well. A really good one has multiple ways to beat the goalie. That's why the Pens in the Kessel era were so deadly; ditto the Caps. Leafs are in this category nowadays.

Right now, we have not 1 thing we do well (except for giving up SH goals). That has to change. They need a new foundation and the easiest thing to do is to give the guy with the best shot, 1 timers galore by parking him on his off-dot. Bennstrom doesn't even have to move all that much. Let Bunting be the net front guy and puck retrievals.

Once teams figure this out, then we can add onto other options. But the same dudes who we threw out last year, the other teams don't fear ANYTHING. It used to be Sid's side of net deflection. It also used to be Malkin's bomb. Neither of those are viable options anymore (probably a different discussion)

Considering the rest of the roster, it really doesn't matter what other 3 guys are out there. They all are/have been mediocre with the man advantage for like forever.

Bennstrom can fix the PP. They have to at least consider this option.

I definitely appreciate your perspective and I get what you are going for but I just can't agree. Guys like Bennstrom are where they are for a reason in general. He has a bomb, sure. But he just doesn't have near the full toolkit to operate on the powerplay or at least in a way to improve it. You mention Kessel and that's a great example... everyone knew him for his deadly wrister but it was the multiple offensive dimensions he brought on the powerplay including skating and in particular his super underrated playmaking and vision that made him deadly on the man advantage. His shot in some ways in that context was an afterthought.

I disagree that you can be a whatever kind of player with one strong suit and still be successful on the powerplay. I think you need to have a variety of offensive weapons and vision/IQ to operate effectively, there. And a player like Bennstrom just doesn't have it. Heck look at that hobbit they stuck there last season. Dude has a terrific shot and nothing else and he looked utterly lost.

I dunno. Maybe things can be re-assessed with a new guy running the powerplay. But that guy is friggin' Quinn. So probably not.

 

[Ugene Magic]

#CelebrateYouth

For some.... might as well call them the "Pittsburgh Prospects".

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Not really a net positive enough to warrant going after anyway.

His cap hit -
His health -
His attitude -

They would need to eat 50% to garnish positive small returns.

I'd be interested in a hail Mary type deal.

Laine 50% retention

2nd + Accairi + 5th

Not giving up a lot and Laine could help witg finishing.

Malkin line becomes O zone heavy and Crosby and 3rd mix it up with the rest.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'd be interested in a hail Mary type deal.

Laine 50% retention

2nd + Accairi + 5th

Not giving up a lot and Laine could help witg finishing.

Malkin line becomes O zone heavy and Crosby and 3rd mix it up with the rest.

I'm more in line with...

Grave + 3rd for Laine @50%

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, I'd throw the Jackets something like Rakell + Pickering or one of the 300 2nd rounders the team has for Laine with retention and if they're not willing to go that route then shrug and hang up. Not worth chasing, but if he's available for cheap then it's worth a shot to see if he can salvage his career. If not, then hopefully he'd drive Mike Sullivan to resigning.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

How about trading Sullivan + Quinn for Laine