Brisson confirms that EP40 dealt with injury which prevented him from Off-season Training.

[Canucker]

Management being open to it means they don't understand the bet they're making. If he rebounds, even with low odds, JR/Allvin/Tocchet should all be gone.

Acknowledging the presence of injury is key. If we agree that he is injured, whether or not we disagree on its severity is secondary to the time needed for recovery. He has to be given that window. That goes beyond July 1st, 2025.

We have already passed the time where it would have been optimal to trade him. Now we ride it out.

I don't necessarily agree with that...and for me its not only about the injury, I don't know EP's frame of mind and if he is a guy I want to build around, I'll trust management with that decision since I don't know all the inner workings that brought us to this place...if he is that guy and they have confidence this is temporary, then by all means keep him, but if he's a pain in the ass to deal with or they think he's a "flight risk", I'm open to cutting bait.

 

[WiLBoY]

The amount of excuses for Pettersson is wild.

No stability in the system as it's a short tournament so he can't strive. Can't strive in Tocchet's strict system.

Can't play because of Miller. Can't play because of teammates because they're not good. Can't play with the best Swedes. Can't play because of contract distraction. Can't play because of so called injury.

At some point you have to just think it's just the player

 

[Bleach Clean]

I don't necessarily agree with that...and for me its not only about the injury, I don't know EP's frame of mind and if he is a guy I want to build around, I'll trust management with that decision since I don't know all the inner workings that brought us to this place...if he is that guy and they have confidence this is temporary, then by all means keep him, but if he's a pain in the ass to deal with or they think he's a "flight risk", I'm open to cutting bait.

If EP's "frame of mind" deters you from the player, then his injury is irrelevant to the decision.

 

[Canucker]

If EP's "frame of mind" deters you from the player, then his injury is irrelevant to the decision.

Not completely, but sure...it could be irrelevant. I have a lot of unanswered questions about everything that has gone on since we found out about the tendonitis issue, including how Miller may have played into it and that whole debacle. I think management has a lot more insight to what's really going on, things we'll probably never know...and I hope they will do the right thing based on the knowledge they have.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

f***, you guys are on fire today. Love to see it.

EP told management directly he wants to be here. He’s still here. I think he just wants to be here. It’s always darkest before the dawn.

 

[Breakers]

The amount of excuses for Pettersson is wild.

Precisely
He produced with 3 players who were cap dumps in todays NHL

his body language is terrible

 

[Canucker]

f***, you guys are on fire today. Love to see it.

EP told management directly he wants to be here. He’s still here. I think he just wants to be here. It’s always darkest before the dawn.

If there was a chance you could be traded to Buffalo or Columbus, or somewhere else you probably don't want to go, wouldn't you say you wanted to stay and control your destiny once your NMC kicked in?

Apparently EP doesn't mind telling little white lies as well...so there is that too.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Tocchet's system has stifled the entire team's offense, not just Pettersson.

But the entirety of Pettersson's struggles are not due to the system. It just hasn't helped matters.

JTM, Hughes, Joshua, Suter, Hoglander, Hronek and Petterson (yes him too) all scored their career highs (or pacing for career highs) in points under Tocchet. Only 6 teams scored more goals than the Canucks last sesason.

Now all the sudden Tocchet's system is a problem?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

If there was a chance you could be traded to Buffalo or Columbus, or somewhere else you probably don't want to go, wouldn't you say you wanted to stay and control your destiny once your NMC kicked in?

Apparently EP doesn't mind telling little white lies as well...so there is that too.

Well I don’t know EP, never met the guy. But I feel like I’m a decent judge of character at least. I’m wrong sometimes, but that’s ok. I’m just a big a fan as any on here. I’m not here to argue, but discuss. Discussing I’m fine with, but my dad taught me not to ever write off someone you don’t know personally. So I will not argue. I just see things a bit differently.

 

[iFan]

We may regret not trading him, he seems so disengaged. If he can’t get motivated to play for his country then we have no hope for him playing for the Canucks.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Not completely, but sure...it could be irrelevant. I have a lot of unanswered questions about everything that has gone on since we found out about the tendonitis issue, including how Miller may have played into it and that whole debacle. I think management has a lot more insight to what's really going on, things we'll probably never know...and I hope they will do the right thing based on the knowledge they have.

If the injury could be irrelevant then you are effectively ignoring all of that correlated data.

I trust management to navigate the Pettersson situation as much as I trust their ability to assess personality re: Miller.

JTM, Hughes, Joshua, Suter, Hoglander, Hronek and Petterson (yes him too) all scored their career highs (or pacing for career highs) in points under Tocchet. Only 6 teams scored more goals than the Canucks last sesason.

Now all the sudden Tocchet's system is a problem?

Conversion is a hell of a drug...

The Canucks have generally converted more than their expected goals would suggest. Only now, their expected goals have cratered. That's a major issue.

Pettersson achieved 102 points in the Boudreau/Tocchet season, not the full Tocchet season.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

If the injury could be irrelevant then you are effectively ignoring all of that correlated data.

I trust management to navigate the Pettersson situation as much as I trust their ability to assess personality re: Miller.



Conversion is a hell of a drug...

The Canucks have generally converted more than their expected goals would suggest. Only now, their expected goals have cratered. That's the real issue.

Pettersson achieved 102 points in the Boudreau/Tocchet season, not the full Tocchet season.

So the team was converting well under Tocchet last season, but not so much this season. Is that a Tocchet's system issue, or the players not executing well this season? I find it interesting that the same coach and same system that allow players to score at a high rate one season ago, is now being blamed for stifling the entire team's offense?

Yes Petey's 102 points season was under 2 coaches, but his scoring rate did not deviate much between the 2 periods. If Tocchet's system is so stifling, shouldn't Petey's scoring rate immediately cratered when Tocchet took over?

You said "only now, their expected goals have cratered" and your conclusion is the coaching/system fault. But when the coaching/system is constant, and the difference are mostly players-health related (ie: Petey's knee, JTM's shoulder, Joshua's health, Boeser's concussion, etc), then how does it make sense to blame the system?

 

[Diablo2020]

f***, you guys are on fire today. Love to see it.

EP told management directly he wants to be here. He’s still here. I think he just wants to be here. It’s always darkest before the dawn.

And managment will directly realize the player will never live upto his contract and if theyre smart they OEL him before he holds all the power.

 

[Canucker]

If the injury could be irrelevant then you are effectively ignoring all of that correlated data.

I trust management to navigate the Pettersson situation as much as I trust their ability to assess personality re: Miller.

I'm not ignoring it...I'm just choosing to trust management because I believe they have more access to actual information surrounding the situation...if they get it wrong then it's on them. What I'm choosing to ignore is all the noise from all the online medical "professionals" and Petey truthers...I don't believe there is a whole lot of actual "data" and a whole lot of projective storyboarding going on.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

And managment will directly realize the player will never live upto his contract and if theyre smart they OEL him before he holds all the power.

My man, we live in a time where 'too much information' doesn't exist as a turn of phrase anymore.

Rev's got......glaucoma. Rev no read no good some times.

 

[poler]

I'm not ignoring it...I'm just choosing to trust management because I believe they have more access to actual information surrounding the situation...if they get it wrong then it's on them. What I'm choosing to ignore is all the noise from all the online medical "professionals" and Petey truthers...I don't believe there is a whole lot of actual "data" and a whole lot of projective storyboarding going on.

Yeah because Canucks have a great track record with injury to players cough Pearson, mikeave..

 

[Andy Dufresne]

My man, we live in a time where 'too much information' doesn't exist as a turn of phrase anymore.

Rev's got......glaucoma. Rev no read no good some times.

I've heard you can take something for that. I've had a lot friends over the years with glaucoma.
Might not make the Petey problem seem any clearer though.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I've heard you can take something for that. I've had a lot friends over the years with glaucoma.
Might not make the Petey problem seem any clearer though.

That's a post and in kinda post right there.

 

[TraderJim]

View attachment 979046

And managment will directly realize the player will never live upto his contract and if theyre smart they OEL him before he holds all the power.

You had me wondering what the Coyotes board was saying about OEL before he got traded here as a comparison and its amazingly similar arguments:

Thread 'Will OEL rebound?'

Jun 10, 2021

Simple question, what is the % chance, in your view, that OEL will play well enough to justify his contract?

• KG
• Replies: 50
• Forum: Arizona Coyotes

• 

If he is relieved of the “C” and the pressure that comes with that he may rebound slightly

Well the peak is almost always going to be an outlier, but I disagree that something approaching that shouldn't be expected.

For one , I think he was actually better in 14-15 that team was just such a trashheap the numbers won't show it outright in raw production. You can't rack up assists passing to Marc Arcobello and Ty McGinn

His decline is a bitch because it's both physical and mental. He's never had the same mobility post knee injuries, and he constantly re-aggravates them. Maybe if he had to sit for a whole season due to a lockout. TBH I really don't buy the Tocchet hurting his game theory, OEL's decline predates that by like a year and a half.

He definitely seems to have lost his spark. Kid was a passion player. Really a treat to watch. Now? He’s muted. Gray. Dull.

Given some of the terrible handling of certain players we've witnessed and feedback from scouts around the league about our previous coaching administration, I think there is a good chance OEL will heavily benefit from a newly implemented play style.

Someone in the media said Tocchet has a....... fault!? Good thing he's anonymous otherwise he'd be crucified while being burned at the stake (cross stake?).

OEL will not play up to his value, but either do a lot of other players in the NHL. OEL is currently our second best Dman, and after him it gets pretty thin. IF we trade him we better get equal value back or I keep him. If we trade him for parts, as some have mentioned, BA should be fired on the spot.

 

[Diablo2020]

@TraderJim OMFG I dont know if u seen but ive been spamming OEL comparisons for a day straight and even thought about looking back at the OEL threads but figured with the HF changes theyd be gone, plus the Yotes board disappeared.

Even considered tagging popular yotes poster RT to ask some questions..

I will now hunt down all the comments from the OEL truthers (all 5 yotes fans LOL) because im actually positive they are all carbon copys of EVERY SINGLE PETEY defense ive read here for the last year.

From golden boy named captain (by tocchet)..

To albatross 8 year 66 mill deal..

To day one shopping him with a NMC..

To knee injuries tanking him..

To a year of NMC standoff we were literally involved in..

To dumping him for capdumps..

Im sure there was many "would Montreal consider suzuki for petey" type comments before the inevitable Loui Eriksson centerpiece deal.

Thankyou kind friend I will now hunt.

 

[Diablo2020]

You had me wondering what the Coyotes board was saying about OEL before he got traded here as a comparison and its amazingly similar arguments:

Thread 'Will OEL rebound?'

Jun 10, 2021

Simple question, what is the % chance, in your view, that OEL will play well enough to justify his contract?

• KG
• Replies: 50
• Forum: Arizona Coyotes

• 

I forgot to quote reply to you my reply is below but here's my real quick update.

It only took 36 pages back to find the OG "OEL on the move" thread from 2020. On here itd be like 360 pages back haha.

To yotes fans credit, there is a part 2. I guess a year of holding your team hostage with a NMC can even get the Yotes to a 2000+ post thread.

First thing I noticed is allllll the teams involved as per Yotes fans.

Edmonton, St Louis, Vegas the list goes on.

Somewhere halfway thru thread 1 they had their hearts broken by news of TWO teams ONLY, neither of which had much focus by fans.

Vancouver and Boston.


Before that though, definetly some RNH asks.

As we know in the end, it was Loui Eriksson instead.

I'll continue but with the ones you found and the goldmine you've unconvered for me, id say my assumptions were correct and this is exactly the Arizona OEL arc we are on, not Buffalo and Eichel.

 

[Breakers]

Yeah because Canucks have a great track record with injury to players cough Pearson, mikeave..

Remember when we had a Golf Instructor from arizona who had a chiropractor certificate as our head of medicine


so franking embarrassing

 

[Quinning]

I really think they're going to move him. And we will have lost two top six centres for pennies on the dollar.

 

[arttk]

I really think they're going to move him. And we will have lost two top six centres for pennies on the dollar.

funny how you have been pushing to trade EP40 and at the same time say .. oh no .. we are going to lose him for cheap.

 

[Bleach Clean]

So the team was converting well under Tocchet last season, but not so much this season. Is that a Tocchet's system issue, or the players not executing well this season? I find it interesting that the same coach and same system that allow players to score at a high rate one season ago, is now being blamed for stifling the entire team's offense?

Yes Petey's 102 points season was under 2 coaches, but his scoring rate did not deviate much between the 2 periods. If Tocchet's system is so stifling, shouldn't Petey's scoring rate immediately cratered when Tocchet took over?

You said "only now, their expected goals have cratered" and your conclusion is the coaching/system fault. But when the coaching/system is constant, and the difference are mostly players-health related (ie: Petey's knee, JTM's shoulder, Joshua's health, Boeser's concussion, etc), then how does it make sense to blame the system?

The system seeks low event hockey which is not conducive to padding stats.

Pettersson's major issue is still his injury, imo. He hasn't been good, but the environment hasn't helped. There are fewer opportunities to rush and to garner secondary assists. His stat line then misses out on those points.

The four players being injured may cause a team to fall to 32nd, I'm not sure?

I'm not ignoring it...I'm just choosing to trust management because I believe they have more access to actual information surrounding the situation...if they get it wrong then it's on them. What I'm choosing to ignore is all the noise from all the online medical "professionals" and Petey truthers...I don't believe there is a whole lot of actual "data" and a whole lot of projective storyboarding going on.

You've now come to the point where the nuance in the argument erodes to: Mental make-up vs Injury.

Blind faith in management will lead one to view all contradicting information as storyboarding or narrative. The irony is that JR/Allvin's position of 'no injury' does not reconcile with the speed data, the lowered rush chances, Brisson and Pettersson's account of injury and Tocchet's admission on tendinitis. There's nothing but their word on the matter. Nothing.

Even the 'lack of preparation' comment by Allvin lines up with Pettersson not being able to train properly (Brisson).

Management's position is tenuous.