Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[BusinessGoose]

Right, the decision to keep Sullivan was easy for them. Hardly a debate at all.

 

[Gurglesons]

I almost wish that were the case. But it's worse than that. It's not that they think it's too hard to make tough decisions, it's that they truly don't think firing the coach is a good decision.

That's the scary part. They literally think they've got a generational coach and firing him would be a bad hockey decision.

It falls on Dubas much like it fell on Hextall for me.

Even if Hextall didn't have the power to fire him, I bet if Dubas wanted to he could.

Instead, he's taking the easy way out because ultimately Sullivan's throat is getting cut before his and the longer he keeps that arrow quivered the longer the heat on Dubas is off.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

If we somehow finish in the top 3 this year Frondell would be a very solid pick that could potentially be a franchise guy.

I don’t trust Hagens.

Frondell is the next Barkov book it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t like quitters in life, work, or sports.

If the routes had been exhausted, I’d get the idea of packing it in.

What I see from my end is a GM who can’t make big swings and who can’t make the tough decisions just like in Toronto so he’s taking the easy out of “rebuild” because the prolongs the amount of rope he gets.

I wasn’t alive for the Mario tank. The 2002 season and beyond was largely forced on the team financially.

We have one of the richest ownerships in the league now and we are choosing to be the most milque toast franchise because it’s too hard to make tough decisions.

Rebuilding is the opposite of giving up. It's enduring years of misery so you can at some point achieve the ultimate goal. It's progress towards championships.
This league requires it in order to replenish your prospect pool and strengthen your position.

Rich ownership doesn't avail when you're dealing with a salary cap. You're not gonna escape the system with your bank account.
If the Pens were like Vegas and management were constantly making ruthless decisions to stay contenders, sure, they could avoid a rebuild.
But they didn't do that, and they have no choice now.

The real waving the white flag would be accepting bubble purgatory status for a decade+. I will never support my team becoming Minnesota east.
I wanna see a 6th Cup, and there's a clear route that boosts your odds of doing that.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Suck after next season so we grab McKenna.

They already had him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Rebuilding is the opposite of giving up. It's enduring years of misery so you can at some point achieve the ultimate goal. It's progress towards championships.
This league requires it in order to replenish your prospect pool and strengthen your position.

Rich ownership doesn't avail when you're dealing with a salary cap. You're not gonna escape the system with your bank account.
If the Pens were like Vegas and management were constantly making ruthless decisions to stay contenders, sure, they could avoid a rebuild.
But they didn't do that, and they have no choice now.

The real waving the white flag would be accepting bubble purgatory status for a decade+. I will never support my team becoming Minnesota east.
I wanna see a 6th Cup, and there's a clear route that boosts your odds of doing that.

Team’s always have a choice.

Doing what Dubas is doing now is the easiest thing possible. Moving players with retention and accepting bad contracts for picks. Tearing down is simple.

The issue is building up. We have rarely seen it work in the cap era since the early 2000s in Chicago, LA, and PIT.

If Dubas goes full tear down this team will forever be in purgatory IMO under him.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Hagens is insanely good. Won’t be mad if we suck and get him

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If Dubas goes full tear down this team will forever be in purgatory IMO under him.

Have to try or there's zero chance at a 6th Cup, so it's the default logical option. Not gonna do it through a half-ass re-tool with a poor foundational starting point. Forget it.

Too early to say with Dubas. Sometimes GMs surprise. I'm pretty happy with his returns on trades so far. Think he's a better negotiator than Rutherford and Hextall. Think he's gonna draft and develop better, pushing the coach to give youth opportunity to grow. We already saw that with Puustinen last year.

I'm more annoyed with FSG's restrictions and shortsightedness than I am with Dubas atm. When they came here, I was excited. Thought they were hungry for championships. Had this great reputation.
Now they're unwilling to do what it takes to win, and push to maintain bubble status.

 

[SEALBound]

Have to try or there's zero chance at a 6th Cup, so it's the default logical option. Not gonna do it through a half-ass re-tool with a poor foundational starting point. Forget it.

Too early to say with Dubas. Sometimes GMs surprise. I'm pretty happy with his returns on trades so far. Think he's a better negotiator than Rutherford and Hextall. Think he's gonna draft and develop better, pushing the coach to give youth opportunity to grow. We already saw that with Puustinen last year.

I'm more annoyed with FSG's restrictions and shortsightedness than I am with Dubas atm. When they came here, I was excited. Thought they were hungry for championships. Had this great reputation.
Now they're unwilling to do what it takes to win, and push to maintain bubble status.

Thats prooooobably true but given the roster we have, we need a horse trader like JR to swing a couple Scuds-Daley deals to get us back in contention.

 

[Gurglesons]

Have to try or there's zero chance at a 6th Cup, so it's the default logical option. Not gonna do it through a half-ass re-tool with a poor foundational starting point. Forget it.

Too early to say with Dubas. Sometimes GMs surprise. I'm pretty happy with his returns on trades so far. Think he's a better negotiator than Rutherford and Hextall. Think he's gonna draft and develop better, pushing the coach to give youth opportunity to grow. We already saw that with Puustinen last year.

I'm more annoyed with FSG's restrictions and shortsightedness than I am with Dubas atm. When they came here, I was excited. Thought they were hungry for championships. Had this great reputation.
Now they're unwilling to do what it takes to win, and push to maintain bubble status.

We never tried to compete. We’ve been following the same plan Hextall had from day one.

I honestly don’t get it. Nothing changes by having picks.

This team is dirt for a decade. Might as well try and at least put an entertaining / competitive roster out there for the remaining 2/3 years we have the core if you are going to insistent on keeping them.

 

[HandshakeLine]

FSG might be worse owners than Eddie DeBartolo, and he was straight up mafia!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, I got no idea what FSG's aim is here. You buy a franchise for like a couple hundred million more than it's worth, moments before it tumbles into a decade of irrelevance and terrible ticket/merch sales, and you just kinda sit around without trying to get as much cash (playoff appearances, big moves to drive ticket/merch sales) out of the final years of Sid as possible?

I don't think they really give a shit though, tbh. They just bought the team to continue acquiring more *things*.

 

[deakka]

I wonder how long we are allowed to spend to the the cap. As we get worse and worse and playoff revenues continue to escape us and attendance plummets, I do wonder how long FSG wanna throw money away spending to the cap?

 

[Harvey Birdman]

Yeah, I got no idea what FSG's aim is here. You buy a franchise for like a couple hundred million more than it's worth, moments before it tumbles into a decade of irrelevance and terrible ticket/merch sales, and you just kinda sit around without trying to get as much cash (playoff appearances, big moves to drive ticket/merch sales) out of the final years of Sid as possible?

I don't think they really give a shit though, tbh. They just bought the team to continue acquiring more *things*.

Because they know it will eventually make money. The when they get out of the "red" for the purchase isn't an immediate concern because they know eventually they will. Completely different business. But back in my early 20's I was a bartender and one of the places I worked was bought by a new owner part way through my employment there. When speaking to the new owner he knew he wouldn't be out of the "red" for 5-6 years but eventually he would so it wasn't a large concern. These huge ownership groups I would imagine look at sports teams the same way as that owner looked at the bar I worked at way back then just with larger dollars and larger timelines.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Because they know it will eventually make money. The when they get out of the "red" for the purchase isn't an immediate concern because they know eventually they will. Completely different business. But back in my early 20's I was a bartender and one of the places I worked was bought by a new owner part way through my employment there. When speaking to the new owner he knew he wouldn't be out of the "red" for 5-6 years but eventually he would so it wasn't a large concern. These huge ownership groups I would imagine look at sports teams the same way as that owner looked at the bar I worked at way back then just with larger dollars and larger timelines.

This would make a lot more sense if they hadn't paid an overinflated price for the team.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

We never tried to compete. We’ve been following the same plan Hextall had from day one.

The Karlsson trade was a win-now move.
Arguably, trading for Smith was as well.

 

[eXile3]

The Karlsson trade was a win-now move.
Arguably, trading for Smith was as well.

And I honestly believe with a different coach they would have helped us get into the playoffs.

I don’t care which direction they pick. Compete, rebuild…it’s more important that they pick one. This in between stuff is going to result in the nothing.

 

[SEALBound]

I almost wish that were the case. But it's worse than that. It's not that they think it's too hard to make tough decisions, it's that they truly don't think firing the coach is a good decision.

That's the scary part. They literally think they've got a generational coach and firing him would be a bad hockey decision.

Again, I'd like to know the cores role in keeping him. This very well could be a self inflicted wound by the core.

 

[Andy99]

Again, I'd like to know the cores role in keeping him. This very well could be a self inflicted wound by the core.

Even if they love him and want him to stay, they all loved Hagelin too and wanted him to stay…same with Jake…you don’t have to listen to them if you’re Dubas…just say “I think it’s best for our future chances of getting back to the playoffs if we move on”….not much you say back to that lol as it’s true

 

[Gurglesons]

This would make a lot more sense if they hadn't paid an overinflated price for the team.

Utah just went for 1.2 billion.

 

[Ulf5]

Utah just went for 1.2 billion.

Yeah, they'll be fine as long as the value of sports franchises keep rising. Especially with the development revenue they'll gain from the adjoining property.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yeah, they'll be fine as long as the value of sports franchises keep rising. Especially with the development revenue they'll gain from the adjoining property.

Only 150 or so major sports franchises in the US depending on what you think of MLS. Maybe there’s 180 in 50 years? And these teams rarely get sold. Limited supply and high barrier to entry.

NFL is king. Massive, expensive but hard to see it slowing down.

MLB teams make a lot bc of season length but game has struggled to modernize.

NBA is probably peaking rn in terms of dollar #s. Not sure I’d want to buy there.

Very hard to see values going down over the long term for the NHL from where they are now.

Would imagine the NHL and MLS are the two most attractive leagues to buy into at the moment if you can’t afford an NFL team. It’s unfortunate for fans because I don’t really think you have to throw together a great product or manage a team that great to get out of your investment in the green.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Karlsson trade was a win-now move.
Arguably, trading for Smith was as well.

Most teams aren’t suddenly playoff teams because of one move and no actions to improve the team following it.

Because they know it will eventually make money. The when they get out of the "red" for the purchase isn't an immediate concern because they know eventually they will. Completely different business. But back in my early 20's I was a bartender and one of the places I worked was bought by a new owner part way through my employment there. When speaking to the new owner he knew he wouldn't be out of the "red" for 5-6 years but eventually he would so it wasn't a large concern. These huge ownership groups I would imagine look at sports teams the same way as that owner looked at the bar I worked at way back then just with larger dollars and larger timelines.

I imagine the Penguins are making money.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, I got no idea what FSG's aim is here. You buy a franchise for like a couple hundred million more than it's worth, moments before it tumbles into a decade of irrelevance and terrible ticket/merch sales, and you just kinda sit around without trying to get as much cash (playoff appearances, big moves to drive ticket/merch sales) out of the final years of Sid as possible?

I don't think they really give a shit though, tbh. They just bought the team to continue acquiring more *things*.

They didn't "just" buy the team though. They also bought the devolvement property as well.

They still bought a cash cow.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

This would make a lot more sense if they hadn't paid an overinflated price for the team.

Sportico had them at $850 the year of the sale. I believe FSG paid $900

You’re worth what someone will pay for you.