Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[Sidney the Kidney]

“nothing is actually off between Sid and Pens but things feel off for no reason or anything I’ve heard other than my mind making it up”

very much an article he wrote because he needs a paycheck. Which is fair. It’s just a useless article.

What does that even mean?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We didn’t get an extra pick…all we did is move St Louis’ 2nd from next year to 2026 and in exchange for that we got to move up from a 5th round pick we gave them to a 3rd…we just increased the round we’re picking in…not really a great deal

It's a clean W for the Pens, unless the 5th we gave up ends up better than the 3rd lol

 

[Pancakes]

This is 100000% nitpicking but I think the Penguins could have done this deal without giving up the 5th as well. But like I said, completely nitpicking.

Have to agree with that. St. Louis clearly wanted the 2nd back pretty badly so that they could do these offer sheets. Dubas should have played hardball for it.

I guess this keeps some good will with St. Louis in the future for more trades though.

 

[Ryder71]

Have to agree with that. St. Louis clearly wanted the 2nd back pretty badly so that they could do these offer sheets. Dubas should have played hardball for it.

I guess this keeps some good will with St. Louis in the future for more trades though.

Why then did they make that trade with us in the 1st place?

 

[Pancakes]

Why then did they make that trade with us in the 1st place?

They probably assumed Edmonton would have found a way by now to lock up their RFAs. Once St. Louis realized those guys were still available they decided to make these moves.

 

[Ryder71]

It's a clean W for the Pens, unless the 5th we gave up ends up better than the 3rd lol

We're moving up at a minimum 33 spots and very likely more than 40 spots. That's a good move. Also we now have FIVE picks in the 1st three rounds in 2026 when we're likely gonna be really really awful.

They probably assumed Edmonton would have found a way by now to lock up their RFAs. Once St. Louis realized those guys were still available they decided to make these moves.

Dubas did well for us without necessarily gouging the Blues. That's the best way to play it.

 

[Pancakes]

Dubas did well for us without necessarily gouging the Blues. That's the best way to play it.

Yes that's probably true. A team in our situation with a lack of assets probably should be playing to maximize every asset they can get but I guess there is an argument to be made that it keeps good will open with the Blues for additional trades down the road.

JR's philosophy was always to make moves that were fair deals because of that very reason. Of course JR also signed Jack Johnson and made a slew of terrible moves to go along with the two cups he got us sooo not every bit of wisdom he had was gold lol

 

[deakka]

no reason to burn bridges. you might need them at a later date. you will only make enemies if they think you are taking advantage of them. sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not.

Yeah. It's entire possible Armstrong called Dubas and said. Hey, I'm in a really though splt here and we need our 2nd back. And for helping us out we will upgrade your 5th to a 3rd round pick.
And it's entirely possible Dubas didn't even haggle for more.

I think someone posted out he has done a TON of trades with Armstrong the last few years. And those kind of relationships can rally matter sometimes imo. No need to play hardball in a nothing move like this (I think we made out good btw) with the risk of not getting first dibs on a future deal with STL due to Armstrong thinking Dubas is a POS.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

It's a clean W for the Pens, unless the 5th we gave up ends up better than the 3rd lol

We can argue about this trade 10 years from now . Most likely both players at those draft positions will be long forgotten.

This is one of those whatever trades. I guess I would have preferred not deferring draft picks, but at the same time, 2025 is supposed to be a weak year.

 

[SEALBound]

It's a clean W for the Pens, unless the 5th we gave up ends up better than the 3rd lol

Over a 5 or 10 year period, yeah this is good for us because 3rd > 5th.

My only issue is that the STL 2nd was our only 2nd. Now we have 0 2nds in 25 and 2 in 26. Not that we can't get more potentially but it was nice to have one coming up in a draft that was supposedly deeper than this past year.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Over a 5 or 10 year period, yeah this is good for us because 3rd > 5th.

My only issue is that the STL 2nd was our only 2nd. Now we have 0 2nds in 25 and 2 in 26. Not that we can't get more potentially but it was nice to have one coming up in a draft that was supposedly deeper than this past year.

I have a feeling we will be acquiring more picks this season for next year's draft, I doubt KD os done. For this trade he did well, moving up 60 picks just to swap picks back!

 

[Ryder71]

Over a 5 or 10 year period, yeah this is good for us because 3rd > 5th.

My only issue is that the STL 2nd was our only 2nd. Now we have 0 2nds in 25 and 2 in 26. Not that we can't get more potentially but it was nice to have one coming up in a draft that was supposedly deeper than this past year.

True, however the blues paid a premium for that. And I feel pretty confident in saying we'll be accruing more picks, prospects and young players over the next few years.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

We can argue about this trade 10 years from now . Most likely both players at those draft positions will be long forgotten.

This is one of those whatever trades. I guess I would have preferred not deferring draft picks, but at the same time, 2025 is supposed to be a weak year.

2025 is gonna be very deep, but the expectation of landing quality falls off in round 2 in any year.
In isolation these kinda trades are usually whatever, sure. But if you do enough stockpiling, you eventually hit.

Since 2005:
2nd Addison, Goligoski, Sprong, Blomqvist (hope there)
3rd Letang, Rust, Guentzel, Murray
5th: Muzzin
7th: Puustinen (looking promising)

We also traded many picks away during that time. So if you get serious with loading up, there will probably be some joy.
I also think Dubas will draft better than many GMs.

 

[SomeDude]

JR's philosophy was always to make moves that were fair deals because of that very reason.

I’ll never understand JR paying a top 10 pick (that Shero immediately threw in the garbage) a roster player and recent 2nd round pick for Staal after said player made it known he would be signing with Carolina in like 8 months.

It’s amazing we won 2 Cups with that guy.

 

[Pancakes]

I’ll never understand JR paying a top 10 pick (that Shero immediately threw in the garbage) a roster player and recent 2nd round pick for Staal after said player made it known he would be signing with Carolina in like 8 months.

It’s amazing we won 2 Cups with that guy.

I mean how did we win 2 cups with Sullivan? Watching his body of work the past 4-5 years makes me wonder.

Sullivan and JR did everything right for a couple of years. Then all of that success went right to their heads and they buried their heads in the sand and started making idiotic moves and forgot what made them successful in the first place.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Over a 5 or 10 year period, yeah this is good for us because 3rd > 5th.

My only issue is that the STL 2nd was our only 2nd. Now we have 0 2nds in 25 and 2 in 26. Not that we can't get more potentially but it was nice to have one coming up in a draft that was supposedly deeper than this past year.

I'd be more bothered by it if it was a 1st. But in the 2nd round it's probably gonna be a crapshoot, just like other years.
I don't really wanna prioritize 2025 or 2026 picks that much, since the Pens aren't gonna be contenders by the time those prospects are ready to be impact regulars.
Their ELCs will get wasted.
I want like 2029-2032 1sts-3rds. Their development will at least have a chance to line up with a potential Cup window, if this rebuild is orchestrated properly.

 

[Freeptop]

Have to agree with that. St. Louis clearly wanted the 2nd back pretty badly so that they could do these offer sheets. Dubas should have played hardball for it.

I guess this keeps some good will with St. Louis in the future for more trades though.

This basically fulfills the "future considerations" part of the Hayes trade, so you can basically think of that trade as ending up as:
Pens trade a 2026 fifth to the Blues for Kevin Hayes, a 2026 second and a 2025 third.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

They probably assumed Edmonton would have found a way by now to lock up their RFAs. Once St. Louis realized those guys were still available they decided to make these moves.

Yep I like the play.

Dubas got a 3rd for a 5th.

Can't complain about that.

 

[Ryder71]

Dubas got a 3rd for a 5th.

Can't complain about that.

Yet, some here will try, just watch!

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Yet, some here will try, just watch!

If a person wants to quote me and explain how a 3rd is worse than a 5th I am 100% down to listen to the mental gymnastics

 

[SEALBound]

2025 is gonna be very deep, but the expectation of landing quality falls off in round 2 in any year.
In isolation these kinda trades are usually whatever, sure. But if you do enough stockpiling, you eventually hit.

Since 2005:
2nd Addison, Goligoski, Sprong, Blomqvist (hope there)
3rd Letang, Rust, Guentzel, Murray
5th: Muzzin
7th: Puustinen (looking promising)

We also traded many picks away during that time. So if you get serious with loading up, there will probably be some joy.
I also think Dubas will draft better than many GMs.

I did some research awhile back about all of the picks and prospects we gave up since 2005 to see if there were any detrimental impacts. Not knowing how guys were ranked, I think I did the pick # + 5 back. In short, there were no prospects that we've traded away that amounted to anything significant. I believe Sprong was the best goal scorer, but we got a top-pairing dman back for him, so...whatever. Pick wise, the biggest one was the Perron pick that turned into Barzel. There was a 7th that we traded for Kovalev that turned into Dzingle. And then there was a late 1st that we trade for Reaves that if you go back 8 picks, it's Jason Robertson. There may have been one more but I can't remember. Basically, for 19 years we've been trading picks and prospects for roster players and it's easy to see that the guy we got in return was typically worth it. Like the Barzel pick got us Perron who got us Hagelin who was a big part of 16 and 17 so it's hard to be too mad.

The idea that Shero, JR, Hextall, and Dubas have "hemorrhaged picks and prospects" is a bad argument. Not saying that is what you're saying at all, just adding some additional info to your post. I agree that a collection of 1st, 2nd, and 3rds will eventually help. You just have to hope we get lucky and find guys like Aho, Point, Robertson, Guentzel, Murray, etc in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. If FSG's directive is to compete and we aren't getting those high 1sts, it will be tough.

I'd be more bothered by it if it was a 1st. But in the 2nd round it's probably gonna be a crapshoot, just like other years.
I don't really wanna prioritize 2025 or 2026 picks that much, since the Pens aren't gonna be contenders by the time those prospects are ready to be impact regulars.
Their ELCs will get wasted.
I want like 2029-2032 1sts-3rds. Their development will at least have a chance to line up with a potential Cup window, if this rebuild is orchestrated properly.

100% but I don't think any GM is willing to project that far. If McDavid leaves and Draisaitl hurts his knee, Oilers could easily be picking 1st OV again come 2029.

Once Sid, Geno, and Letang retire, we are a gutter team. You just hope it works out like in 03-06 where you guys top guys and already have a good collection of mid-20s guys. That's where I worry about Chicago and Bedard. They have Bedard...and little else. You hope Nazar and a couple of these others work out and they will but Bedard could easily be into his mid to late 20s by the time they collect the youthful depth needed. We we got MAF-Malkin-Sid-Staal, we already had guys like Orpik, Army, Letang, Christensen, Talbot, Whitney, etc to support the new core. We hope that is what the likes of Howe, Brunicke, Broz, Ilyin, Pickering can do for us down the line.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I never want Chicago to be successful again.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol it's definitely Summer. Not only does a nothing transaction merit discussion but people are getting themselves all riled in advance that anyone might complain about it.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

What on gods earth do we need another bottom 6 center for lmao

 

[SEALBound]

Glass to us apparently:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823457509010481383