Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[bambamcam4ever]

People acting like Sid is slow. His top speed last year was in the 80th percentile. Considering how fast the league has gotten that’s not bad.

His speed is fine, he doesn't have the same explosiveness he had a decade ago.

 

[SomeDude]

Where else are they gonna spend the remaining 4 million or whatever?

If Dubas is smart, and he’s not, it will be saved until the deadline to broker deals with retention for picks or take on other Kevin Hayes for assets.

In reality we’re going to give it to Zach Parise or some ****.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You can pay and get fewer ads!

note: I did not say "no ads".

Are we already at this stage of our Pens news boredom?

We are re-litigating the 2010 playoffs, we are way past that stage.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

note: I did not say "no ads".


We are re-litigating the 2010 playoffs, we are way past that stage.

I say we start a poll on whether Bylsma finishes higher or Sullivan does in the standings next season.

 

[Gurglesons]

100% agree. That is what Montreal did to beat us in 2010.

"Sid has Kunitz and Guerin...and Malkin has Fedotenko and Ponikarovsky? Okay, everyone double and triple team Sid and Geno. We'll force their wings to beat us. Lol"

Actually Montreal just put pucks on net and Fleury found a way to put them in.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Actually Montreal just put pucks on net and Fleury found a way to put them in.

I think it's funnier that the Penguins didn't really identify that Fleury needed a new goalie coach at all until basically 2013 after they finally let Gilles Meloche go. Penguins f***ed up Fleury so much, the fact that Fleury has had the career he has is a f***ing miracle and a half given the gross misconduct with his development, seriously at one point they were trying to find a way to avoid playing him to not pay him a rookie bonus, then didn't have a goalie coach or consultant properly in place for him for a while and then didn't until he was almost 30. And when he was fantastic, fans here mostly shit all over a highly scouted and ranked draft pick that seemingly wasn't worthy or capable of that type of play in their pea brains.

They had 18 goals against the Habs that series, Fleury even had a shutout in Game 3 in Montreal. Crosby had 1 goal and 4 assists (-1 as well) in that series, I mean, we all can shit all over Fleury on that one, but that defense wasn't smart, they let Halak get deep inside their own heads and Crosby wasn't all that great in that series at all. When you're scoring barely 2.5 goals per game and your depth and scoring is basically dried up, you aren't going to win shit.

Malkin wasn't better, he had 1 goal and 2 assists and Staal had 2 goals only in that series for the 5 games he was available for. So in the end, it didn't matter if Fleury was better, the Penguins as a whole weren't great at all. They scored 2 or less in 5 out of the 7 games, had one game where they popped in 3 and then one where they had a 6 goal game. Rest, the Habs basically owned them and deserved to win, Penguins had a lot of issues and depth was definitely showing hard in that one because when Sid, Geno and Staal (in his 5 games in that series) were shut down, they didn't have much for an answer with a very done Bill Guerin basically as the other solid winger on that squad.

Guerin was 39, had 2 goals in 5 vs Habs
Dupuis had 1 goal and 3 assists
Kunitz (was there) had 2 goals and 3 assists.

Malkin as usual didn't have the best support for his line, I mean Fedotenko was back and they had Ponikarovsky at that time, major yikes for actual depth which Shero routinely f***ed up on and Bylsma kept some how making that team get to the playoffs. Feds had 0pts in the few games he was in vs the Habs, Poni had 0 goals and 2 assists. It's funny, some of the biggest misses in Bylsma's playoffs career are because the Stars got shut the f*** down, some bad line-up choices at times and then Shero not getting the depth the team needed. Bylsma was fired because of some of those stubborn line-up choices and systems he would deploy - you know, accountability. Shero was also canned.

Meanwhile, Sullivan...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

2010-11 was far more interesting for me - Fleury was actually very good in that series vs the Lightning in all but 3 games and really, even in losing 4-3 series that year, the fact that they took the Bolts to 7 without Sid & Geno with Aaron f***ing Asham leading the team in points (tied with Talbot & Tanger) was more impressive and at least eased the sting for me for the previous season vs the whole Pens getting "Halak'd." Pens still were 4th vs the Bolts being 5th but had a better top 6 for that series.

They lost Gonchar in the off season, Sid & Geno were hurt, yeah the fact they took the Bolts to 7 was pretty cool to see out of that squad. What Bylsma had to work with and still getting them is something Sullivan can't even do and he's never had a roster like what Bylsma dealt with that season with injuries and getting what he got out of some of those players.

After Feb 4th when they lost Geno (Sid a few weeks before) - They went 15-10-4 for a 586 win% - TK and Staal went and put the offense on their shoulders, especially Kennedy who had 12 goals in 28 games.

That's with Dustin f***ing Jeffrey (before he got hurt too) and Mark Letestu in the top 9 C jobs, he had a better win % than Mike Sullivan having Sid & Geno for all 82 f***ing games the last 2 seasons.

L
O
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I feel like that series was the one where I think it was Boucher that exploited the behind the net to the front play with maybe it was Purcell and Bergenheim? Just clowned the Pens and their depleted roster in the losses.

 

[Gurglesons]

Defending 09-10 Fleury is a whole new level for even you HoG.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Defending 09-10 Fleury is a whole new level for even you HoG.

Against the Habs? I'm saying while Fleury wasn't good enough (he had some good moments in that series), neither was the rest of that roster. Are you saying Fleury was the reason Sid, Geno, and Staal didn't produce?

Penguins held the Habs to barely 30 shots per game in that series, but that didn't mean some defensive collapses at inopportune times didn't happen either. Because they did and Fleury needed to be way sharper. But let's not act like he was the single reason they were knocked out in the 2nd round that year.

Edit: And I mean are you really going to cry about that? Fleury went to the finals back 2 back seasons prior to that. 2007-08 and then 2008-09, if we give the they might have been in too many games and gassed excuse to Sid & Geno, Fleury probably deserves that a f*** ton more. Before the playoffs started he's played in 208 games across 3 seasons. They probably should have given Brent Johnson a game or two vs the Sens that year or something, but who knows, who cares. It happened. I mean can you really be that mad?

2007-08 they make a cinderella run to the finals, get taken out by the Wings in 6, a team that no one expected to see get that far when they were almost swept by the Sens the year before.
2008-09 they get revenge and make the finals again vs the Wings - Cup, Sid and Geno are in literally year 3 and 4.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fleury was reason 1 2 and 3 we lost in 09-10.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Fleury was reason 1 2 and 3 we lost in 09-10.

You would be right if you were talking about 2011-12, but nah mate.

 

[Gurglesons]

You would be right if you were talking about 2011-12, but nah mate.

Suggest you go watch the highlights from those two series. He was absolutely awful.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Suggest you go watch the highlights from those two series. He was absolutely awful.

Cool, so were Sid, Geno, and Staal.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cool, so were Sid, Geno, and Staal.

Crosby had 19 points in 13 games.

Jordan Staal was a regular disappointment in the playoffs outside of 12-13 and the Red Wings series.

I think you're really forgetting how that series went. Fleury's ineptitude completely broke the Penguins will.

 

[Pancakes]

I seem to remember it being a combination of Maf shitting the bed and Halak being an unbelievable stone wall. Sometimes goalies decide all I guess.

I went and checked the stats on it and Halak had 8 goals saved above expected that playoffs which is a crazy stat to have over just 18 games played. Maf had a negative 10 goals saved above expected which was the worst mark among any goalie that playoffs lol.

In terms of overall play the Caps had a 61.95% xgoals and lost in 7 games to the Habs. The Pens had a 58% xgoals (2nd best mark in the playoffs) and also lost in 7 to the Habs.

I do vividly remember the Pens being utter garbage in game 7 and it wasn't just Maf. The whole team shit the bed then. But certainly his play overall that playoffs didn't do the Pens any favors.

 

[Gurglesons]

I seem to remember it being a combination of Maf shitting the bed and Halak being an unbelievable stone wall. Sometimes goalies decide all I guess.

I went and checked the stats on it and Halak had 8 goals saved above expected that playoffs which is a crazy stat to have over just 18 games played. Maf had a negative 10 goals saved above expected which was the worst mark among any goalie that playoffs lol.

In terms of overall play the Caps had a 61.95% xgoals and lost in 7 games to the Habs. The Pens had a 58% xgoals (2nd best mark in the playoffs) and also lost in 7 to the Habs.

I do vividly remember the Pens being utter garbage in game 7 and it wasn't just Maf. The whole team shit the bed then. But certainly his play overall that playoffs didn't do the Pens any favors.

MAF let in a squeaker in the first minute of G7 and then an awful goal against Moore. He also was giving up chances left and right got beat multiple times in P1 and Habs luckily missed.

It’s absurd to defend his performance that playoffs. He was downright dog shit as he was throughout that season tbh.

 

[Pancakes]

MAF let in a squeaker in the first minute of G7 and then an awful goal against Moore. He also was giving up chances left and right got beat multiple times in P1 and Habs luckily missed.

It’s absurd to defend his performance that playoffs. He was downright dog shit as he was throughout that season tbh.

The Pens were lucky to win in 09 with Maf. He was really pretty inconsistent overall and put up pretty mediocre numbers. To his credit he did string together two very clutch performances in games 6 and 7 vs the Wings. But his numbers sucked that run. 908 save percentage and negative 5 goals saved above expected. Pretty crap. 09-10 was just more of the same and the Pens should have expected it but they were blinded by a few clutch performances the year before. Maybe if they'd gotten him a new goalie coach earlier they never would have had to go through that era of falling short.

In 08 and 17 Maf was largely spectacular though.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Regardless of whether or not you blame the goalie coach or the head coach, coaching has been this team's Achilles heel since the very beginning of the Gen X years, so it's wild that we're just gonna ride that liability into the sunset.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think it's funnier that the Penguins didn't really identify that Fleury needed a new goalie coach at all until basically 2013 after they finally let Gilles Meloche go. Penguins f***ed up Fleury so much, the fact that Fleury has had the career he has is a f***ing miracle and a half given the gross misconduct with his development, seriously at one point they were trying to find a way to avoid playing him to not pay him a rookie bonus, then didn't have a goalie coach or consultant properly in place for him for a while and then didn't until he was almost 30. And when he was fantastic, fans here mostly shit all over a highly scouted and ranked draft pick that seemingly wasn't worthy or capable of that type of play in their pea brains.

They had 18 goals against the Habs that series, Fleury even had a shutout in Game 3 in Montreal. Crosby had 1 goal and 4 assists (-1 as well) in that series, I mean, we all can shit all over Fleury on that one, but that defense wasn't smart, they let Halak get deep inside their own heads and Crosby wasn't all that great in that series at all. When you're scoring barely 2.5 goals per game and your depth and scoring is basically dried up, you aren't going to win shit.

Malkin wasn't better, he had 1 goal and 2 assists and Staal had 2 goals only in that series for the 5 games he was available for. So in the end, it didn't matter if Fleury was better, the Penguins as a whole weren't great at all. They scored 2 or less in 5 out of the 7 games, had one game where they popped in 3 and then one where they had a 6 goal game. Rest, the Habs basically owned them and deserved to win, Penguins had a lot of issues and depth was definitely showing hard in that one because when Sid, Geno and Staal (in his 5 games in that series) were shut down, they didn't have much for an answer with a very done Bill Guerin basically as the other solid winger on that squad.

Guerin was 39, had 2 goals in 5 vs Habs
Dupuis had 1 goal and 3 assists
Kunitz (was there) had 2 goals and 3 assists.

Malkin as usual didn't have the best support for his line, I mean Fedotenko was back and they had Ponikarovsky at that time, major yikes for actual depth which Shero routinely f***ed up on and Bylsma kept some how making that team get to the playoffs. Feds had 0pts in the few games he was in vs the Habs, Poni had 0 goals and 2 assists. It's funny, some of the biggest misses in Bylsma's playoffs career are because the Stars got shut the f*** down, some bad line-up choices at times and then Shero not getting the depth the team needed. Bylsma was fired because of some of those stubborn line-up choices and systems he would deploy - you know, accountability. Shero was also canned.

Meanwhile, Sullivan...

Sometimes you run into a hot goalie and the Pens got Halak'd that year. Believe he stonewalled the Caps in the previous round, no?

I won't fault the Pens that playoffs, they just came off back to back Final appearances.
Similarly, I won't fault the Pens for losing to the Caps in 2018 either, even though I believe they could have won that round.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

2010-11 was far more interesting for me - Fleury was actually very good in that series vs the Lightning in all but 3 games and really, even in losing 4-3 series that year, the fact that they took the Bolts to 7 without Sid & Geno with Aaron f***ing Asham leading the team in points (tied with Talbot & Tanger) was more impressive and at least eased the sting for me for the previous season vs the whole Pens getting "Halak'd." Pens still were 4th vs the Bolts being 5th but had a better top 6 for that series.

They lost Gonchar in the off season, Sid & Geno were hurt, yeah the fact they took the Bolts to 7 was pretty cool to see out of that squad. What Bylsma had to work with and still getting them is something Sullivan can't even do and he's never had a roster like what Bylsma dealt with that season with injuries and getting what he got out of some of those players.

After Feb 4th when they lost Geno (Sid a few weeks before) - They went 15-10-4 for a 586 win% - TK and Staal went and put the offense on their shoulders, especially Kennedy who had 12 goals in 28 games.

That's with Dustin f***ing Jeffrey (before he got hurt too) and Mark Letestu in the top 9 C jobs, he had a better win % than Mike Sullivan having Sid & Geno for all 82 f***ing games the last 2 seasons.

L
O
L


I feel like that series was the one where I think it was Boucher that exploited the behind the net to the front play with maybe it was Purcell and Bergenheim? Just clowned the Pens and their depleted roster in the losses.

I fully blame Cooke not being available for being a dumbass, in 2011. People forget that Cooke was a very effective player when he wasn't being an idiot. Dude was a great forechecker and had a strong hockey IQ. I have no doubt that if Cooke plays that series, the Pens move on and potentially get Sid back.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Regardless of whether or not you blame the goalie coach or the head coach, coaching has been this team's Achilles heel since the very beginning of the Gen X years, so it's wild that we're just gonna ride that liability into the sunset.

Sullivan was legitimately excellent in ‘16 and ‘17.. been mid outside of those years but he’s a big part of those Cups imo.

 

[Andy99]

If anyone wants to be even further depressed and hopeless about the upcoming season (as I love to do, as you know), may I suggest these two reads lol:

NHL analyst crowns Pittsburgh Penguins as the biggest NHL free agency failure

TSN Overdrive host Bryan Hayes recently gave his take on the Pittsburgh Penguins, calling them the biggest NHL free agency failure.

www.sportskeeda.com

A potent power play has never been more important | TSN

The offensive end of the spectrum has become a great differentiator in the modern NHL, Travis Yost writes.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Johnny Rifle]

If anyone wants to be even further depressed and hopeless about the upcoming season (as I love to do, as you know), may I suggest these two reads lol:

To look at the glass half-full, the power play is one of the few legitimate things they have the roster to still do well. Maybe not the coaching, but firing Todd Rierdan can’t make the power play any worse.

 

[Andy99]

To look at the glass half-full, the power play is one of the few legitimate things they have the roster to still do well. Maybe not the coaching, but firing Todd Rierdan can’t make the power play any worse.

Coaching is part but I’m gonna disagree about the players…part of the reason for our poor PP is, I believe, the age of our best players…and that’s not changing…Sid and G were never great PP players but now their reaction times are slower…that half second makes a difference between getting a shot thru traffic, crisp passes and quick shot releases..we also have no one else to pick up the slack…hopefully Yager shows himself to be a great PP player and makes the team

 

[Johnny Rifle]

Coaching is part but I’m gonna disagree about the players…part of the reason for our poor PP is, I believe, the age of our best players…and that’s not changing…Sid and G were never great PP players but now their reaction times are slower…that half second makes a difference between getting a shot thru traffic, crisp passes and quick shot releases..we also have no one else to pick up the slack…hopefully Yager shows himself to be a great PP player and makes the team

i said do well, not necessarily lead the league. If the Pens rank somewhere in the middle of the power play ranks they likely make the playoffs.

The Pens have the firepower to be around 10-16 in the power play rankings, they don’t have to be the Oilers.