Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[K Fleur]

“At this point I do t even care if Crosby signs”

“I hope he asks for a trade”

“He probably already asked for a trade and the wait is for a sign and trade”

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah that is something that has always confused me here. People say non-stop that this team sucks and won't accomplish anything, but then get mad when they lose. Like if you think the team sucks, why are you expecting anything other than a loss?

I tolerate the Pirates going 75-87 because I don't expect them to be any better. With the Penguins, I don't expect them to be any better than a fringe playoff team that may make the playoffs and lose quickly in round 1.

What I don't get is the people who actively want to lose. The Pens of the past few years (and presumably this year) at least had a slight chance to make the playoffs. Some reason to watch the games and cheer. The past two years we got to watch meaningful hockey all the way up to game 82 or so.

It's gonna be uglyyyyy when that's no longer the case. People are spoiled around here because the Pens last rebuild was actually pretty quick. They aren't usually like that! Detroit hasn't made the playoffs in 8 years. The Devils have made the playoffs in only two of their last 12 seasons. Buffalo hasn't made it in 13 years lmao.

And people want to rush into that and hope for some magic lottery balls to bounce our way?

I'd rather cling to what last shreds of relevant hockey we have left than dive headlong into misery. And yes I'm sure some of you will read this and say "what relevant hockey?" But we got eliminated very late the past two seasons. It's not like this team had no chance to get in and have playoff games. This team will likely be the same and either just barely sneak in or just barely miss.

The tank is in all likelihood unavoidable once Sid retires/declines enough, whether Dubas wants to go through one or not. It will come when it comes

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

While I wish the pens would have got a comparable return they went for quantity and NHL readiness. Tippet popping off was not guaranteed. He was 23 with a career high of 18 pts. He was not seen as a top player coming back, go read the trade thread.

Also the flyers got the 32 overall pick for that first. It was literally barely a first rounder.

Giroux - Jake
32 overall pick - 44 overall pick
Tippet - Bunting
3rd - Pono (2nd Rounder)
XXX - Koivunen (2nd Rounder)
XXX - Cruz (4th Rounder)

If Bunting puts up 40 - 50 pts by the deadline and you can move him for a late 1rst or 2nd+ prospect. The value is pretty similar. But that is if they move Bunting which they won't.

That's ambitious. Dubas couldn't even secure a 1st for a perennial 40 goal, 80 point impending UFA who was one of the best playoff performers of his generation.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What I don't get is the people who actively want to lose. The Pens of the past few years (and presumably this year) at least had a slight chance to make the playoffs. Some reason to watch the games and cheer. The past two years we got to watch meaningful hockey all the way up to game 82 or so.

It's gonna be uglyyyyy when that's no longer the case. People are spoiled around here because the Pens last rebuild was actually pretty quick. They aren't usually like that! Detroit hasn't made the playoffs in 8 years. The Devils have made the playoffs in only two of their last 12 seasons. Buffalo hasn't made it in 13 years lmao.

And people want to rush into that and hope for some magic lottery balls to bounce our way?

I'd rather cling to what last shreds of relevant hockey we have left than dive headlong into misery. And yes I'm sure some of you will read this and say "what relevant hockey?" But we got eliminated very late the past two seasons. It's not like this team had no chance to get in and have playoff games. This team will likely be the same and either just barely sneak in or just barely miss.

The tank is in all likelihood unavoidable once Sid retires/declines enough, whether Dubas wants to go through one or not. It will come when it comes

I've been beating this drum non-stop. This team is going to suck badly in a few years anyway, why rush to make them terrible now? You're not any likelier to make a cup winning team by tearing down and starting the rebuild now versus letting the core retire and starting the rebuild in 2-3 years. Just enjoy the last few years of Crosby's career, because it's going to take so long for this team to ever get another guy like Crosby. It honestly may never even happen again.

I'm totally content using the last few years with Crosby in getting Crosby as many points as possible. I want to see him hit 1800 points and pass Francis for 5th all time, him being top-5 in both regular season and playoff points over his career would be an amazing legacy to finish with. I'd also love to see Malkin hit 1500 points, but I don't think he has an additional 204 points left in him. Crosby and Malkin are both 204 points away from 1800 and 1500 respectively.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Another easy way to not miss the playoffs is to build a good team lol.

I wish we tried that one sometime.

Great Actually!

Notable standouts:
LW - McGroaty: 1 goal, 2 pts
RW - Koivunen: 2 assists
C - Broz: 2 goals
C - Ponomarev 1G, hell of a motor
RHD - Brunicke
G - Murashov: 0 goals allowed Game one, 2 Goals Game Two

I am serious posting here. But this is good to hear.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think he does but it remains open to debate whether anyone would be available that fits what he'd be looking for.

I don't think he trades for any rentals or older players, but would take a shot at a Hagel type of guy if he'd become available. It's just an issue of who like that may be available?

We going to give up two 1st round picks for a complimentary player?

 

[molon labe]

What I don't get is the people who actively want to lose. The Pens of the past few years (and presumably this year) at least had a slight chance to make the playoffs. Some reason to watch the games and cheer. The past two years we got to watch meaningful hockey all the way up to game 82 or so.

It's gonna be uglyyyyy when that's no longer the case. People are spoiled around here because the Pens last rebuild was actually pretty quick. They aren't usually like that! Detroit hasn't made the playoffs in 8 years. The Devils have made the playoffs in only two of their last 12 seasons. Buffalo hasn't made it in 13 years lmao.

And people want to rush into that and hope for some magic lottery balls to bounce our way?

I'd rather cling to what last shreds of relevant hockey we have left than dive headlong into misery. And yes I'm sure some of you will read this and say "what relevant hockey?" But we got eliminated very late the past two seasons. It's not like this team had no chance to get in and have playoff games. This team will likely be the same and either just barely sneak in or just barely miss.

The tank is in all likelihood unavoidable once Sid retires/declines enough, whether Dubas wants to go through one or not. It will come when it comes

Only speaking for myself - I don't want them to lose. At the same time - "meaningful" hockey to me isn't existing as a "fringe" team (of which I don't even think they are/were...and the roster is worse each year). This just reads how some friends/family who are 90% football fans, 10% hockey fans view the Penguins. Reminds me of texts I would get about "maybe Jarry is good tonight!" "We're only 8 points out now!!!" - the ones you smile and appreciate the connection but roll your eyes to the idealism behind it.

No slight to you either way if that is, or is not you - but hockey is very, very different with regard to playoff teams. The entire existence of "get into playoffs anything happens!" persona is just foolish imo.

Yes, from the little I pop in and out of here anymore I see people who actively want us to lose. But by and large I see a lot more apathy that's crept into this board of die hards that exists only because of foolish errands by our management, coaching decisions, and roster makeup. The objective viewpoint of the Penguins themselves is mostly that people want MORE success, not less - and they see either a rebuild as the fastest way to achieve that or a new direction [insert: coaching, line combos, personnel] implemented to achieve the same.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

According to the GM and writers yes, that was to much for them. I don’t agree but that’s what they said.

These same walnuts think Sullivan is a top 5 coach. So it's clear they don't know shit.

 

[K Fleur]

Yo I traded Graves away in NHL24 franchise mode and it tricked my brain into forgetting about him in real life.

He’s still here. That f***ing sucks.

 

[Ulf5]

Yo I traded Graves away in NHL24 franchise mode and it tricked my brain into forgetting about him in real life.

He’s still here. That f***ing sucks.

Send subliminal screenshots of Graves in the other uni buried in emails to Dubas.

 

[Darren McCord]

These same walnuts think Sullivan is a top 5 coach. So it's clear they don't know shit.

The rangers gm said it

 

[Pancakes]

Only speaking for myself - I don't want them to lose. At the same time - "meaningful" hockey to me isn't existing as a "fringe" team (of which I don't even think they are/were...and the roster is worse each year). This just reads how some friends/family who are 90% football fans, 10% hockey fans view the Penguins. Reminds me of texts I would get about "maybe Jarry is good tonight!" "We're only 8 points out now!!!" - the ones you smile and appreciate the connection but roll your eyes to the idealism behind it.

No slight to you either way if that is, or is not you - but hockey is very, very different with regard to playoff teams. The entire existence of "get into playoffs anything happens!" persona is just foolish imo.

Yes, from the little I pop in and out of here anymore I see people who actively want us to lose. But by and large I see a lot more apathy that's crept into this board of die hards that exists only because of foolish errands by our management, coaching decisions, and roster makeup. The objective viewpoint of the Penguins themselves is mostly that people want MORE success, not less - and they see either a rebuild as the fastest way to achieve that or a new direction [insert: coaching, line combos, personnel] implemented to achieve the same.

Those fringe playoff teams don't win cups for sure, but we have seen bad teams make pretty deep runs into the playoffs (even making the finals) and I dunno about you but I'd rather see that than spend the entire season f5ing on how many points Gavin McKenna got that night and then being bitterly disappointed when we get out tanked by Chicago or San Jose.

I mean shit a pretty bad Ottawa team was one goal away from stopping the Pens from getting back to back Cups.

I think the chance of getting to watch fun playoff hockey is higher than you're giving credit for.

edit: But yes obviously everyone has different standards of what they want to see out of a team. I would suggest that those who are holding out for being an elite stanley cup contender or bust are gonna be bitterly disappointed about what the next 10-15 years of Pens hockey are likely to bring.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He looks good and appears to be in a healthy mindset. Should be another 70+ point season, even without Jake.

 

[SomeDude]

He looks good and appears to be in a healthy mindset. Should be another 70+ point season if he's healthy, even without Jake.

70+?

He scored 31 pts in 21 games (with a whopping 4 power play points in that span) after Jake was traded for a 121 point pace, and that includes 4-5 games where he was sulking and horrible. That's not sustainable, but there is no reason to believe he cant be a 90+ point player again if he's healthy all season.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

70+?

He scored 31 pts in 21 games after Jake was traded (121 point pace) and that includes 4-5 games where he was sulking and horrible. That's not sustainable, but there is no reason to believe he cant be a 90+ point player again if he's healthy all season.

This is my thinking, too.

If he plays all 82, I see 85-92 points.

 

[SomeDude]

This is my thinking, too.

If he plays all 82, I see 85-92 points.

If the power play could just get to average instead of bottom of the league, the fountain of youth could flow through the Mon.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

70+?

He scored 31 pts in 21 games (with a whopping 4 power play points in that span) after Jake was traded for a 121 point pace, and that includes 4-5 games where he was sulking and horrible. That's not sustainable, but there is no reason to believe he cant be a 90+ point player again if he's healthy all season.

It's more of a function of what's happening around him.

I said 83 in the thread, but I'm a cautious person by nature. Sometimes it bites me.
Don't think Rust is gonna support him like last year. 9th among right wings in the league at 5v5 P/P60, and a very strong goal count too.
And Jake had 39 even-strength points through 50 games before getting hurt. That's a ton. What is DOC or whoever gonna do in that timeframe?
Letang was super good at 5v5 scoring as well last year too, and played all the games. A huge ask to do it again at 37 with how beat up he is. He's often out there with Sid.
The bottom-six is probably improved and will demand more minutes, which will take away from the top-six. That 4th line especially...Sullivan likes Eller a lot and I think he'll like Lizotte too.
Then there's the shooting percentage. Sid was at 15.1% last year. Think it's gonna dip.
Finally, I expect our injury situation to be worse to key players.

On the positive side I could see the PP scoring about 8-10 more goals than last year. How many of those does Sid factor in on? Maybe like 5 or 6. That can only compensate for so much.

So with all that factored in, it's hard for me to project 90+. Not enough sources of things that will improve, to compensate for the things that regress.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It's more of a function of what's happening around him.

I said 83 in the thread, but I'm a cautious person by nature. Sometimes it bites me.
Don't think Rust is gonna support him like last year. 9th among right wings in the league at 5v5 P/P60, and a very strong goal count too.
And Jake had 39 even-strength points through 50 games before getting hurt. That's a ton. What is DOC or whoever gonna do in that timeframe?
Letang was super good at 5v5 scoring as well last year too, and played all the games. A huge ask to do it again at 37 with how beat up he is. He's often out there with Sid.
The bottom-six is probably improved and will demand more minutes, which will take away from the top-six. That 4th line especially...Sullivan likes Eller a lot and I think he'll like Lizotte too.
Then there's the shooting percentage. Sid was at 15.1% last year. Think it's gonna dip.
Finally, I expect our injury situation to be worse to key players.

On the positive side I could see the PP scoring about 8-10 more goals than last year. How many of those does Sid factor in on? Maybe like 5 or 6. That can only compensate for so much.

So with all that factored in, it's hard for me to project 90+. Not enough sources of things that will improve, to compensate for the things that regress.

Rust is closer to a leech off of Crosby. He doesn't support him, and usually kills cycles by moving to the wrong spot.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rust is closer to a leech off of Crosby. He doesn't support him, and usually kills cycles by moving to the wrong spot.

He supported him with his scoring about as well as you can ask for from a winger through 62 games.
The Pens don't really need improved cycling. They are decent at that relative to the rest of the league. Their perimeter work is fine. They just can't (or don't want to) get to the inside.
They need improved shooting. Rust was one of the few who brought that, with 14.2%. That was #2 on the team. It was at 9.5% the year before. So I expect it to be somewhere in the middle this season.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The rangers gm said it

I'm not arguing that anyone said it. I'm stating they're idiots that have stated a lot of dumb shit enough times for me to consider them idiots.

Also the irony of Kaapo Kakko and even Lafreniere struggling to meet expectations was because of a coach that really didn't know how to develop youth but was hired on the basis of developing youth. Like I have mentioned before, there was instances with Kaapo for example where he had a game where he produced, made a mistake and was benched in the entire 3rd period, it's like the players don't know they made a mistake, so yeah let them sit and have zero chances at redemption the rest of the game?

The irony also being, we literally had a coach that did the same dumb shit and now have an assistant that also strongly believes in that method.

Also f***ing hilarious - Kaapo and Lafreniere both got better the moment David Quinn was fired and Gallant was brought in (although this past season, Kaapo definitely took a step back under Lavi whereas Lafreniere didn't), a coach that for whatever reason seems to become unwelcome quickly, is actually a good coach for development of forwards as he will use offensive players in positions to succeed because he likes to drive offense as much as possible and will give players a chance. Still odd he hasn't gotten a shot anywhere, I'd have at least liked him as an Assistant over a twat like Quinn.

With the year Kaapo had, getting Guentzel and signing him would have been a massive feather in Drury's cap. If Drury doesn't trade for Smith and trades Kaapo that frees up 5m, then maybe they'd be more motivated to move Trouba the f*** out of town, he has a NMC but he has teams he has to report to on his list, so whether his wife's residency is an issue or not, he has to accept a trade to a team on his list (he has a 15 team no trade list and then next season 12 team no trade list, so he could have been dumped with even small retention to add Jake).

In the end, especially at this draft and where the Rangers picked, it doesn't even end up being that good of a deal really. If Dubas wanted a higher pick, he could have packaged one of the 2nd rounders to get someone he was eyeing and the Penguins ended up with 2 second round picks and 3 pretty solid prospects imo.

I think blokes here are really sleeping on Cruz Lucius, I like Koivunen and Ponomarev could be a very solid player for the Penguins (I liken him to maybe becoming our version of Sobotka with his style of play). I don't dislike the trade at all and I don't know if Kaapo would even really do well under Sullivan, if he struggled under the likes of a monumental walnut like Quinn, he'd hate playing for a bloke that inspired that style in Quinn. Also Bunting, for all the jokes here about Dubas and his guys, Bunting has been a legitimately solid player since he plucked him from Arizona to replace Hyman. He's a career 55pt pace player and he's just 29 (Turns 29 tomorrow).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yo I traded Graves away in NHL24 franchise mode and it tricked my brain into forgetting about him in real life.

He’s still here. That f***ing sucks.

I downloaded NHL24 again on my Xbox through game pass because I refuse to pay for a piece of shit game that contiuously gets worse each version and I immediately deleted it when I wasn't allowed to fire the coach as a Penguins GM.

I don't even give a shit if I was able to hire some made up bloke like "Alberto Wayne Lemieux" or some shit. I just don't want to see f***ing Sullivan's name popping up at all.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm not arguing that anyone said it. I'm stating they're idiots that have stated a lot of dumb shit enough times for me to consider them idiots.

Also the irony of Kaapo Kakko and even Lafreniere struggling to meet expectations was because of a coach that really didn't know how to develop youth but was hired on the basis of developing youth. Like I have mentioned before, there was instances with Kaapo for example where he had a game where he produced, made a mistake and was benched in the entire 3rd period, it's like the players don't know they made a mistake, so yeah let them sit and have zero chances at redemption the rest of the game?

The irony also being, we literally had a coach that did the same dumb shit and now have an assistant that also strongly believes in that method.

Also f***ing hilarious - Kaapo and Lafreniere both got better the moment David Quinn was fired and Gallant was brought in (although this past season, Kaapo definitely took a step back under Lavi whereas Lafreniere didn't), a coach that for whatever reason seems to become unwelcome quickly, is actually a good coach for development of forwards as he will use offensive players in positions to succeed because he likes to drive offense as much as possible and will give players a chance. Still odd he hasn't gotten a shot anywhere, I'd have at least liked him as an Assistant over a twat like Quinn.

With the year Kaapo had, getting Guentzel and signing him would have been a massive feather in Drury's cap. If Drury doesn't trade for Smith and trades Kaapo that frees up 5m, then maybe they'd be more motivated to move Trouba the f*** out of town, he has a NMC but he has teams he has to report to on his list, so whether his wife's residency is an issue or not, he has to accept a trade to a team on his list (he has a 15 team no trade list and then next season 12 team no trade list, so he could have been dumped with even small retention to add Jake).

In the end, especially at this draft and where the Rangers picked, it doesn't even end up being that good of a deal really. If Dubas wanted a higher pick, he could have packaged one of the 2nd rounders to get someone he was eyeing and the Penguins ended up with 2 second round picks and 3 pretty solid prospects imo.

I think blokes here are really sleeping on Cruz Lucius, I like Koivunen and Ponomarev could be a very solid player for the Penguins (I liken him to maybe becoming our version of Sobotka with his style of play). I don't dislike the trade at all and I don't know if Kaapo would even really do well under Sullivan, if he struggled under the likes of a monumental walnut like Quinn, he'd hate playing for a bloke that inspired that style in Quinn. Also Bunting, for all the jokes here about Dubas and his guys, Bunting has been a legitimately solid player since he plucked him from Arizona to replace Hyman. He's a career 55pt pace player and he's just 29 (Turns 29 tomorrow).

I hate Mike Sullivan and I'm not a fan of David Quinn and I agree that the extreme punishment approach (which was Bylsma's favorite as well) is NOT the approach that reaps the best rewards. But that said, I don't think I'm going to put the lackluster development path of Kakko and Lafreniere on David Quinn. Neither one of those guys are strong players. Laf seems to be coming around but he's also getting more time with better players and seems to be finding some confidence as he ages. Not succeeding as a 18-20yo immediately after being drafted isn't a knock on a coach. They both got time up and down the lineup. This isn't Capuano putting Nino on the 4th line for 9min circa 2011.

Drury sending us Kakko + 1st for Jake and then resigning him would have been a huge step forward for the Rangers. To the point where I'm glad they didn't. Problem really was, Jake wouldn't talk extension so that hurt value. Oh well.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It’s more likely Lafreniere simply wasn’t that good yet. Not like Gallant gave him a ton more minutes or anything compared to Quinn.

KK has been mid under 3 different coaches.

Quinn also played the shit out of Eklund in SJ last year.

Also he is the assistant. I don’t know why anyone cares about him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Matt Nieto photo during Pens media day…

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Anyone here watch both prospect games? Heard Brunicke is looking really, really good.

Will be keeping an eye on him in camp.