Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Empoleon8771]

Marino spent the first month of his career averaging just under 17min a night on the third pair. He started getting 20min a night because Letang missed a few weeks and then coinciding with that, Schultz was in and out of the line up before missing a month and a half. He took advantage of his opportunity and Sullivan certainly liked him more than some other guys we've seen, but Marino was not willingly put into that role from the jump.

I didn't say that McGroarty would be used on Crosby's line immediately, I said he'd start on L3 and eventually get moved up to Crosby's line. Same way that Marino started as a 3rd pair D and got moved up to the #3D spot.

 

[K Fleur]

All of this "he plays Sullivan hockey" stuff about Groats is turning me off of him as a player way worse than anything Farkas could have ever posted. Yeesh.

Rutger McDomSimon

 

[eXile3]

If the team’s serious about his development, and he’s been successful playing in top 6 throughout his career, that’s where he should play. This bull about making young players earn it needs to die. All you do by burying them down the lineup is put them in a position to not succeed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the team’s serious about his development, and he’s been successful playing in top 6 throughout his career, that’s where he should play. This bull about making young players earn it needs to die. All you do by burying them down the lineup is put them in a position to not succeed.

Literally every team does this if they have the depth to do it. That doesn't mean "they should be playing 7 minutes on L4 until he earns it", but every team starts rookies in lower roles to ease their way into the NHL.

It's not about "young players earning it", it's easing their way into a way more challenging league. Especially since we're talking about a guy who would be going from the NCAA to NHL.

 

[pistolpete11]

I didn't say that McGroarty would be used on Crosby's line immediately, I said he'd start on L3 and eventually get moved up to Crosby's line. Same way that Marino started as a 3rd pair D and got moved up to the #3D spot.

And I didn't say that he'd be on L4 or in the AHL.

But I don't believe they will give him a legitimate shot at LW1 which, when DOC is probably the only other option, is annoying.

Literally every team does this if they have the depth to do it. That doesn't mean "they should be playing 7 minutes on L4 until he earns it", but every team starts rookies in lower roles to ease their way into the NHL.

It's not about "young players earning it", it's easing their way into a way more challenging league. Especially since we're talking about a guy who would be going from the NCAA to NHL.

This will be their attitude, too, and it's BS. Let him compete with DOC for the job and if he plays better, he should get it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You can't just gift young players spots in the lineup even if it is probably putting them in the best position to succeed and also learn on the job from some of the greatest players to ever suit up for the franchise. What if it ends up costing them points in the standings?!? There is just too much at stake. Mike Sullivan might have to actually put some work in and we can't have that.

 

[SEALBound]

If the team’s serious about his development, and he’s been successful playing in top 6 throughout his career, that’s where he should play. This bull about making young players earn it needs to die. All you do by burying them down the lineup is put them in a position to not succeed.

I'm not totally against that idea, per se, but for as many guys who were slow walked to the lineup, we have just as many examples of guys who were ruined because they were rushed.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Groats is an average skater at absolute best and has what looks to be so-so puck skills. Regardless of the debate over what is best for his development, I'm not entirely sure Crosby even would be that wild about playing with him. He seems to favor players with quick feet who are good off the rush and can make little savvy plays with the puck down low in the OZ and around the net.

But that's a lot of reaching for a guy who basically only watched a few highlight packages, read some analysis/scouting reports from league sources and watched a shift by shift breakdown video. I'm sure you guys all know better.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Executives have a number of considerations. Their aperture can't be as narrow as some fans' "sell everything now, who cares about silly things like revenue and relationships with generational players".

FSG can absorb scorched earth, if they got on board. No issue there.
They just aren't willing to sacrifice and have unrealistic expectations with how effective a re-tool on the fly is in this league. They think it will work out like soccer, where you can just throw money at things and turn things around quickly. Not gonna happen. There's no foundation in place.

Malkin's gonna move to Russia with his family and have limited dealings with the Pens in person.
Crosby's relationship with the team isn't gonna get ruined. He's a loyalist. They've honored him for 19 years already. That's not gonna become worthless even if the last few years of his career aren't paradise with the Pens. Both of them would understand the need for a rebuild. They play for the team after all. They know where it's at.

No, Cup seeking should be the top priority right now. You don't sacrifice 5 years of organizational growth for a reason like this.

Again, are 2nd round picks and moving up a few draft spots worth burning everything to the ground? The Ducks have been getting top 10 picks for half a decade and still look like ass.

The draft has the potential to create a foundation that will lead to Cups. It led to all 5 of ours.
It led to 3 Cups for the Hawks, 2 for the Bolts, 2 for the Kings, the Avs one recently, etc...
Their current path does not have that potential. So if they care about a 6th championship, there's no choice.
You have to try. It's very simple.

Pens will have plenty of time to suck organically after Crosby retires.

Sure, there is always the option of throwing several years away for sentiment. Doesn't mean that's what they should do.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

FSG can absorb scorched earth, if they got on board. No issue there.
They just aren't willing to sacrifice and have unrealistic expectations with how effective a re-tool on the fly is in this league. They think it will work out like soccer, where you can just throw money at things and turn things around quickly. Not gonna happen. There's no foundation in place.

Malkin's gonna move to Russia with his family and have limited dealings with the Pens in person.
Crosby's relationship with the team isn't gonna get ruined. He's a loyalist. They've honored him for 19 years already. That's not gonna become worthless even if the last few years of his career aren't paradise with the Pens. Both of them would understand the need for a rebuild. They play for the team after all. They know where it's at.

No, Cup seeking should be the top priority right now. You don't sacrifice 5 years of organizational growth for a reason like this.


The draft has the potential to create a foundation that will lead to Cups. It led to all 5 of ours.
It led to 3 Cups for the Hawks, 2 for the Bolts, 2 for the Kings, the Avs one recently, etc...
Their current path does not have that potential. So if they care about a 6th championship, there's no choice.
You have to try. It's very simple.

Sure, there is always the option of throwing several years away for sentiment. Doesn't mean that's what they should do.

Red Sox finished last in their Division the previous 2 years and had the 4th and 5th best Attendance in the MLB, I mean the Penguins will suffer, but probably not as much as Dispey thinks, because for one when the Penguins had their last real rough go, it was a massive mess of so many things that Mario was trying to fix with Investors, the Arena deal was a massive push to settling things and then you had a massive boost of young fans when Crsoby entered the league and it has been that way for a while.

Pens were 19th for Attendance last season.
17th in 2022-23
10th in 2021-22
11th in 2019-20
8th in 2018-19

So I mean, they're already trending down by a lot, so this would be the best time given the current situation with the roster as well, there's always going to be a drop when you see big names retire or get traded paired with the team not being a Playoff team anymore, it's been 2yrs of it and the signs point to another year of it, clutching at the hopes of this team doing more in its current state is foolish.

But that steep drop off, the 1st round exits, missing the playoffs 2yrs in a row would get literally every coach in the league fired except for Mike Sullivan, hahaha.

Blokes that tried to compare Sullivan to Cooper were also severely out to lunch, Cooper might have missed the playoffs once and up until recently just had his first back to back 1st round exits after winning back 2 back cups.

Sullivan isn't going to miraculously fix jack shit on this team and he's shown he can't anyway, but at least the hopes of a coach using the players correctly or even making the on ice product more fun to watch is a possibility, Sullivan hasn't done that since 2018.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

All of this "he plays Sullivan hockey" stuff about Groats is turning me off of him as a player way worse than anything Farkas could have ever posted. Yeesh.

Decent around the net, stocky, can play physical, but has limited foot speed and plays Sullivan hockey? You know who else that describes, right? It rhymes with CAR.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Decent around the net, stocky, can play physical, but has limited foot speed and plays Sullivan hockey? You know who else that describes, right? It rhymes with CAR.

I've been afraid to make this joke for like a week, now lol... didn't want to put it out into the universe.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's like this place wants McGroarty to be a bust.

Making Andy look like Mr. Positive Shining Star, jeez.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You're right. My bad. Lets talk about all the other exciting things going on, instead.

How bout them Pirates? This is the year!

 

[Randy Butternubs]

McG is lesser DOC.

 

[eXile3]

I'm not totally against that idea, per se, but for as many guys who were slow walked to the lineup, we have just as many examples of guys who were ruined because they were rushed.

Then you play him in the top 6 in Wilkes. I hate it when a player is asked to do one thing most his life and then once he gets to the NHL it’s, go do this other thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

McGroarty is way too engaged to be ZAR.

Could easily see Sullivan beating the kickass attitude he has out of him though. Sullivan would probably freak if a player did what he did to Sweden fans in the WJC.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You're right. My bad. Lets talk about all the other exciting things going on, instead.

How bout them Pirates? This is the year!

You're mighty irritable lately--dare I say cranky.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Playing L3 with us is in no way indicative of if the guy can play in our top 6. L3 gets massive defensive zone starts and horrific assignments. And MS won't trust McG with that anyways, so it's moot. He'll play 8 minutes a night on L4 with the husk of Kevin Hayes. The only hope is that Bunting or O'Connor get hurt early enough in the year so he can move up before he's sent to WBS.

Which is where he should be playing anyways, in the top 6 until Bunting or O'Connor gets hurt. I'd be shocked if MS puts him with Sid to start the year unless he has to.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

FSG can absorb scorched earth, if they got on board. No issue there.
They just aren't willing to sacrifice and have unrealistic expectations with how effective a re-tool on the fly is in this league. They think it will work out like soccer, where you can just throw money at things and turn things around quickly. Not gonna happen. There's no foundation in place.

This is not FSG's approach with Liverpool.

Liverpool fans want them to spend like Manchester City and Chelsea. FSG is more methodical. It will shell out money, but only for players who fit specific criteria. It does not just throw money at things.

 

[SomeDude]

This is not FSG's approach with Liverpool.

Liverpool fans want them to spend like Manchester City and Chelsea. FSG is more methodical. It will shell out money, but only for players who fit specific criteria. It does not just throw money at things.

Ryan Graves is a thing. Unless they specifically are looking for mediocrity.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

This is not FSG's approach with Liverpool.

Liverpool fans want them to spend like Manchester City and Chelsea. FSG is more methodical. It will shell out money, but only for players who fit specific criteria. It does not just throw money at things.

Fine, whatever. Doesn't matter. Bottom line is they're pushing the Pens towards purgatory. They're prioritizing short-term ticket sales over the long-term prosperity of the team.
They're holding the team back, when they were supposed to be what propelled them forwards, towards Cups.

They talked about being this hungry, ambitious ownership group. They lied.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Red Sox finished last in their Division the previous 2 years and had the 4th and 5th best Attendance in the MLB, I mean the Penguins will suffer, but probably not as much as Dispey thinks, because for one when the Penguins had their last real rough go, it was a massive mess of so many things that Mario was trying to fix with Investors, the Arena deal was a massive push to settling things and then you had a massive boost of young fans when Crsoby entered the league and it has been that way for a while.

Pens were 19th for Attendance last season.
17th in 2022-23
10th in 2021-22
11th in 2019-20
8th in 2018-19

So I mean, they're already trending down by a lot, so this would be the best time given the current situation with the roster as well, there's always going to be a drop when you see big names retire or get traded paired with the team not being a Playoff team anymore, it's been 2yrs of it and the signs point to another year of it, clutching at the hopes of this team doing more in its current state is foolish.

The current state is what I consider the real suffering. They are throwing years away with minimal progress being made towards the end goal, while simultaneously being clearly out of reach for a Cup.
It feels hopeless. All Dubas can do with this mandate is add secondary and tertiary pieces to the farm, whenever and wherever he can. He's even winning some trades, but this isn't enough.

I will rejoice to see a 2023-24 Sharks model rebuild, with ownership and management going all-in for future Cups. At least they were honest with themselves about where they're at and picked a f***ing lane. Good on them.

It will probably be 2 more years of this nonsense, at least. 4 years total before they get serious. What a disgusting waste. There's so much they could have done for the farm in this time.
If they roll into the deep 2025 draft with only one 1st in their pocket, they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Ryan Graves is a thing. Unless they specifically are looking for mediocrity.

Can also add Sullivan's extension two years before his current deal was even up, following his fourth straight 1st round exit.

Positively frugal!

 

[BusinessGoose]

Hockey still feels like a side investment rather than a focus. This ownership group sucks at hockey.