Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Honour Over Glory]

It's funny most fans want a player to come up from within the ranks and succeed and be a success story. Guentzel, Rust, etc. But instead so many shit breathed morons want to see a bloke be a flash in the pan and predict as much with about as much stupidity as possible.

I'd be fine if Puustinen was waived and a team actually uses him properly. That'd be great. Another player Sullivan didn't think much of, goes and succeeds elsewhere.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Odd then, that when DOC is on Sid's line with Rust, that line is an absolute disaster defensively, yet he was given ample minutes with Crosby anyway and produced just barely above Puustinen getting mostly 3rd line minutes and barely any minutes to boot.

Maybe...just maybe...Sid and Geno were the issue defensively, not DOC?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Puustinen is great. Guarantee he finds a role with another team if he gets waived or moved.

It's wild people are deadset on Koivunen being a massive asset with high potential and thing Puustinen is out of the NHL in a year or two.

It also rocked when our PP was actually producing with Puustinen on it and then we removed him for Lars Eller.

Frankly, I have more confidence in Koivunen than Puustinen because of his size and past production in a league against men compared to Puustinen. I've detailed before how Koivunen has been more productive at a younger age at every level than Puustinen has been.

That doesn't mean Puustinen can't be a worthwhile player. I'm just more skeptical about him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Frankly, I have more confidence in Koivunen than Puustinen because of his size and past production in a league against men compared to Puustinen. I've detailed before how Koivunen has been more productive at a younger age at every level than Puustinen has been.

That doesn't mean Puustinen can't be a worthwhile player. I'm just more skeptical about him.

Why? He just scored at a 30 pt pace playing all over the line up?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Frankly, I have more confidence in Koivunen than Puustinen because of his size and past production in a league against men compared to Puustinen. I've detailed before how Koivunen has been more productive at a younger age at every level than Puustinen has been.

That doesn't mean Puustinen can't be a worthwhile player. I'm just more skeptical about him.

Why? He just scored at a 30 pt pace playing all over the line up?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Why? He just scored at a 30 pt pace playing all over the line up?

He had flashes. But he also had significant periods of invisibility. Some of that is usage - I won't argue that. But to me, he looks like a player that will absolutely have to play in the top nine to have any sort of impact, and potentially the top six. And I think others will push him out by being 1) more consistently productive and 2) have higher production ceilings.

My evaluation of Puustinen is a player who kicks around the NHL for a few more years, playing mostly on bad teams who have space in the top nine, and then ends up in Europe after age 28 or so.

And I'm sure you'll say, "Well, the Pens are a bad team." True. But I think they still have others that will push him out over the course of the next 12 months. I think Koivunen, Ponomarev, and Yager are tops among those who will likely surpass Puustinen either this season or by the time camp ends next season.

 

[Gurglesons]

View attachment 902462

Still don’t get it. Why would size be an issue when we’ve seen Puustinen produce at both the AHL and NHL level?

He had flashes. But he also had significant periods of invisibility. Some of that is usage - I won't argue that. But to me, he looks like a player that will absolutely have to play in the top nine to have any sort of impact, and potentially the top six. And I think others will push him out by being 1) more consistently productive and 2) have higher production ceilings.

My evaluation of Puustinen is a player who kicks around the NHL for a few more years, playing mostly on bad teams who have space in the top nine, and then ends up in Europe after age 28 or so.

And I'm sure you'll say, "Well, the Pens are a bad team." True. But I think they still have others that will push him out over the course of the next 12 months. I think Koivunen, Ponomarev, and Yager are tops among those who will likely surpass Puustinen either this season or by the time camp ends next season.

I don’t see the reason to feel like that about Puustinen. He plays hungry. I don’t think there were really any games I can recall where he looked invisible. He was probably one of our better wingers last year outside of Rust, Jake and Bunting.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Still don’t get it. Why would size be an issue when we’ve seen Puustinen produce at both the AHL and NHL level?

His production at the AHL level isn't anything particularly special for his age tbh. 42 points in 73 games at age 22, 59 points in 72 games at age 23 and 13 points in 24 games at age 24 isn't really anything noteworthy.

To compare to a similar player, Sheary put up 45 points in 58 games at age 22 and 36 points in 30 games at age 23 in the AHL. Sheary had a .92 PPG while Puustinen had a .70 PPG in their age 22 and 23 year old seasons combined.

I don’t see the reason to feel like that about Puustinen. He plays hungry. I don’t think there were really any games I can recall where he looked invisible. He was probably one of our better wingers last year outside of Rust, Jake and Bunting.

If a guy with 5 goals in 52 games is one of your better wingers, that just says your wingers suck.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Still don’t get it. Why would size be an issue when we’ve seen Puustinen produce at both the AHL and NHL level?



I don’t see the reason to feel like that about Puustinen. He plays hungry. I don’t think there were really any games I can recall where he looked invisible. He was probably one of our better wingers last year outside of Rust, Jake and Bunting.

He had a 10-game scoreless streak to go along with stretches of seven and five games with a point. 22 games without contributing.

His production at the AHL level isn't anything particularly special for his age tbh. 42 points in 73 games at age 22, 59 points in 72 games at age 23 and 13 points in 24 games at age 24 isn't really anything noteworthy.

To compare to a similar player, Sheary put up 45 points in 58 games at age 22 and 36 points in 30 games at age 23 in the AHL. Sheary had a .92 PPG while Puustinen had a .70 PPG in their age 22 and 23 year old seasons combined.

And to compare to another player, Matthew Phillips has produced more at the AHL level than Puustinen did.

Phillips can't stick in the NHL and looked dreadful in his few games with the Pens.

 

[Gurglesons]

He had a 10-game scoreless streak to go along with stretches of seven and five games with a point. 22 games without contributing.


And to compare to another player, Matthew Phillips has produced more at the AHL level than Puustinen did.

Phillips can't stick in the NHL and looked dreadful in his few games with the Pens.

I’m not sure why you are comparing him to Phillips.

The ten game sample you are citing was when Sullivan gave him an average of 7-9 minutes. Not surprised he didn’t score.

His production at the AHL level isn't anything particularly special for his age tbh. 42 points in 73 games at age 22, 59 points in 72 games at age 23 and 13 points in 24 games at age 24 isn't really anything noteworthy.

To compare to a similar player, Sheary put up 45 points in 58 games at age 22 and 36 points in 30 games at age 23 in the AHL. Sheary had a .92 PPG while Puustinen had a .70 PPG in their age 22 and 23 year old seasons combined.



If a guy with 5 goals in 52 games is one of your better wingers, that just says your wingers suck.

I’m not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. Puusy greatly outproduced what Sheary did in his rookie.

Puustinen just put up a 31 pt pace as a rookie. He looked engaged, helped out the PP, and looked fine on L3.

Why would we not give him some rope? The only argument is that Cody Glass is big and has better potential.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. Puusy greatly outproduced what Sheary did in his rookie.

Puustinen just put up a 31 pt pace as a rookie. He looked engaged, helped out the PP, and looked fine on L3.

Why would we not give him some rope? The only argument is that Cody Glass is big and has better potential.

He also played 45% of his 5v5 ice time with Crosby or Malkin, compared to about 25% for Sheary.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Maybe...just maybe...Sid and Geno were the issue defensively, not DOC?

Geno wasn't a liability defensively as much as Doc-Sid-Rust or Jake-Sid-Rust. as a matter of fact, neither was Sid's line when Rakell was on it. So maybe just maybe, some research might sort that out for you mate.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Geno wasn't a liability defensively as much as Doc-Sid-Rust or Jake-Sid-Rust. as a matter of fact, neither was Sid's line when Rakell was on it. So maybe just maybe, some research might sort that out for you mate.

I meant Rust, not Geno.

Sid and Rust were having issues defensively before DOC was on the line. So we're Sid and Jake.

It was not a banner year defensively from a goals allowed perspective for Sid no matter who was with him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I’m not sure why you are comparing him to Phillips.

The ten game sample you are citing was when Sullivan gave him an average of 7-9 minutes. Not surprised he didn’t score.



I’m not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. Puusy greatly outproduced what Sheary did in his rookie.

Puustinen just put up a 31 pt pace as a rookie. He looked engaged, helped out the PP, and looked fine on L3.

Why would we not give him some rope? The only argument is that Cody Glass is big and has better potential.

Not even worth the time to reply to their shit mate. 16 games with Geno means 45% of his 50+ games. Apparently with maths we just make shit up now.

Meanwhile Sheary basically spent the vast majority of his time with Sid. Famously being on the Sid with Kids line.

I meant Rust, not Geno.

Sid and Rust were having issues defensively before DOC was on the line. So we're Sid and Jake.

It was not a banner year defensively from a goals allowed perspective for Sid no matter who was with him.

It definitely was better when Rakell was on the line with Sid and Rust. That's a fact.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I mean, I'm all for giving him the chance and I would be over the moon if it developed into a productive year.

I don't have anything against him, I just feel he's more in the Zohorna, Simon, Scott Wilson, etc group as opposed to the Guentzel, Sheary, Rust group. I hope I'm eating these words come Dec/Jan though.

I think he's a strong candidate to outplay his cap hit, which is good enough. We don't have many of those kinda guys.
Not saying he's a top-six lock and will be for years to come, but I also believe in merit-based deployment. He's earned more.
There's no reason he should be behind 2 or 3 guys in camp for a spot. If he fails? Sure, demote him.
Sample size of failure at the NHL level first though. Like 20 games minimum.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Still don’t get it. Why would size be an issue when we’ve seen Puustinen produce at both the AHL and NHL level?



I don’t see the reason to feel like that about Puustinen. He plays hungry. I don’t think there were really any games I can recall where he looked invisible. He was probably one of our better wingers last year outside of Rust, Jake and Bunting.

He was constantly creating and while he focused too much on setting up Eller and Smith, he did need to shoot more and I think he knew that and given his insane shot.

The way blokes here hate on Puustinen is like if you and I said Yager might be about as good as Shane Endicott or maybe Angelo Esposito and if they ask why, we just pull out the most insanely idiotic arguments with dipshit percentages and excuses.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think he's a strong candidate to outplay his cap hit, which is good enough. We don't have many of those kinda guys.
Not saying he's a top-six lock and will be for years to come, but I also believe in merit-based deployment. He's earned more.
There's no reason he should be behind 2 or 3 guys in camp for a spot. If he fails? Sure, demote him.
Sample size of failure at the NHL level first though, before demotion. Like 20 games minimum.

Irony is Puustinen produced at a far better rate in his usage in his rookie year than Rust, Sheary, or O'Connor in their first season. Yet all 3 kept getting opportunities so why is it such an issue to see a player that is a cheap cap hit, drafted and developed in the system, succeed? Because it's clear a lot don't care for him to succeed and are supposedly fans of the team and prospects.

Puustinen isn't even remotely as bad defensively as many here want to make it out to be. His only usage where he was bad defensively was when he was with Smith and Geno. Smith just didn't bring anything of value to the table and we are all very aware of that. But when Puustinen was with Doc And Geno or Doc and Eller or even Smith when Eller covered for Smith's ass, that line was fine defensively. I saw a better effort from Puustinen playing defense than I did from Rust, Sid, Smith, and Jake. And that's not just opinion, it was what I saw every game Puustinen played. He's small...

So what?

There's a lot in the league his size that thrive when given an opportunity. Key word, given an opportunity, not handed. Puustinen earned an opportunity with Geno and ended up being stuck with Smith being a joke on that line.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rust isn't as good on the PK as Sullivan claims. Much worse actually. He should be removed from it. We got alternatives.
Instead funnel those minutes into the PP, and see if he can get his touch back there. Our left wall options are thin. Need someone to seize it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Irony is Puustinen produced at a far better rate in his usage in his rookie year than Rust, Sheary, or O'Connor in their first season. Yet all 3 kept getting opportunities so why is it such an issue to see a player that is a cheap cap hit, drafted and developed in the system, succeed? Because it's clear a lot don't care for him to succeed and are supposedly fans of the team and prospects.

Puustinen isn't even remotely as bad defensively as many here want to make it out to be. His only usage where he was bad defensively was when he was with Smith and Geno. Smith just didn't bring anything of value to the table and we are all very aware of that. But when Puustinen was with Doc And Geno or Doc and Eller or even Smith when Eller covered for Smith's ass, that line was fine defensively. I saw a better effort from Puustinen playing defense than I did from Rust, Sid, Smith, and Jake. And that's not just opinion, it was what I saw every game Puustinen played. He's small...

So what?

There's a lot in the league his size that thrive when given an opportunity. Key word, given an opportunity, not handed. Puustinen earned an opportunity with Geno and ended up being stuck with Smith being a joke on that line.

I agree. Don't think he is as horrible defensively as people perceive either. They're just assuming that because he's small and known for offense.
It's definitely not a strength, but he's not completely hopeless at it like Jake or Sprong or something. And it will probably get better under this coach, since that's a primary point of emphasis.

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Well when you have Lars Eller and Matthew Phillips on the roster there is only so much room for the Evgeni Malkins of the world.

Man, you just reminded me of that Eller-O’Connor OT at the end of the season when we needed points.

f*** you.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don’t mind our bottom 6 right now. I’d trade Acciari out though. Eller is good depth unless you get a decent offer or someone pushing up from WBS.

Not sure any of our young guys are really ready/good enough yet.

I don’t think our bottom 6 is any appreciably worse than a bottom 6 that has a few wb/s nobodies. It’s just more expensive and for no real return on the investment.

Why? He just scored at a 30 pt pace playing all over the line up?

Because he’s the new toy.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

I just wonder what changed in Silly-van’s philosophy that once perfectly used vets like Matt Cullen in small but effective roles allowing for youth to grow and succeed.

Our youth isn’t as good as it was back then for sure. But getting 85 points and missing the playoffs with a steady diet of Hayes and Eller is far more undesirable than watching a bunch of young players grow and learn from mistakes in a more exciting brand of hockey.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just wonder what changed in Silly-van’s philosophy that once perfectly used vets like Matt Cullen in small but effective roles allowing for youth to grow and succeed.

Our youth isn’t as good as it was back then for sure. But getting 85 points and missing the playoffs with a steady diet of Hayes and Eller is far more undesirable than watching a bunch of young players grow and learn from mistakes in a more exciting brand of hockey.

Winning breeds complacency would be my guess. When you're a random coach promoted in the interim from an AHL spot, you're more willing to try to do things to constantly adapt, evolve and be unpredictable to the opposition.

Then he happened to be behind the bench while the core he inherited wins back to back Cups--add in nonstop deific praise, and positive reinforcement in the form of contract extensions despite repeated failures, and you've got yourself an egomaniac. Stubborn to a spiteful degree and wholly averse to risk or switching things up.

 

[Andy99]

I just wonder what changed in Silly-van’s philosophy that once perfectly used vets like Matt Cullen in small but effective roles allowing for youth to grow and succeed.

Our youth isn’t as good as it was back then for sure. But getting 85 points and missing the playoffs with a steady diet of Hayes and Eller is far more undesirable than watching a bunch of young players grow and learn from mistakes in a more exciting brand of hockey.

Everyone should just contemplate this quote from the coach, as quoted in this NHL.com story lol…it’s over, people lol

“I think the vision and the direction is crystal clear, as far as what we're trying to accomplish and how we’re trying to go about it," Sullivan said. "We believe that Sid is still playing at such an elite level. Kris Letang is still playing at such an elite level. 'Karl,' 'Geno,' these guys are competitive guys and they're good players.

"We feel like we're in a position where we're trying to surround that core group with what we can to be as competitive as we can be and challenge."

Inside look at Pittsburgh Penguins | NHL.com

Hayes among those added to support Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Karlsson in bid to return to playoffs

www.nhl.com

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Off season has been just depressing, adding to the fact that Sid hasn't extended leaves me to believe these guys all want out. Sid, Geno and Letang... Let's see what happens here in the next few weeks but it's not looking good at all. I'm sure MS is a big reason why they want out!