Post-Game Talk: Pens/Stars - Grinding em down

[Gurglesons]

For what? 1.0 in cap savings? Until recent events, Kap wasn't even out producing Heinen.

Succeeding for how long until it runs completely dry again. But you could probably do Kap and swetten the pot with Heinen and do a hockey trade.

Gives us room to call up a player like Hallander or Smith.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't recall Sid and Malkin ever being on separate units longer than a handful of games. But I could be wrong... that was a long time ago. And honestly I don't think their powerplay incompetency has much to do with ego.

Split units just makes it so you are benching at least one or two of your best players on the man advantage. They are always run the exact same way when they try this... 1:30ish for unit 1 and the rest for unit 2. I would rather just be quicker on the trigger when it came to switching out top unit personnel. Like what they finally did with Rust. Or even take Letang off there and see what's up.

They basically went with their lines, and probably the fact Geno knew little English. Malone, Malkin, Sykora.

The fact this team has had more than just 2/3 supporting casts well enough to do this is ridiculous. All these gys they have traded for over the years, guys like even Zucker who counted on the PP before coming here and having it wiped from his list of duties is insane. It's an ego thing, best wanting to play with the best. Just imagine what these two have left on the table because you put all the eggs into one basket. Most times that basket produces nothing to start with considering it doesn't do much more than 25%.

Too many captains running the ship. I like the inhouse competition. Keeps guys on their toes, and the other teams. No breaks, wear down your opponent while you are fresh as a daisy.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Gives us room to call up a player like Hallander or Smith.

Maybe true, but Hallander isn't gonna make the roster, and Smith would need another D-man to go down. You'd be playing with 12 forwards available if it was a either or scenario.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I just don't think the Penguins stars are terrific "static" players. And I also don't think that they have ever been schemed particularly well even if that probably sounds like an excuse at this late date. I don't think it has anything to do with ego or selfishness. If you told Sid to play point and Malkin to play 30 seconds on the second unit they'd both do it. It would just be a dumb decision is all.

EDIT: There is also a healthy dose of "that player isn't even on the roster currently" going on, there. When Kessel was manning the LHB the powerplay magically looked lethal every night. Strange, that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I just don't think the Penguins stars are terrific "static" players. And I also don't think that they have ever been schemed particularly well even if that probably sounds like an excuse at this late date. I don't think it has anything to do with ego or selfishness. If you told Sid to play point and Malkin to play 30 seconds on the second unit they'd both do it. It would just be a dumb decision is all.

EDIT: There is also a healthy dose of "that player isn't even on the roster currently" going on, there. When Kessel was manning the LHB the powerplay magically looked lethal every night. Strange, that.

Kessel was the QB. But he wasn't afraid to attack the box and shoot on his own. Sid and Geno are.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kessel was the QB. But he wasn't afraid to attack the box and shoot on his own. Sid and Geno are.

Well... putting them on different units doesn't really help that does it?

I don't see the problem as Malkin and Crosby being over-enamored passing to each other. If they are over-passing now they will overpass on their separate, now-crappier units as well.

 

[Darren McCord]

Honestly Jake is more of a problem on the PP.

Put Carter infront instead of Jake off to the side and PP probably clicks right away,

Jake can center the 2nd pp unit

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly Jake is more of a problem on the PP.

Put Carter infront instead of Jake off to the side and PP probably clicks right away,

Jake can center the 2nd pp unit

By Carter you mean Zucker right?

It’s bizarre to me we have two top six PP guys who did very well in roles we need in Zucker and Rakell and they never see that role. Hell Zucker’s production this year is largely the same as it has been at 5v5 but he’s mooching PP assists.

 

[IcedCapp]

Sid is definitely still at elite levels. Malkin is just pretty good. Scoring is up league-wide so it's not like his numbers are super spiffy even in that role. But he's also holding up his end of the bargain at 6M and the team is currently on a nice streak so it's whatever. I just wanted to make that distinction.

It would probably help if the powerplay wasn't an embarrassment most of the season. But then again a big understood part of his role with this team is to help make the man advantage click so...

Malkin is closer to elite this season than he has been since the cup runs, IMO. Pretty good is under-selling it. Not at Sid‘s level, but also anchored by Rust, so….

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Malkin is closer to elite this season than he has been since the cup runs, IMO. Pretty good is under-selling it. Not at Sid‘s level, but also anchored by Rust, so….

Rust really has only had like six or seven good games this year huh?

Dude is supposed to be not just the marquee wing on that line (and the way some people sold him this offseason the marquee PLAYER on that line) but one of the understood difference-makers on the whole team. I can't disagree that he's been kind of a drag and I've been a Rust fan going back.

Also yeah Zucker should get the nod next on the top unit for sure. Jake's numbers seem a little deceiving to me this year. Probably a lot of empty net snipes.

 

[IcedCapp]

Rust really has only had like six or seven good games this year huh?

Dude is supposed to be not just the marquee wing on that line (and the way some people sold him this offseason the marquee PLAYER on that line) but one of the understood difference-makers on the whole team. I can't disagree that he's been kind of a drag and I've been a Rust fan going back.

Also yeah Zucker should get the nod next on the top unit for sure. Jake's numbers seem a little deceiving to me this year. Probably a lot of empty net snipes.

You remember Kessel’s time here? 1st line, 2nd, 3rd, it didn’t matter. He was Phil Kessel. He didn’t play better or worse, he was just Phil. I’ve had the same thoughts about Rust. He’s not bad with Sid or Geno, he’s just always Rust. In that way, he’d probably be best served on the 3rd line. But that’ll never happen, so I hope he can get back to and maintain the hard working, high energy play that had him working well with Geno in the past

 

[Darren McCord]

By Carter you mean Zucker right?

It’s bizarre to me we have two top six PP guys who did very well in roles we need in Zucker and Rakell and they never see that role. Hell Zucker’s production this year is largely the same as it has been at 5v5 but he’s mooching PP assists.

I mean either works. Carter is fine infront as well. Point is they just need a guy who will stay in traffic. Jake and Sid just drift to the side of the net and out. For the most part neither actually get infront.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You remember Kessel’s time here? 1st line, 2nd, 3rd, it didn’t matter. He was Phil Kessel. He didn’t play better or worse, he was just Phil. I’ve had the same thoughts about Rust. He’s not bad with Sid or Geno, he’s just always Rust. In that way, he’d probably be best served on the 3rd line. But that’ll never happen, so I hope he can get back to and maintain the hard working, high energy play that had him working well with Geno in the past

Yeah his work ethic and energy have really been the thing lacking this year. Plus some kind of brain fog. Dude has made a season+ worth of utterly mystifying, braindead decisions in just like 30 games.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Hell Zucker’s production this year is largely the same as it has been at 5v5 but he’s mooching PP assists.

If you're talking about years past, then that's not true.

Zucker 5v5 P/P60 the first 3 years: 1:68
Zucker 5v5 P/P60 in 2022-23: 2.42

It's a 30% improvement, which is massive.

 

[RSPens]

Rust really has only had like six or seven good games this year huh?

Dude is supposed to be not just the marquee wing on that line (and the way some people sold him this offseason the marquee PLAYER on that line) but one of the understood difference-makers on the whole team. I can't disagree that he's been kind of a drag and I've been a Rust fan going back.

Also yeah Zucker should get the nod next on the top unit for sure. Jake's numbers seem a little deceiving to me this year. Probably a lot of empty net snipes.

Is it any surprise that Rust has been looking better since he was dropped from PP1 and given PK time? It's where he made his mark with this team, it's where he is going to recover his form.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Is it any surprise that Rust has been looking better since he was dropped from PP1 and given PK time? It's where he made his mark with this team, it's where he is going to recover his form.

He is recovering his form. It is very clear.

 

[Gurglesons]

Is it any surprise that Rust has been looking better since he was dropped from PP1 and given PK time? It's where he made his mark with this team, it's where he is going to recover his form.

They called this out on the broadcast which I was surprised by.

Honestly Rust has been great on the PK since they put him back there.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Is it any surprise that Rust has been looking better since he was dropped from PP1 and given PK time? It's where he made his mark with this team, it's where he is going to recover his form.

He seems to be. His game has been on a noticeable uptick. Though to be fair anything is better than the whole "WTF is this guy actually doing?" stuff he was pulling most of the year up until recently.

Rust at his best has a non-stop motor. And we're seeing that more since his role has been appropriately adjusted.

 

[RSPens]

They called this out on the broadcast which I was surprised by.

Honestly Rust has been great on the PK since they put him back there.

I noticed that too, but if you were to go back a few weeks to when the Pens were losing, I mentioned on here that he needs to get dropped from the PP and put on the PK. I probably even suggested that he get dropped to the third. Not going to lie, I was patting myself on the back when the broadcast guys were saying the same thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you're talking about years past, then that's not true.

Zucker 5v5 P/P60 the first 3 years: 1:68
Zucker 5v5 P/P60 in 2022-23: 2.42

It's a 30% improvement, which is massive.

Fair point!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I noticed that too, but if you were to go back a few weeks to when the Pens were losing, I mentioned on here that he needs to get dropped from the PP and put on the PK. I probably even suggested that he get dropped to the third. Not going to lie, I was patting myself on the back when the broadcast guys were saying the same thing.

Yeah I thought yanking him off the top unit was arguably even more smack-you-in-the-face obvious than breaking up GCR.

...OK maybe a slight exaggeration but only slight.

 

[RSPens]

Yeah I thought yanking him off the top unit was arguably even more smack-you-in-the-face obvious than breaking up GCR.

...OK maybe a slight exaggeration but only slight.

Sometimes coaches tend to over think things and try to big brain their way to wins. Sometimes they just need to follow the KISS principal. It doesn't always have to be 3D Chess, sometimes checkers gets the job done.

 

[IcedCapp]

Yeah his work ethic and energy have really been the thing lacking this year. Plus some kind of brain fog. Dude has made a season+ worth of utterly mystifying, braindead decisions in just like 30 games.

I have no clue what it’s like to be an elite athlete… or an elite anything, really, but I do wonder if he had mentally checked out of Pit, assumed he’d be making bank elsewhere, coasting through life, and he’s still trying to get back into the right mind set

 

[Gurglesons]

I have no clue what it’s like to be an elite athlete… or an elite anything, really, but I do wonder if he had mentally checked out of Pit, assumed he’d be making bank elsewhere, coasting through life, and he’s still trying to get back into the right mind set

I think it is actually the opposite. Rust struggled the first year of his 3.5 contract too and said he was trying to do too much. It seems like when he plays with GCR and the 1st powerplay he plays the game like a shitty version of Jake when that isn't his game at all.

 

[IcedCapp]

I think it is actually the opposite. Rust struggled the first year of his 3.5 contract too and said he was trying to do too much. It seems like when he plays with GCR and the 1st powerplay he plays the game like a shitty version of Jake when that isn't his game at all.

While watching him play, it never occurred to me that he was trying to do too much. Makes sense