Confirmed with Link: Pens sign F Nick Spaling to 2-year, $4.4M contract (2.2AAV)

[penguins2946*]

It's great to know how many Pens fans are familiar with Spaling. Guess we overpaid for a 4th liner. Thanks JR!

This thread should get bumped halfway through the season and a lot of people here are going to look dumb. I'm not saying he'll be a 30 goal top-6 winger, but the overreactions here are a joke. He's a defensive 3rd liner. 3rd line RFAs tend to go for around $2 million (Kennedy and King are 2 off the top of my head). There is no reason to get your panties in a bunch over the dollar total.

 

[mpp9]

For sure. I'm just not sure I see how we are going to do that. It can be done in theory, but until it happens, this looks like our roster.

We can't make a trade during the season? I look at Maatta's return and a possible Ehrhoff re-signing in January as logical times to deal from our strength.

Or if Dupuis shows he's back playing reasonably well, he could be part of a deal or a cap dump so we can make a separate deal based around futures.

We're in a good spot IMO. As long as Sutter signs longterm or is dealt if he won't, I'm happy.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's great to know how many Pens fans are familiar with Spaling. Guess we overpaid for a 4th liner. Thanks JR!

This thread should get bumped halfway through the season and a lot of people here are going to look dumb. I'm not saying he'll be a 30 goal top-6 winger, but the overreactions here are a joke. He's a defensive 3rd liner. 3rd line RFAs tend to go for around $2 million (Kennedy and King are 2 off the top of my head). There is no reason to get your panties in a bunch over the dollar total.

Well right but King signed for 1.95 for 3 years. I'd gladly take that for Spaling and even more gladly take it for King.

 

[Quatro Quatro]

You never said you wanted Glass but then you lumped him in with Neal for some odd reason. The trade was Neal for Hornqvist + Spaling. Just because Sather is a moron and overpaid Glass doesn't make it a valid comparison.

I'm not even mad about the trade, but JR did say this trade brought in some cap flexibility. That turns out to not be very true. Also, we shouldn't have had to overpay Spalng, if you think this is an overpayment, because he was an RFA. Hindsight is 20/20 but if you could have gotten Winnik for 1.1 and hung onto Neal, would we be better off?

Kunitz-Crosby-Downie
Bennett-Malkin-Neal
Winnik-Sutter-Dupuis
Comeau-Goc-WBS kid

Not for some odd reason. Put anyone in to that spot. I don't care who it is. The point is, it's going to cost a lot in free agency to add some garbage option.

And why would people prefer Neal/Stempniak? Haven't we seen that that doesn't work?

 

[Shady Machine]

We can't make a trade during the season? I look at Maatta's return and a possible Ehrhoff re-signing in January as logical times to deal from our strength.

Or if Dupuis shows he's back playing reasonably well, he could be part of a deal or a cap dump so we can make a separate deal based around futures.

We're in a good spot IMO. As long as Sutter signs longterm or is dealt if he won't, I'm happy.

All of those things are possible scenarios, I'm just used to a GM that doesn't deal veterans. JR traded Neal, but I'm not sure how likely he is to trade a vet like Martin in the middle of the season (assuming you meant him if Ehrhoff re-signs).

 

[Shady Machine]

Not for some odd reason. Put anyone in to that spot. I don't care who it is. The point is, it's going to cost a lot in free agency to add some garbage option.

And why would people prefer Neal/Stempniak? Haven't we seen that that doesn't work?

But I just gave you 2 'garbage options' that I prefer to Hornqvist+Spaling and they cost less. So...

 

[mpp9]

As opposed to Spaling's whopping 4 full seasons, only 1 of which he produced 3rd line numbers?

I'm not saying King's a world beater, but he's proven just as much, if not more, than Spaling (including his playoff performances). And if anything, his type of player (huge guy who actually chipped in 15 goals to boot) should be more enticing than an average sized, run of the mill third liner. Yet Spaling is now being paid more than King.

IMO, Spaling should have been paid no more than about $1.8 million on his current term. If they were going to give him $2.2, it should have either been a 1 year deal so he proves himself and is still RFA when the deal is up (I believe), or 3 year deal so it takes out one of his UFA years.

Saving 750k from Neal to Hornqvist and signing a bunch of cost effective UFAs allows us to spend a a couple hundred K extra on a 3rd liner JR is high on.

It's obvious he likes the guy.

 

[penguins2946*]

Well right but King signed for 1.95 for 3 years. I'd gladly take that for Spaling and even more gladly take it for King.

The $250,000 difference isn't significant though. People here are acting like we just paid Comeau $2.2 million, which is obsene.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Or we could, ya know, extend him. He's 25. It'd be a nice surprise if any of our forwards aside from Kapanen/Bennett turned into a reliable top 9 player.

It's possible. We should be able to promote some guys from within on much better deals though. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a couple 3rd liners out of Sundqvist, Blueger, Archibald, Wilson, Rust, Payerl, and Megna.

 

[drpepper]

Not for some odd reason. Put anyone in to that spot. I don't care who it is. The point is, it's going to cost a lot in free agency to add some garbage option.

And why would people prefer Neal/Stempniak? Haven't we seen that that doesn't work?

I don't think Winnik and Stempniak are garbage from a UFA prospective (although other bottom 6 guys were overpaid). I also think several RFAs took more attractive contracts (although I find others interesting - Eller for example).

A new coach completely changes things in my mind. Plus, Neal could still be traded. Just that Spaling doesn't seem like a good value add at this point.

 

[mpp9]

All of those things are possible scenarios, I'm just used to a GM that doesn't deal veterans. JR traded Neal, but I'm not sure how likely he is to trade a vet like Martin in the middle of the season (assuming you meant him if Ehrhoff re-signs).

JR isn't Shero. That should be quite obvious at this point. Value is secondary to building a team.

Despres will be battling Scuderi in camp for a top 4 spot with Maatta out. If Scuderi is as bad as everyone makes him out to be, then it shouldn't be very hard for him to get some big minutes to start the season. If he thrives, and Maatta comes back ready to go, one of Scuds/Martin becomes expendable.

I'd still look at the Avs as a potential trading partner for McGinn. They could use a non hobbled Dupuis and another upgrade on defense.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Saving 750k from Hornqvist to Neal and signing a bunch of cost effective UFAs allows us to spend a a couple hundred K extra on a 3rd liner JR is high on.

It's obvious he likes the guy.

He likes him so much he only signed him for 2 years, instead of attempting to add another year or two to take care of some of his UFA years?

 

[Quatro Quatro]

But I just gave you 2 'garbage options' that I prefer to Hornqvist+Spaling and they cost less. So...

I don't think Winnik is a better option. I get what you're saying and garbage might have been a little strong but I just prefer changing a team that doesn't work as opposed to basically keeping the same roster.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's possible. We should be able to promote some guys from within on much better deals though. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a couple 3rd liners out of Sundqvist, Blueger, Archibald, Wilson, Rust, Payerl, and Megna.

I wouldn't think it unreasonable, either.

But, then again... part of the reason this team "has" to make deal like this exact one is because they've utterly failed to pull even competent depth players out of the draft for something like 8 years. We were probably saying something very similar about a whole other group of (now busted) guys years ago.

 

[Shady Machine]

The $250,000 difference isn't significant though. People here are acting like we just paid Comeau $2.2 million, which is obsene.

Significance aside (although I'd argue getting the 3rd year is pretty significant), it doesn't change the fact that we got a worse deal than the Kings did for King. That's what I'm comparing this deal to so I'm slightly disappointed. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We can't make a trade during the season? I look at Maatta's return and a possible Ehrhoff re-signing in January as logical times to deal from our strength.

Or if Dupuis shows he's back playing reasonably well, he could be part of a deal or a cap dump so we can make a separate deal based around futures.

We're in a good spot IMO. As long as Sutter signs longterm or is dealt if he won't, I'm happy.

If that's the standard though, it's nothing new. We've regularly addressed weaknesses at the deadline, including the last couple years.

 

[mpp9]

It's possible. We should be able to promote some guys from within on much better deals though. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a couple 3rd liners out of Sundqvist, Blueger, Archibald, Wilson, Rust, Payerl, and Megna.

I don't think it's unreasonable to hope. I think it's a stretch to assume. But others who watch WBS closely would know what are reasonable expectations in that time frame.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't think Winnik is a better option. I get what you're saying but I doubt Neal/Winnik would be a better option.

At least we can agree to disagree.

 

[Quatro Quatro]

At least we can agree to disagree.

Yup

 

[mpp9]

If that's the standard though, it's nothing new. We've regularly addressed weaknesses at the deadline, including the last couple years.

Didn't say deadline. I singled out Maatta's return and Ehrhoff possibly being re-signed in January.

And JR has shown he's willing to deal roster players. Shero wasn't. That gives you far more trade possibilities.

 

[Shady Machine]

JR isn't Shero. That should be quite obvious at this point. Value is secondary to building a team.

Despres will be battling Scuderi in camp for a top 4 spot with Maatta out. If Scuderi is as bad as everyone makes him out to be, then it shouldn't be very hard for him to get some big minutes to start the season. If he thrives, and Maatta comes back ready to go, one of Scuds/Martin becomes expendable.

I'd still look at the Avs as a potential trading partner for McGinn. They could use a non hobbled Dupuis and another upgrade on defense.

And if Scuderi is as bad as everyone makes him out to be, why would another team want him? We no longer have the option of shipping him to teams that need to reach the cap floor.

If McGinn is your top 6 winger solution, then your expectations are set too low IMO. He's a valuable player, but another tweener.

 

[mpp9]

He likes him so much he only signed him for 2 years, instead of attempting to add another year or two to take care of some of his UFA years?

Why would Spaling sign for that number longer than 2 years?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wouldn't think it unreasonable, either.

But, then again... part of the reason this team "has" to make deal like this exact one is because they've utterly failed to pull even competent depth players out of the draft for something like 8 years. We were probably saying something very similar about a whole other group of (now busted) guys years ago.

I attribute that more to a lack of drafting forwards and putting a premium on college prospects with longer developments. A lot of college prospects drafted under Shero from '09 on will be getting their chances over the next year or two, in this organization or others.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

The way you get cheaper third liners is that you draft them. In 8 years Shero only drafted 1 such player, which required the second-overall pick.

Salary of the third line necessarily is what it is. I'm far happier paying $9 million for a third line than I was watching Kobasew or Gibbons wasting a roster spot for $800k.

Agreed on both counts. And hopefully we have some homegrown talent filling in our 3rd line when this contract expires, and someone else can pay the 4M+ for a third liner.

Initially I was tweaked they did two years, but they clearly see some upside in the guy and think he might outperform the deal, and also don't feel the need to commit to a bottom six guy for a long term.

Shero should have stuck with shorter term deals on the Dupuis and Scuds of the world, and we'd be in a much better situation now. Even if they walked due to that shorter term.

 

[Scuz39]

Significance aside (although I'd argue getting the 3rd year is pretty significant), it doesn't change the fact that we got a worse deal than the Kings did for King. That's what I'm comparing this deal to so I'm slightly disappointed. I don't think that's unreasonable.

It seems to me that the King deal was partially a player taking a pay cut so maybe it isn't an entirely fair comparison.