Confirmed with Link: Pens sign F Nick Spaling to 2-year, $4.4M contract (2.2AAV)

[Gooch]

I remember when the trade went down and one of the things people were saying were that we got a good cheap bottom 6 option in Spaling. I don't see this is being a cheap option at all and seems like we're allocating a lot more than we should on the role he'll be filling.

I don't grasp advanced hockey stats, I am not going to pretend to. What is the draw on this guy? What makes him worth this money, what makes him better than Vitale to that degree or basically any WBS fill in at league minimum? What about come september when teams do their waiver dumps, would we not be able to find a comparable player there for the league minimum?

His regular stats just don't warrant his pay, I havent seen him play but I havent heard anything extraordinary about him so... what on earth makes him worth that money?

 

[mpp9]

I'd say the former is very much dependent on the latter.

This team as is could have lost to the Rangers in the 2nd round too. Our bottom six will actually contribute. And it's not like Neal did much of anything during last season's run.

Another forward brought in makes us a much superior team IMO.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

This team as is could have lost to the Rangers in the 2nd round too. Our bottom six will actually contribute. And it's not like Neal did much of anything doing last season's run.

Another forward brought in makes us a much superior team IMO.

Depending very much on the forward and what it will cost, I could see it. I do like our depth signings, but right now, I think we're a worse team depending on too many dominoes falling our way.

As for Neal, my argument about his being useless without Malkin is well-documented.

 

[Shady Machine]

I put a lot of value on the top 6, and I think the bottom 6 and defense are helped mostly by virtue of additions by subtraction that were pretty much done deals regardless. Griess will probably be better than Zatkoff, but he was really our 3rd string forced into back-up duty. Season-ending injuries to Dupuis and Vokoun make last year's team seem a lot more suspect than it was.

The coaching staff's a wildcard that could pay dividends but I was speaking specifically about the roster.

Addition by subtraction AND replacing those subtracting pieces with better players. Letting go of Orpik and Niskanen and replacing them with Ehrhoff is a big coup. Watching Glass get paid stupid money (and Vitale to an extent) and bringing in Downie, Goc, and Comeau is fairly impressive IMO.

I think you are underselling what JR has done.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Addition by subtraction AND replacing those subtracting pieces with better players. Letting go of Orpik and Niskanen and replacing them with Ehrhoff is a big coup. Watching Glass get paid stupid money (and Vitale to an extent) and bringing in Downie, Goc, and Comeau is fairly impressive IMO.

I think you are underselling what JR has done.

Maybe I'm just not easy to impress. Or a lot more cynical.

But most of that all seems like common sense moves, to me. Though I can understand mistaking common sense for brilliance, considering we've seen very little of the former the last few years.

I will say that getting Ehrhoff to come aboard at that price was quite nice, though.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Addition by subtraction AND replacing those subtracting pieces with better players. Letting go of Orpik and Niskanen and replacing them with Ehrhoff is a big coup. Watching Glass get paid stupid money (and Vitale to an extent) and bringing in Downie, Goc, and Comeau is fairly impressive IMO.

I think you are underselling what JR has done.

Well, Goc was actually on the team at the end of last season, so let's not call that an improvement. I think that the Neal trade was a loss and that Nisky and Ehrhoff are a wash. Glass and Orpik were additions by subtraction that I believe were going to happen regardless (your mileage may vary).

Downie and Comeau are good guys to take fliers on, but I still figure it's a net loss at this point.

 

[mpp9]

Depending very much on the forward and what it will cost, I could see it. I do like our depth signings, but right now, I think we're a worse team depending on too many dominoes falling our way.

As for Neal, my argument about his being useless without Malkin is well-documented.

I like our offseason. Dumping dead weight. Avoiding overpaying players. Getting younger and harder to play against.

I think our forward acquisition will depend on a few things we won't know until the season starts. Can PH fit with Sid? Is Downie back in form? Is Bennett's wrist weaker than a 10 year old's? If those three can be rotated in the top 6 at will, then I'm fine with a less than major target brought in.

If we lack skill, then at least have players who bring something else to the table. And make Sid/Geno better.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well, Goc was actually on the team at the end of last season, so let's not call that an improvement. I think that the Neal trade was a loss and that Nisky and Ehrhoff are a wash. Glass and Orpik were additions by subtraction that I believe were going to happen regardless (your mileage may vary).

Downie and Comeau are good guys to take fliers on, but I still figure it's a net loss at this point.

It does seem some folks are including Goc as an upgrade to the lineup over last year, despite the fact he was here last year.

In any case, the bottom six now has guys like Downie, Comeau, Spaling, to replace the likes of Glass, Vitale, Kobasew and Pyatt. Obviously an upgrade, but not enough of one to ignore the fact the top six actually got worse, and arguably by a wide margin.

Total transactions so far:
Out: Neal, Jokinen, Vitale, Glass, Pyatt, Kobasew, Stempniak
In: Hornqvist, Spaling, Downie, Comeau

So far, that's a modest upgrade in bottom six talent for a modest downgrade in top six talent.

On defense is where I think the best moves were made. Bringing in Ehrhoff to replace Niskanen, and just letting Orpik walk so that Despres can play instead, are two moves that made the blueline better, IMO. But the forwards, as a collective unit, I'm not sold yet.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Well, Goc was actually on the team at the end of last season, so let's not call that an improvement. I think that the Neal trade was a loss and that Nisky and Ehrhoff are a wash. Glass and Orpik were additions by subtraction that I believe were going to happen regardless (your mileage may vary).

Downie and Comeau are good guys to take fliers on, but I still figure it's a net loss at this point.

You really think that Nisky and Ehrhoff are a wash? I don't see it. Ehrhoff is a better player, and always has been.

Glass' agent said they had preliminary discussions before the GM change, so I don't know if you can assume Glass was on his way out regardless.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Ehrhoff is better than Niskanen. It is a significant upgrade, not a wash. Even if you want to argue that they are a wash at even strength (they aren't, Ehrhoff is better), Ehrhoff is much much much better on the powerplay.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Wow....!

Sutter is gone.

Can't believe this signing.

 

[drpepper]

It does seem some folks are including Goc as an upgrade to the lineup over last year, despite the fact he was here last year.

In any case, the bottom six now has guys like Downie, Comeau, Spaling, to replace the likes of Glass, Vitale, Kobasew and Pyatt. Obviously an upgrade, but not enough of one to ignore the fact the top six actually got worse, and arguably by a wide margin.

Total transactions so far:
Out: Neal, Jokinen, Vitale, Glass, Pyatt, Kobasew, Stempniak
In: Hornqvist, Spaling, Downie, Comeau

So far, that's a modest upgrade in bottom six talent for a modest downgrade in top six talent.

On defense is where I think the best moves were made. Bringing in Ehrhoff to replace Niskanen, and just letting Orpik walk so that Despres can play instead, are two moves that made the blueline better, IMO. But the forwards, as a collective unit, I'm not sold yet.

I don't really consider Kobasew an out considering he was on a one year contract and had been waived to the AHL. I also don't think Pyatt really is an out as he was a desperation pick-up when the Pens just needed a warm body.

So my accounting book looks more like:

Forwards Out: Neal, Jokinen, Stempniak, Gibbons, Vitale, Glass (-3 skill players -3 bottom 6ers)
Forwards In: Hornqvist, Spaling, Downie, Comeau (+1 skill player +3 bottom 6ers)
No change: Crosby, Malkin, Kunitz, Dupuis, Sutter, Bennett, Goc, Adams

In my mind Neal, Jokinen and Stempniak are better than Spaling, Downie and Comeau although clearly with Jokinen contract terms were not possible. Vitale and Glass are worse than any of the four that came in provided Downie the hockey player shows up, and I am having a hard time categorizing Gibbons worth. So is losing and replacing the bottom 6ers of Glass, Vitale and Gibbons sufficient to balance losing and not replacing the skill of the top end in Neal, Jokinen and Stempniak?

EDIT Forgot Gibbons. I would place in the bottom 6er category is in spite of his forced role because of injuries. But let's not pretend that a top 6 with two of Downie, Bennett, Dupius and Spaling is a vast improvement over a top 6 with two of Bennett, Dupuis and Jokinen.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Gibbons was on our top line in the playoffs last year. When he wasn't, its because Geno was with Sid and Sutter was our 2nd line center. Lets not overstate the quality of last year's top 6.

 

[The Tang]

I was hoping he'd sign for under 2 but its hardly a cap killing deal. I'm more surprised in general what third liners are getting.

Erhoff is definitely and upgrade over niskanen and despres getting orpik's ice time is also a plus. If we can just get rid of scuderi our blue line would be better through addition by subtraction.

I don't think we're much better than last year but depthand grit are definitely better which we needed.

All in all I've been fairly impressed what JR has done given what little he had to work with

 

[mpp9]

Wow....!

Sutter is gone.

Can't believe this signing.

Did you care to look at cap geek?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Did you care to look at cap geek?

No. I made the mistake of thinking 4.4 was his actual cap hit. I should look closer before reacting.

Jumped the gun.

 

[PensPlz]

Wow....!

Sutter is gone.

Can't believe this signing.

He's probably not but I wouldn't shed a tear if he were. Only thing worse than a mediocre third line center is a mediocre center that clearly doesn't even want to play here.

 

[billybudd]

You really think that Nisky and Ehrhoff are a wash? I don't see it. Ehrhoff is a better player, and always has been.

Glass' agent said they had preliminary discussions before the GM change, so I don't know if you can assume Glass was on his way out regardless.

I've been one of Niskanen's biggest defenders for several years and I find the notion that he's anywhere near as good as Ehrhoff to be completely nuts.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Depending very much on the forward and what it will cost, I could see it. I do like our depth signings, but right now, I think we're a worse team depending on too many dominoes falling our way.

As for Neal, my argument about his being useless without Malkin is well-documented.

You can't compare this team, before camp has even started, with last year's post deadline team. Apples and oranges. Especially since JR has specifically stated he won't have the team he wants put together until the trade deadline.

 

[Sam Spade]

I've been one of Niskanen's biggest defenders for several years and I find the notion that he's anywhere near as good as Ehrhoff to be completely nuts.

He might be better but he is another soft Dman who ultimately won't help anyone win it all.

Spaling is another insignificant player in the league, but unfortunately these guys are now getting paid 2.0-2.5 per. Pens had to pay him this amount one way or the other (arbitration).

 

[clefty]

Something to consider is that Dwight King was making only 750k last season. So when the team you've just won a championship offers you a new deal with an annual raise of $1.2 million, that's got to sound pretty damn good.

Spaling on the other hand made double that last season. We didn't have the room to maneuver that Los Angeles had.

Filing for arbitration was a smart move on his agents part, because how strong a case can a team who's never seen you dress in their uniform build against you? Never mind the fact they traded one of the best young goalscorers in the league to get you. Spaling's prospects in front of an arbiter were potentially quite solid.

So he was at 2.8 million and we were at 1.65. Neither seems reasonable to me, so split the difference at 2.2 and call it day. Makes sense from where I'm sitting.

 

[iFishyHD]

He might be better but he is another soft Dman who ultimately won't help anyone win it all.

Spaling is another insignificant player in the league, but unfortunately these guys are now getting paid 2.0-2.5 per. Pens had to pay him this amount one way or the other (arbitration).

LA could use an Ehrhoff, and they just won the championship. Spaling for 2.2 is good, not great, not terrible. You are aware the rising cap plays into what these guys make right?

 

[RehnX]

Alright, let's play make believe here for a second, if Sutter is now traded as part of a package for a top 6 winger, do you all realize how good the value is? Probably not, because most of you probably haven't actually watched him play.

Or in the event of injuries, being able to slot Sutter up and still have a good 3rd line center? I know you all have an obsession with "the kids", but I prefer my competitive team to have players that have proven they can play and stick around in the big leagues.

 

[mpp9]

https://twitter.com/JoshYohe_Trib
@JoshYohe_Trib 26m
Spoke with Rutherford earlier today: Said Sutter deal "should be done soon." Called Spaling "very useful." Isn't worried about cap situation.

Figured I'd put it in this thread too. I'm gonna guess a 4 year deal. Year 1 near his QO, year 2 near Eller/Berglund caphit, and years 3 and 4 in the 4-5 mil range which is what he'd see in free agency. We get a manageable caphit. Sutter gets UFA money.

 

[wej20]

Developing our own forwards would go along way to alleviating these cap problems.