Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[CheckingLineCenter]

Tbh, makes no sense Rust would even get a haul since he has a a full NMC. Smells like Yohe/Rossi not thinking anything through.

I get keeping him if it’s between getting a 3rd and keeping him.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

He finally got to his game.

In all seriousness do the press ever ask Sullivan about this? EK and Petterson were a killer pair. They get broken up and now everyone f***ing sucks. Wasn’t it better to have at least one lights out blueline duo and just try to “fix” Ryan Graves some other way?

I think back to 2017-2018. If we had Brayden Yager sitting in the CHL and Taylor Hall as a pending UFA was available I would have shipped the kid out without hesitation. If Vancouver doesn't want to offer a 1st or a recently picked 1st round prospect they can pound sand.

I 100% would do this and honestly Taylor Hall 5 years ago is probably a really good comparable if a little lower as Guentzel does have that playoff resume.

didn't know other teams could do this

Weird firing a coach with a couple years left. Wild.

I think with the cap jumping, teams will feel confident they can keep him around.

I don't think players of Jake's caliber get dealt as just rentals. I asked earlier, but I genuinely can't remember the last time a <30yr old, ~40g forward was dealt and wasn't extended.

Meier had an extremely underwhelming post-TDL/playoff showing for the Devils and they still handed him a colossal deal. I think whoever trades for Jake will do so with every intention of re-signing him. Which is why I think Vegas and Edmonton are not front runners, nor the top of Dubas' list of ideals.

Agreed. A team trading for him would want to sign him most likely and possibly use that 8th year to bring AVV down.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Probably because the same sources that are used to quote the cost of Guentzel, etc, are saying teams really like Rust. You can’t follow them like gospel for some news and reject them for other. They either know things or they don’t.

Are they? Josh Yohe can be claiming that teams really like Rust, but I don't think he has any credibility at this point.

And beyond that, it doesn't particularly matter if other teams like Rust if he won't waive his NMC to go there. We've seen time and time again that players with NMCs get shitty value relative to expectations, I think Rust would be in the same position.

 

[Pens1566]

Isn’t he Sid’s agent’s son? Yeah, I could see him being the primary target.

I hope Vancouver pays out the *** just for the hilarity of watching their posters backpedal and shift to how giving up the world was actually a steal for them.

I hope Vancouver either pays a TON, or he goes to VGK for similar and then wrecks VAN in the playoffs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh, makes no sense Rust would even get a haul since he has a a full NMC. Smells like Yohe/Rossi not thinking anything through.

I get keeping him if it’s between getting a 3rd and keeping him.

Yeah this is exactly it. Do I think they could trade Rust? Of course, but the return would probably be pretty terrible.

 

[SomeDude]

Are they? Josh Yohe can be claiming that teams really like Rust, but I don't think he has any credibility at this point.

And beyond that, it doesn't particularly matter if other teams like Rust if he won't waive his NMC to go there. We've seen time and time again that players with NMCs get shitty value relative to expectations, I think Rust would be in the same position.

Friedman also reported teams have interest in Rust but Pens are honoring his NTC and haven’t asked him to waive.

Who cares what you get back honestly. We know we can lose with him. Why not find out if we can win with someone else getting that cap space.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Friedman also reported teams have interest in Rust but Pens are honoring his NTC and haven’t asked him to waive.

Who cares what you get back honestly. We know we can lose with him. Why not find out if we can win with someone else getting that cap space.

If they get back a shitty contract and a nothing pick, what's even the point of trading him?

They had to take back Matheson's huge deal to move Hornqvist, I don't see why they'd be able to move Rust without taking back another big contract. Teams aren't lining up to trade for a 5 year, $5 million AAV deal with a NMC for a 32 year old complementary winger.

 

[Sike Mullivan]

I don't understand how people simultaneously shit on Rust as "replaceable", "mediocre with flashes of good" or whatever else, but also act like he has value while signed long-term with a NMC.

I'm not going to argue that they shouldn't try to trade Rust, but I'm pretty confident any Rust trade would be pretty shitty for the Penguins. He's a soon to be 32 year old winger signed long-term with a NMC and he's currently on IR with an injury. I don't think they'd get great offers for Rust at all, because Rust can pick his location and basically make the bidding whoever he wants.

I think he would be very valuable for a team currently in their win now window. Maybe a team with a prospect similar to Rust's type who hasnt made jump as fast as they need him to? That is the type of deal id be exploring if I am moving Rust, and if its not there try again next year. Not necessarily looking to move him, but would also be listening to offers.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Who cares what you get back honestly. We know we can lose with him. Why not find out if we can win with someone else getting that cap space.

Eh I get wanting out of his deal but little to zero chance you replace his production for his cap hit via FA.

I’d def move him for a “haul” though. Just not sure if it exists.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think he would be very valuable for a team currently in their win now window. Maybe a team with a prospect similar to Rust's type who hasnt made jump as fast as they need him to? That is the type of deal id be exploring if I am moving Rust, and if its not there try again next year. Not necessarily looking to move him, but would also be listening to offers.

But again, Rust has a full NMC and can pick his location. That kills his value in a trade.

Again, he's a soon to be 32 year old complementary winger signed long-term with a NMC. I just can't see any situation where he brings back anything but another big contract. It would be the Hornqvist for Matheson trade all over again. And even with Hornqvist, the Penguins forced his hand to make that trade by threatening to waive him if he didn't accept the trade. They can't do that with Rust.

 

[Turin]

Ideal:

Trade Guentzel for two prospects
Trade Jarry for a surprise haul
Trade Smith and Eller and Graves
Finish bottom 10
Fire Sullivan
Sign Guentzel in offseason

Go into next season with new coaches, a new goalie and a ton of new prospects.

 

[Gurglesons]

But again, Rust has a full NMC and can pick his location. That kills his value in a trade.

Again, he's a soon to be 32 year old complementary winger signed long-term with a NMC. I just can't see any situation where he brings back anything but another big contract. It would be the Hornqvist for Matheson trade all over again. And even with Hornqvist, the Penguins forced his hand to make that trade by threatening to waive him if he didn't accept the trade. They can't do that with Rust.

Let's just get out of Rust's contract. Any way possible.

 

[SomeDude]

If they get back a shitty contract and a nothing pick, what's even the point of trading him?

They had to take back Matheson's huge deal to move Hornqvist, I don't see why they'd be able to move Rust without taking back another big contract. Teams aren't lining up to trade for a 5 year, $5 million AAV deal with a NMC for a 32 year old complementary winger.

Taking a shitty contract back obviously doesn’t make sense. If you had someone offer a 2nd rounder, I would ask him to waive.

I think you over value how smart GMs are. They see Cup pedigree and not a rental, you never know what they may pony up.

Hornqvist was harder to move because his contract was uninsured due to so many injuries. Thats why it took like 15 hours for the deal to get completed even after it was known.

 

[vodeni]

Well uh... as a big positive for WunderKyle the bar he has to clear for the TDL to be considered a success is downright subterranean thanks to his predecessor.

He just CAN'T do any worse than a second for Granlund. Hahaha... right? RIGHT?!?

same kind of pressure mounting, already articles "biggest trade deadline ever"

 

[Slaaapshuter]

If they get back a shitty contract and a nothing pick, what's even the point of trading him?

They had to take back Matheson's huge deal to move Hornqvist, I don't see why they'd be able to move Rust without taking back another big contract. Teams aren't lining up to trade for a 5 year, $5 million AAV deal with a NMC for a 32 year old complementary winger.

Country club exodus

 

[SomeDude]

Eh I get wanting out of his deal but little to zero chance you replace his production for his cap hit via FA.

I’d def move him for a “haul” though. Just not sure if it exists.

I just don’t see how you can’t welcome major change. This team blows. Getting out of the Rust contract with not taking back a bad contract back would be a win in my eyes. He’s an injury liability at all times and like I said useless away from Sid.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Let's just get out of Rust's contract. Any way possible.

The fact that they won't even approach him to ask him what he would like to do is completely bush league.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I just don’t see how you can’t welcome major change. This team blows. Getting out of the Rust contract with not taking back a bad contract back would be a win in my eyes. He’s an injury liability at all times and like I said useless away from Sid.

I want change. I’d be fine if he was dealt for Future Considerations. But I also understand not dealing him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Rust really garners some weird loyalty, huh?

He's 32, injured every season for like 20 games, has a pretty beefy contract, only seems to mesh with one line, isn't exactly what I'd call more than a like 1 1/2 dimensional forward these days and isn't going to drive play, put butts in seats or be a centerpiece of any future part of this franchise. So I don't get if we're "blowing things up" why THAT guy is for some reason an exception to the rule.

Hell at this point I'd chuck Malkin and Letang overboard if they wanted out. Why is Bryan flippin' Rust safe?

 

[Sideline]

But again, Rust has a full NMC and can pick his location. That kills his value in a trade.

Again, he's a soon to be 32 year old complementary winger signed long-term with a NMC. I just can't see any situation where he brings back anything but another big contract. It would be the Hornqvist for Matheson trade all over again. And even with Hornqvist, the Penguins forced his hand to make that trade by threatening to waive him if he didn't accept the trade. They can't do that with Rust.

I'm not suggesting the Penguins should trade Rust just for the sake of trading him. But if he really is drawing strong interest then I think they should move him precisely because I don't believe he's good long-term value.


Teams up against the cap in the summer are always looking for soft deals to make room. Vegas sold off Smith for a 3rd last year. So if some contender is offering better than that for Rust right now, then I take it and replace Rust in the offseason with someone like Smith for a cheaper asset on a more digestible contract.

 

[SEALBound]

Refusing a haul because you respect Bryan Rust would just be so amazing.

It’s like refusing to fire a coach 3 years past his expiration date because you respect him so much.

What a well run organization this is.

I don't think not asking Rust to waive his NMC (not limit NTC, not a full NTC, a full NMC) a sign of a bad run organization.

First, they still need a couple of competent wingers. They can't dump all four top 6 wings (Jake and Smith are likely gone and there were rumbles on interest in Rakell). So IF you are doing a MAJOR retool, I think people here are underestimating how brutal it would be to find FOUR new top 6 wings. Teams have trouble finding one or two each season.

Second, there IS an aspect of "he's earned it". He's been a good long-standing player for the team and the organization likes to treat guys right. They aren't the cold-hearted VGK. That's just reality. For better or for worse. I would have to see the exact trade proposals to determine if that level of respect is warranted because it does have a limit vs "what's best for the team". Like if it's Chicago offering their 2024 unconditional 1st...then yes, go ahead and do that. If a mid-level team or contender is wanting him for a 3rd+rando prospect, then no. So all of this bitching about them not asking - you need to get some hard evidence of what teams are offering for him. Otherwise, you're just bitching and moaning.

Third, I've alluded to this in the past but the discussions between GMs are not limited to what is leaked by insiders or the media. I imagine they talk all of the time about a wide variety of players. I would think that's a part of the due diligence of a GM for an NHL team is to know what guys are: "Available now" vs "not available now but may be available later" vs "not available period". I believe JR even talked about that once. So if you're Dubas you're looking at a TDL where you're looking to sell off major assets like Jake, Smith, and a couple others, maybe you go to Rust and "hey we're not looking to move you" as a means to help shift focus to other players. The number of calls Dubas and his team are getting this week has got to be insane, so to preemptively end "well, hey, what about Rust?" calls is smart, I would say.

Fourth, Rust has several years left on his deal, just like Rakell. We can EASILY wait until summer to make moves with either. Going into next year with Rust and Rakell is less problematic than going into next year with Rust, Rakell, and Smith.

Fifth, as we all know, it means nothing unless they fire Sullivan. Nothing is getting fixed with him here.

 

[pistolpete11]

Rust's injuries would be a concern and lower his value, but he is pacing for like 35G and 70P over 82 games, mostly at EV, and he PKs/has a good defensive forward reputation. He would absolutely draw a ton of interest.

His NMC is only through next year, so that wouldn't be a factor since most teams that would be trading for him would probably want him for at least next year anyway. The length of the contract at his age would be the bigger concern.

I think he'd bring back at minimum a 2nd. Maybe something like 2 2nds, or a 2nd and a 3rd. If the return is another bad contract and a small add, meh. Might as well just keep him.

 

[SomeDude]

I don't think not asking Rust to waive his NMC (not limit NTC, not a full NTC, a full NMC) a sign of a bad run organization.

First, they still need a couple of competent wingers. They can dump all four top 6 wings (Jake and Smith are likely gone and there were rumbles on interest in Rakell). So IF you are doing a MAJOR retool, I think people here are underestimating how brutal it would be to find FOUR new top 6 wings. Teams have trouble finding one or two each season.

Second, there IS an aspect of "earned it". He's been a good long-standing player for the team and the organization likes to treat guys right. They aren't the cold-hearted VGK. That's just reality. For better or for worse. I would have to see the exact trade proposals to determine if that level of respect is warranted because it does have a limit vs "what's best for the team". Like if it's Chicago offering their 2024 unconditional 1st...then yes, go ahead and do that. If a mid-level team or contender is wanting him for a 3rd+rando prospect, then no.

Third, I've alluded to this in the past but the discussions between GMs are not limited to what is leaked by insiders or the media. I imagine they talk all of the time about a wide variety of players. I would think that's a part of the due diligence of a GM for an NHL team is to know what guys are: "Available now" vs "not available now but may be available later" vs "not available period". I believe JR even talked about that once. So if you're Dubas you're looking at a TDL where you're looking to sell off major assets like Jake, Smith, and a couple others, maybe you go to Rust and "hey we're not looking to move you" as a means to help shift focus to other players. The number of calls Dubas and his team are getting this week has got to be insane so preemptively end "well hey what about Rust?" calls is smart I would say.

Fourth, Rust has several years left on his deal just like Rakell. We can EASILY wait until summer to make moves with either. Going into next year with Rust and Rakell is less problematic than going into next year with Rust, Rakell, and Smith.

Fifth, as we all know, it means nothing unless they fire Sullivan. Nothing is getting fixed with him here.

With that all being said, you may not have interest in Rust as a positive asset after this deadline. Every day he plays is another one closer to the league realizing he’s not very good and getting worse.

Asking a player if they are interested in moving on with a NMC and letting them decide is not going to hurt the reputation of a team. A lot of players would respect that rather than being chained to the Titanic.

 

[Deport Ogie]

I don't understand how people simultaneously shit on Rust as "replaceable", "mediocre with flashes of good" or whatever else, but also act like he has value while signed long-term with a NMC.

I'm not going to argue that they shouldn't try to trade Rust, but I'm pretty confident any Rust trade would be pretty shitty for the Penguins. He's a soon to be 32 year old winger signed long-term with a NMC and he's currently on IR with an injury. I don't think they'd get great offers for Rust at all, because Rust can pick his location and basically make the bidding whoever he wants.

I expect the fact is that the FO knows they can't trade Rust without taking a total bath so they float shit like "oh we respect him SO much..." because he won't be traded and they can't say "he's vaguely mid but my predecessor boned us raw and it's not worth even dangling him"

 

[SEALBound]

With that all being said, you may not have interest in Rust as a positive asset after this deadline. Every day he plays is another one closer to the league realizing he’s not very good and getting worse.

Asking a player if they are interested in moving on with a NMC and letting them decide is not going to hurt the reputation of a team. A lot of players would respect that rather than being chained to the Titanic.

Yeah, I don't think so. He was legit terrible last year and somehow teams are, supposedly, still interested. 20 games, no matter how dog shit they could get, is going to change the interest of a GM.

Major injury or something, sure. 20 games after a major sell off at the TDL, no.

"Trade Rust now because he won't be valuable later" is a terrible justification to ask him to waive.