Nothing would surprise me at this point. Gawd, is it depressing. Thank god I can look forward to the Pirat....oh, crap.
Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."
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BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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Bad as the Penguins are... don't fall into that trap, friend.
The Penguins at least have a chance at digging themselves out of this self-imposed hole someday. The Pirates do not.
The fact that they're planning on running Tellez out there as their starting 1B tells you everything you need to know about the Pirates' commitment to winning.
Johnny Rifle
Pittsburgh Penguins
If Jake is going to return us garbage just sign him. I’d rather have an expensive winger we know can score 25 goals then some prospects stuck in the AHL for a few years.
Delaying the inevitable low point when the core retire is fine with me if the alternative is not going to be any better. I just don’t trust the coaching staff to develop any worthy prospects, so why not just try to squeeze another playoff run next year.
if you can’t fire Sullivan, force his hand by trading away his pet projects and import some players who have speed and/or grit. Trade Ruh to force Ty Smith in the lineup even if it’s his off side.
Delaying the inevitable low point when the core retire is fine with me if the alternative is not going to be any better. I just don’t trust the coaching staff to develop any worthy prospects, so why not just try to squeeze another playoff run next year.
if you can’t fire Sullivan, force his hand by trading away his pet projects and import some players who have speed and/or grit. Trade Ruh to force Ty Smith in the lineup even if it’s his off side.
GilbertSeinfeld
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- Mar 4, 2024
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Mike Sullivan would wait until that cookie was stale, THEN force you to eat it and say at least it was a cookie.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I was digging into the prospects a bit more, and I think Carolina has far and away the best prospects to offer for Guentzel. It's not even close, all of Nadeau, Koivunen, Nikishin and Morrow are sitting on top line upside or better according to Dobber Prospects. If you could pull off Nadeau and a 1st, I think that would beat any offer another team would make.
If not Carolina, I actually think Florida is the next best option. I love what I see from Samoskevich and they have a couple of decent secondary pieces between Sawchyn (who I think the Penguins should target if they're trading Smith to Florida) and Devine. I actually don't know if the Penguins could pull off Devine in addition to Samoskevich.
Vegas has multiple good prospects, but not really any obvious headliners. I think Brisson and Hoglander actually seem pretty similar in upside, which is below any of the Carolina prospects or Samoskevich. Vegas has a plethora of good pieces, but no real headliners that stand out. But if you'd be fine with a bunch of B prospects and a 1st for Guentzel, Vegas would likely give you exactly that between Cataford, Sapovaliv, Brisson, Korczak and Dorofeyev. Lucas Cormier also had a really good prospect rating before this year, but he has really fallen off.
Vancouver....yikes. Hoglander and Raty only have 2nd line potential, and Podkolzin and Pettersson aren't even rated at 2nd line potential. Even Lekkerimaki isn't rated all that strong, he has 1st line upside but is ranked below Devine from Florida.
If not Carolina, I actually think Florida is the next best option. I love what I see from Samoskevich and they have a couple of decent secondary pieces between Sawchyn (who I think the Penguins should target if they're trading Smith to Florida) and Devine. I actually don't know if the Penguins could pull off Devine in addition to Samoskevich.
Vegas has multiple good prospects, but not really any obvious headliners. I think Brisson and Hoglander actually seem pretty similar in upside, which is below any of the Carolina prospects or Samoskevich. Vegas has a plethora of good pieces, but no real headliners that stand out. But if you'd be fine with a bunch of B prospects and a 1st for Guentzel, Vegas would likely give you exactly that between Cataford, Sapovaliv, Brisson, Korczak and Dorofeyev. Lucas Cormier also had a really good prospect rating before this year, but he has really fallen off.
Vancouver....yikes. Hoglander and Raty only have 2nd line potential, and Podkolzin and Pettersson aren't even rated at 2nd line potential. Even Lekkerimaki isn't rated all that strong, he has 1st line upside but is ranked below Devine from Florida.
Malkinstheman
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2012
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I think Friedman mentioned last week that Carolina isnt really looking at rentals. They want a forward with term. They might be interested in Smith,
Gurglesons
Registered User
Smith is a very Carolina type add.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Yeah I think this is right, that kind of move just isn't really something Carolina does.
I think at this point, my biggest hope would be Florida with Samoskevich. Samoskevich, Devine and a 2025 2nd would make me jump with happiness, it would be a great return.
Pens x
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2016
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Did this mickey mouse team schedule the dads trip during the trade deadline again?
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
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Geeeeeeez. For some reason I thought he was still late 20s.
All the more reason, then... what... do they think 32 year old Rust has another level hidden in there or something? Is he some great team leader? What is he leading if so?
Malkinstheman
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- Aug 12, 2012
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Hope Dubas doesnt tie his hands behind his back and refuse to trade within division. They need to get real with the trajectory of this team. Maximize return on everything.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I'd ask for whichever one of Carolina's 2nds end up later this year for Smith. I think that's a reasonable basis for a deal, maybe the Penguins throw in a 4th to close out any value there.
Johnny Rifle
Pittsburgh Penguins
Rust, like Rakell, is not the worst contract for a top line winger. We are older up front, yes, but we have most of our core on very team-friendly contracts.
Our problem isn’t that our top lines are too expensive. It’s that our bottom six and bottom defense pair is a wasteland. Ty Smith should be playing, Jeff Carter should not. Eller has been okay, but he’s a poor fit in what we should be doing in tge bottom six, speed and grit. If we aren’t scoring, at least wear out the opponent.
I think Dubas's hope was that he could eventually assemble something like a functional 3rd line sometime by December and then just live with a terrible 4th line. Obviously didn't happen. One of my gut beliefs is that without Carter's contract, he might have been able to make it all work, but that's probably just me being overoptimistic.
DesertedPenguin
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- Mar 11, 2007
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I will state on the record now that I will be critical of Dubas if he brings back Sullivan.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I mean, if we're being real, the only reason this team isn't a playoff team right now is because their powerplay sucks. And based on the players on this team, there is really no excuse for the powerplay sucking.
Would this team be good with a better powerplay? Probably not much more than a wildcard team. But the Penguins are a decent 5v5 team (+9 goal differential, 11th in GF% at 5v5), and a powerplay that is as good as it should be would likely push them up about 10-12 points in the standings. So when people say "I don't see what Dubas saw in this team", I don't really understand that.
The thing I don't understand with Dubas is why he hasn't fired Rierden yet when the powerplay obviously needs a major makeover. He's punting the season before even trying to fire the PP coach, when the PP is pretty much the entire reason they're not in a playoff spot. I don't get it at all.
Would this team be good with a better powerplay? Probably not much more than a wildcard team. But the Penguins are a decent 5v5 team (+9 goal differential, 11th in GF% at 5v5), and a powerplay that is as good as it should be would likely push them up about 10-12 points in the standings. So when people say "I don't see what Dubas saw in this team", I don't really understand that.
The thing I don't understand with Dubas is why he hasn't fired Rierden yet when the powerplay obviously needs a major makeover. He's punting the season before even trying to fire the PP coach, when the PP is pretty much the entire reason they're not in a playoff spot. I don't get it at all.
cygnus47
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- Sep 14, 2013
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Outside of a few obvious exceptions (Harkins, Carter, Graves), I don't think our roster is bad apart from being a bit old and slow. At least nowhere near as bad as we've played. If Sully was willing to create roster competition everywhere and play the AHL guys we'd look a lot better too.
Watching us defensively it's so obvious we're completely lost and don't have any identity. We never anticipate outlet options or have a second guy under the play to pick up the puck, we don't pressure guys in bad spots, we don't overload, we don't make the right plays chasing guys around the net. We just stand around and chase and hope for a turnover. It means we generate close to the least rush chances in the league and that's why our finishing is so bad too. Just no positives at all in our system. You don't need youth or speed to do any of those things.
Our roster isn't great, but Sully and Rierden are a faaaar bigger problem.
Johnny Rifle
Pittsburgh Penguins
The funny thing is that our weaknesses (age, speed) should not be an issue on the power play. We still have a bunch of playmakers.
Call me crazy but it seems like Malkin got demoted because he had the audacity to shoot the puck instead of the Rierder-approved strategy of passing the puck into the net. I know Malkin can be a turover machine at the point, but there is no reason not to have him at the bumper slot firing off one-timers.
Call me crazy but it seems like Malkin got demoted because he had the audacity to shoot the puck instead of the Rierder-approved strategy of passing the puck into the net. I know Malkin can be a turover machine at the point, but there is no reason not to have him at the bumper slot firing off one-timers.
cygnus47
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- Sep 14, 2013
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Yeah I can see why he wouldn't make a move immediately, but he's seen first hand the problems. It's on him now.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
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Freeptop
Registered User
Honestly, I don't understand how the power play being as bad as it is hasn't lead to Sullivan getting fired. At the end of the day, if the PP isn't performing, then the head coach should be stepping in and trying to do something about it. Where "doing something" isn't just "shuffle around a few players between the first and second units", but rather, "if the first unit isn't doing what they're being told to, send out players who will." If the problem is that the players are doing what the coaches are telling them to do, then it's even more of a fireable offense, because no coach should be telling their players to have the three players at the top of the umbrella just pass the puck back and forth to each other until they cough up the puck.
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