Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[AuroraBorealis]

They were already mentally fragile when we they had those guys. I think MAF needed to leave for the benefit of everyone involved.

Imo, after those cup teams (especially after the capitals loss) they had a decision to make; get younger and go through that process or keep chasing cups. They chose the latter and some awful roster decisions were made doing it. That was always the risk.

If they had stopped throwing away picks chasing cups, even for a little bit, we might have guys like Cole Caufield or a Nick Suzuki or maybe even a guy like Quinn Hughes. With players like that, you get some renewed energy and top level skill, and maybe another serious run at it if everything goes right. No one was objective enough to see that the team wasn’t close during those years though. A lot of hubris came with those cups.

I don't see how we've benefited with MAF gone. The vibe on the team worsened, and the goaltending only improved in 1 out of 3 seasons with Murray as the starter after that.
Flower helped guys play looser, and with more swagger. That helped performance. Murray contributed nothing in this way.

Some years warranted trading picks and some didn't. Which trades did you object to? We've benefited in the playoffs from trading picks before, like with Hossa and Kessel.
It's hard to predict when it'll work out and when it won't. A lot of people were loving the Brassard trade at the time, thinking that gave us a good chance for a 3-peat.
Chasing Cups makes a lot of sense when your core are still at their top level. There's usually a pretty short window with teams when they can capitalize on strong rosters.
Even in 2021 I felt they were serious contenders and going for it by sacrificing picks was warranted.

Suzuki got picked 13th. I see a bunch of players near his position in that draft that would have done nothing for this organization. Odds are you miss with that pick.
Similarly, Caufield went 15th, with a bunch of nothing players around him on the list too.
It's easy to look at things now after they've developed, but what would have happened at the time, had they gone down that path?

 

[canadianguy77]

I don't see how we've benefited with MAF gone. The vibe on the team worsened, and the goaltending only improved in 1 out of 3 seasons with Murray as the starter after that.
Flower helped guys play looser, and with more swagger. That helped performance. Murray contributed nothing in this way.

Some years warranted trading picks and some didn't. Which trades did you object to? We've benefited in the playoffs from trading picks before, like with Hossa and Kessel.
It's hard to predict when it'll work out and when it won't. A lot of people were loving the Brassard trade at the time, thinking that gave us a good chance for a 3-peat.
Chasing Cups makes a lot of sense when your core are still at their top level. There's usually a pretty short window with teams when they can capitalize on strong rosters.
Even in 2021 I felt they were serious contenders and going for it by sacrificing picks was warranted.

Suzuki got picked 13th. I see a bunch of players near his position in that draft that would have done nothing for this organization. Odds are you miss with that pick.
Similarly, Caufield went 15th, with a bunch of nothing players around him on the list too.
It's easy to look at things now after they've developed, but what would have happened at the time, had they gone down that path?

Hughes went pretty late too. Im just saying that you only really need to hit on one and then you can fill out whatever else in the summers. This team needed at least another dynamic player to make up for Phil’s fairly rapid decline. But they never really went after anyone who was dynamic.

There were different ways to go about things. But even as early as 2018, a lot of posters on here wanted to start keeping our 1st round picks. We could see that the team was stale and Sullivans big flaws were becoming very apparent. Imo, at the time there were far too many arguments about how the players drafted would take too long to make any difference. I guess most people on here thought Sid and Geno would be completely useless by now lol. It’s all hindsight anyway, so whatever, but things could be very different today if the organization was a little more honest with itself. It should have taken a real long look in the mirror after that 1st Islanders series.

As far as MAF goes, it really was for the best for everyone. He needed to move on and the Penguins had to go in another direction. You make that choice with those circumstances 100 times out of 100. I feel like you don't remember his history in a Penguins jersey. He went out on a high note despite everything. It doesn't get much better than that.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

This playoff race is embarrassing. Pens legitimately still in it.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Michael Bunting...
with Hurricanes -15
with Pens 13 games -9
Horrendous!

Hi point stats aren't bad...
13games -> 3g-4a, but these are not head turning numbers, and not worth 4.5M.

Isn't he supposed to be in front of the net? Don't see him there anymore. Not even on the PP.
Isn't he supposed to battle and free up pucks? Don't see him battling anymore.
Agitator? nope.
He's supposed to suck defensively, and that still seems to be the case. Rarely see him backcheck.

I was excited in the first few games, as I saw him providing something unique, but not so much anymore.

What's up with the guy?

 

[Coastal Kev]

Michael Bunting...
with Hurricanes -15
with Pens 13 games -9
Horrendous!

Hi point stats aren't bad...
13games -> 3g-4a, but these are not head turning numbers, and not worth 4.5M.

Isn't he supposed to be in front of the net? Don't see him there anymore. Not even on the PP.
Isn't he supposed to battle and free up pucks? Don't see him battling anymore.
Agitator? nope.
He's supposed to suck defensively, and that still seems to be the case. Rarely see him backcheck.

I was excited in the first few games, as I saw him providing something unique, but not so much anymore.

What's up with the guy?

He's been sullied..........

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

He's been sullied..........

lol....I was thinking about that, but usually it takes a few more games for that to happen.

 

[Pens x]

This little winning streak will fool dumbass Dubas into making minimal changes this upcoming offseason.

 

[chethejet]

Bunting can be a decent LW who does bring some grit and good skills to the position. Smith has picked it up a bit but man what a passenger for 60 games. 4.5 million is not a bad contract here. Deal Smith at the draft day for a number 2 and Pens have approx 18 million to work with. Sid is key here. If he extends for 2 more years at say 10 million, then moving Karlsson and Rust for picks/prospects with two solid drafts now dubas should have options and the roster development to hire his coach and remake the WB staff to what he wants. The critical job is the rebuild in his hiring.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This playoff race is embarrassing. Pens legitimately still in it.

The race for the last spot in the Metro caught on film.

 

[eXile3]

This little winning streak will fool dumbass Dubas into making minimal changes this upcoming offseason.

You act like that is a bad thing? I want that guy doing as little as possible. I can’t imagine the damage he can do in one offseason if he’s active.

 

[molon labe]

Yes...the Metro sucks. All the more reason it's utterly embarrassing we're outside looking in.

It's not like Bedard is available again. WTF have we been doing all year looking at this team and system?


-----


Honest question here: what do you all think Brady Tkachuk costs? Assuming he's "available" - is it remotely possible? He's literally the mold of player I've coveted for the Pens for so long...and I know it's a long shot....but, group-think it if you feel up for it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You act like that is a bad thing? I want that guy doing as little as possible. I can’t imagine the damage he can do in one offseason if he’s active.

tired: gm protecting the team from the coach being mediocre
wired: coach protecting the team from the gm (by being mediocre)

 

[molon labe]

tired: gm protecting the team from the coach being mediocre
wired: coach protecting the team from the gm (by being mediocre)

This is the exact roster type fielded by Sullivan for the past several years / seasons.

Dubas deserves far more than he's been given with regard to sitting on his hands....but this entire roster makeup is literally the Pittsburgh Sullivans. Dude is flat out obsessed with zero-skill PKers, puck moving D, and no weights being lifted in the gym.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's like this every year. It doesn't take a good team to make the playoffs; there are a lot of aggressively mediocre or arguably bad teams in the post season year after year. That's why it's so annoying that this team's fighting tooth and nail to barely make it (or miss entirely) every season--it's not a big accomplishment. They've just repeatedly torpedoed themselves for like six years running.

 

[Pens x]

I

You act like that is a bad thing? I want that guy doing as little as possible. I can’t imagine the damage he can do in one offseason if he’s active.

lol good point

 

[ChaosAgent]

It's like this every year. It doesn't take a good team to make the playoffs; there are a lot of aggressively mediocre or arguably bad teams in the post season year after year. That's why it's so annoying that this team's fighting tooth and nail to barely make it (or miss entirely) every season--it's not a big accomplishment. They've just repeatedly torpedoed themselves for like six years running.

We are so lucky praise be

 

[HandshakeLine]

I deserve a medal for not shooting myself in the foot with a nailgun for at least 15 years in a row.

 

[SEALBound]

Florida made it because we lost to f***ing Chicago. They then went to the Cup finals. Anything can happen.

*snicker*

 

[molon labe]

Florida made it because we lost to f***ing Chicago. They then went to the Cup finals. Anything can happen.

*snicker*

Just for fun, let's imagine what it would take for this team to have post-season success:

- Ned/Jarry, nuff said.
- Sid to average 1.5 GPG and very likely 2+ ppg
- Rust to average 1 GPG
- The field to combine for another .5 GPG
- Team as a whole to suppress Boston/New York/Carolina to 2 GPG

That's to stand a chance. I don't think I've ever seen a team with this little offensive talent in the roster and lackluster defensive corps [in their own zone] make it beyond the first round *** without someone like Carey Price in net. We've got two 1B goalies, Sid, and a bucket full of mediocrity. It's not built for success - can anything happen? I guess so. Can Sid go psycho mode at 36? I guess for a round but I don't see it sustained through an entire playoffs. Hell, after about 10 minutes into game 1 - any coach/group of players with a brain cell are going to realize they just need to double-team Sid and this team is toast.

 

[molon labe]

It's like this every year. It doesn't take a good team to make the playoffs; there are a lot of aggressively mediocre or arguably bad teams in the post season year after year. That's why it's so annoying that this team's fighting tooth and nail to barely make it (or miss entirely) every season--it's not a big accomplishment. They've just repeatedly torpedoed themselves for like six years running.

I don't agree with that. Many years [if not more often than not] the race to get in is tight and good teams are left out. Especially over the last 10 years or so.

I think we discussed this over the Summer. Made it all the more baffling we drafted Yaeger, then stood pat for the next 7 months. A deep run was absolutely up for grabs and we threw the towel in....to what? Get some prospects for Jake and take a stab at a weak draft?

Like, in years' past teams started bowing out in December and selling off pieces. It was clear there were too many teams ahead of them. Something about these last 2 maybe 3 years where the playoffs and the champions just look mid at best. I hate slighting champions but not every year is equal. I'd wager just about anything that the 2016 Pens would dummy any single champion from 2017 to present. Why we're deciding to just throw the towel in when success is up for grabs is beyond me.

I mean that based on the entire year - not these last 3 weeks. Obviously we can't do anything at this point.

 

[Ryder71]

This little winning streak will fool Dubas into making minimal changes this upcoming offseason.

As it should.

Michael Bunting...
with Hurricanes -15
with Pens 13 games -9
Horrendous!

Hi point stats aren't bad...
13games -> 3g-4a, but these are not head turning numbers, and not worth 4.5M.

Isn't he supposed to be in front of the net? Don't see him there anymore. Not even on the PP.
Isn't he supposed to battle and free up pucks? Don't see him battling anymore.
Agitator? nope.
He's supposed to suck defensively, and that still seems to be the case. Rarely see him backcheck.

I was excited in the first few games, as I saw him providing something unique, but not so much anymore.

What's up with the guy?

He's been good here. You have to consider just how bad we are.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If you're gonna post Bunting's +/- after a goal drought for the team, post the highlights of the goals against he was responsible for.
Make an accounting of how many.

 

[Turin]

If you're gonna post Bunting's +/- after a goal drought for the team, post the highlights of the goals against he was responsible for.
Make an accounting of how many.

probably like all of them duh

 

[Ryder71]

The race for the last spot in the Metro caught on film.

Where's Sid?

 

[Gurglesons]

He's been sullied..........

Nah. He had one good year playing shotgun with Matthews and has been mid since.