Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: Dr Strangedubas "Tankination" is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face."

[66-30-33]

That's not true. if we would have lost then there would be another reason Sully squandered it for us.

The players, Letang and EK in particular have bad moments that have cost this team dearly, maybe look at them a bit.

Sully doesn't control the players f***ing up on the ice, but he does control who's on it. Jeff Carter at pretty much the end of the game? Your best players are supposed to be on the ice in OT anyway. I don't know if they practice 3 on 3 but rumor has it they don't.

 

[Ryder71]

Sully doesn't control the players f***ing up on the ice, but he does control who's on it. Jeff Carter at pretty much the end of the game? Your best players are supposed to be on the ice in OT anyway. I don't know if they practice 3 on 3 but rumor has it they don't.

Hextall retained both Letang and Geno, not Sullivans fault they're turnover machines at times. Should Sully bench them whenever they made a mistake? If so they'd almost never see the ice.

This OT thing to me is a non-issue, they were trying to win the faceoff and failed, Sid had a skate issue, Geno is not the best at faceoffs and never was. If I had to choose between Geno or Eller taking a draw, I'd choose Eller. Most would.

 

[Ryder71]

I remember Jarry being HISTORICALLY absurd in that playoff series against the Isles. If not for that we win handily and I believe Desmith was injured. And even if not he wasn't a world beater himself. Competent goaltending there and we win that series. Can't fault Sully on that one. The players are allowed to actually play to their abilities. If they don't then sometimes they are the ones who need to look in the mirror. And I'm no fan of Sullivan. I wanted change, I wanted to move on from the core, but no one else did. So we're stuck with them AND Sully. It's a package deal, like it or not.

 

[Ryder71]

For all the ppl here who like Sid, just remember he likes Sullivan also. Maybe start blaming him?

As long as Sid is here, there's the possibility that Sullivan is as well.

YOU think about that now.

 

[Pens x]

Hextall retained both Letang and Geno, not Sullivans fault they're turnover machines at times. Should Sully bench them whenever they made a mistake? If so they'd almost never see the ice.

This OT thing to me is a non-issue, they were trying to win the faceoff and failed, Sid had a skate issue, Geno is not the best at faceoffs and never was. If I had to choose between Geno or Eller taking a draw, I'd choose Eller. Most would.

But why DOC???

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think it's time we all took responsibility for the fact that we only discuss the things we can't change about this team, which is literally every facet of its existence.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Honestly have no problem with OC in OT. One of the better skaters on the team.

Puus should really be getting OT looks. One of the better open ice guys here at this juncture.

Crosby hasn’t been effective in 3v3. It’s not about him vs Eller/Carter/etc as much as it’s about not using the right skill sets for the right situation.

Remember how the two things those lunatics from Toronto could agree on when we traded for Kap was that he was a beast on the PK and in 3v3? We never used him for either.

It’s a broader theme with Sullivan. Why is Carter a shutdown guy now? I literally think it’s because he’s old big and a righty. Maybe he can win some battles but he’s never really been a defensive ace.

 

[Andy99]

Honestly have no problem with OC in OT. One of the better skaters on the team.

Puus should really be getting OT looks. One of the better open ice guys here at this juncture.

Crosby hasn’t been effective in 3v3. It’s not about him vs Eller/Carter/etc as much as it’s about not using the right skill sets for the right situation.

Remember how the two things those lunatics from Toronto could agree on when we traded for Kap was that he was a beast on the PK and in 3v3? We never used him for either.

It’s a broader theme with Sullivan. Why is Carter a shutdown guy now? I literally think it’s because he’s old big and a righty. Maybe he can win some battles but he’s never really been a defensive ace.

When the Pens miss the playoffs by a point due in large part to Sullivan again, someone please text Sid and have him tell Dubas he no longer wants to play for that fraud — public service announcement lol

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Carter thing feels more like coaching cliche that a former player like Sullivan falls into. Vets become shutdown guys because maybe they don't score anymore, but they have all that experience. In reality, Carter isn't cut out for that gig and only looked like a passable defensive guy when we were playing without much travel during the shortened season. Experience doesn't mean shit if your legs are shot especially if you weren't a super cerebral player to begin with.

It's just the expected lifespan of the vet, and I'm sure most coaches fall into it, but man it's really not what we should be doing in a situation where every point matters-- you want to roll that dice. Worst comes to worst, you lose anyway, like we did, but at least you have a chance to score. Who cares if Malkin or Puusy makes a defensive mistake? You need to win, not play without mistakes.

 

[Andy99]

The Carter thing feels more like coaching cliche that a former player like Sullivan falls into. Vets become shutdown guys because maybe they don't score anymore, but they have all that experience. In reality, Carter isn't cut out for that gig and only looked like a passable defensive guy when we were playing without much travel during the shortened season. Experience doesn't mean shit if your legs are shot.

It's just the expected lifespan of the vet, and I'm sure most coaches fall into it, but man it's really not what we should be doing in a situation where every point matters-- you want to roll that dice. Worst comes to worst, you lose anyway, like we did, but at least you have a chance to score. Who cares if Malkin or Puusy makes a defensive mistake? You need to win, not play without mistakes.

Sullivan has a risk averse loser mentality like that other Pittsburgh coach named Mike…

 

[HandshakeLine]

Which is fine when you're in a position of relative success, but when you hit this point of the decline, you need to take risks.

 

[Ugene Magic]

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't remember what context it came up in exactly but someone once called DOC a bigger Bob Errey and I always think about that whenever I watch him on open ice.

 

[molon labe]

Yeah DOC is a 3rd liner. That's it.

Not having Geno out there was criminal. Have whomever you want to take the freakin faceoff - but the whole point of OT is to score and we didn't have a scoring threat on the ice.

Maybe Sid likes his own narrative of 'turning' guys like DOC into top-6, but the reality is this team would be way better off with a legitimate wing in the top 6 that can carry the mail on nights Sid mails it in or has an off night. We'd also be way better off than watching 7 out of every 10 shifts of Sid end in dissaray or ruin because DOC doesn't have that top 6 wherewithall. He can skate, he can hound pucks...but he doesn't keep plays alive well and doesn't have top 6 vision (at this time). So if Sid isn't feeding DOC, DOC isn't doing anything but crashing the boards. There's nothing wrong with that - it just looks out of place in the top 6. That goal against TOR? That's the kind of goal we used to [when we were a championship club] expect from a 4th line depth guy here and there. The Eric Fehr / Scott Wilson goal... not expected production from the top 6.

My assessment of him would be something along the lines of Hagelin but with more scoring touch. But where he makes up in scoring he loses out in puck battles, vision, and outright speed to Hagelin. So yeah - nice guy in the lineup at a nice price - but a horrible solution to this teams' most glaring issue at the moment.

Geno planted at 2C is the other glaring issue but that doesn't come out nightly - especially since they've lowered his minutes. Should we somehow make the playoffs and face off against any of NY/Car/Bos/FL - it'll be right in the face once again. We simply don't have the top end talent anymore - and while it's dried up the organization has seemingly turned a blind eye to it. I honestly thought as Sid/Geno aged and their contracts got more palatable we'd have had a top wing or another C coming in. They thought otherwise - that a collection of tweener top 6 / middle 6 could get the job done.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah DOC is a 3rd liner. That's it.

Not having Geno out there was criminal. Have whomever you want to take the freakin faceoff - but the whole point of OT is to score and we didn't have a scoring threat on the ice.

Maybe Sid likes his own narrative of 'turning' guys like DOC into top-6, but the reality is this team would be way better off with a legitimate wing in the top 6 that can carry the mail on nights Sid mails it in or has an off night. We'd also be way better off than watching 7 out of every 10 shifts of Sid end in dissaray or ruin because DOC doesn't have that top 6 wherewithall. He can skate, he can hound pucks...but he doesn't keep plays alive well and doesn't have top 6 vision (at this time). So if Sid isn't feeding DOC, DOC isn't doing anything but crashing the boards. There's nothing wrong with that - it just looks out of place in the top 6. That goal against TOR? That's the kind of goal we used to [when we were a championship club] expect from a 4th line depth guy here and there. The Eric Fehr / Scott Wilson goal... not expected production from the top 6.

My assessment of him would be something along the lines of Hagelin but with more scoring touch. But where he makes up in scoring he loses out in puck battles, vision, and outright speed to Hagelin. So yeah - nice guy in the lineup at a nice price - but a horrible solution to this teams' most glaring issue at the moment.

Geno planted at 2C is the other glaring issue but that doesn't come out nightly - especially since they've lowered his minutes. Should we somehow make the playoffs and face off against any of NY/Car/Bos/FL - it'll be right in the face once again. We simply don't have the top end talent anymore - and while it's dried up the organization has seemingly turned a blind eye to it. I honestly thought as Sid/Geno aged and their contracts got more palatable we'd have had a top wing or another C coming in. They thought otherwise - that a collection of tweener top 6 / middle 6 could get the job done.

You just have to be able to "work well" with Sid. I would hardly say Dupuis was a top 6 guy but with Sid, he was. You can not be a genuine top 6 forward but if you can think the game at Sid's level and dedicate your life to playing the way he wants you to play, it's doable.

How many top 6 wings have been brought in that haven't "worked" with Sid only for us to go back the drawing board? That's why it's hard to find Sid good wingers and why it's tough to move guys like Jake.

DOC is sure seizing his opportunity though. I've been impressed with his play thus far.

 

[metalan2]

Wait, why is Zohorna up here?

 

[BusinessGoose]

Wait, why is Zohorna up here?

So HCMS can teach poulin a lesson by being sent down

 

[The GM]

Wait, why is Zohorna up here?

Poulin was wasting too many nachos in the press box, sully figured a bigger body would eat more

 

[canadianguy77]

For all the ppl here who like Sid, just remember he likes Sullivan also. Maybe start blaming him?

As long as Sid is here, there's the possibility that Sullivan is as well.

YOU think about that now.

This take is so dumb. He doesn’t own the team and you have no idea how he personally feels about the coach or even if it matters how he feels.

Crosby has been media trained since he was a boy. He will never publicly denigrate a coach of his. Hell, look at how diplomatic he was when asked about Tortorella’s comments years ago. I imagine if he came out and criticized Sullivan, people like you would be the first to call him a locker-room cancer or a coach killer anyway. Dude can’t win.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This take is so dumb. He doesn’t own the team and you have no idea how he personally feels about the coach or even if it matters how he feels.

Crosby has been media trained since he was a boy. He will never publicly denigrate a coach of his. Hell, look at how diplomatic he was when asked about Tortorella’s comments years ago. I imagine if he came out and criticized Sullivan, people like you would be the first to call him a locker-room cancer or a coach killer anyway. Dude can’t win.

I've realized that poster started posting again right around the same time a certain other coach defender/star player basher disappeared. Probably best to not engage them since it's clear they have a specific schtick.

 

[Ryder71]

Crosby has been media trained since he was a boy. He will never publicly denigrate a coach of his. Hell, look at how diplomatic he was when asked about Tortorella’s comments years ago. I imagine if he came out and criticized Sullivan, people like you would be the first to call him a locker-room cancer or a coach killer anyway. Dude can’t win.

It's correct, the core doesn't want to break in a new coach. Research it a bit if you don't believe me. You know what it is, you just can't bring yourself to criticize Sid. Just telling you if the core is here, Sully likely is also.

I've realized that poster started posting again right around the same time a certain other coach defender/star player basher disappeared. Probably best to not engage them since it's clear they have a specific schtick.

Really, who?

And who's defending the coach? I don't like him either, I'm just not gonna harp on him being fired year after year. I'm one of a kind baby, and I love it!

 

[BusinessGoose]

Yeah, hey, give @Ryder71 credit, they've been posting shit for a long time!

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, hey, give @Ryder71 credit, they've been posting shit for a long time!

Actually, I'm the only poster here who doesn't bring up firing the coach day in and day out.

Why, because it's been five years of this. We all want him gone, but it aint not gonna happen. So, just give up.

 

[HandshakeLine]

lol, some store brand hairguy posting going on ITT at the moment.

 

[molon labe]

You just have to be able to "work well" with Sid. I would hardly say Dupuis was a top 6 guy but with Sid, he was. You can not be a genuine top 6 forward but if you can think the game at Sid's level and dedicate your life to playing the way he wants you to play, it's doable.

How many top 6 wings have been brought in that haven't "worked" with Sid only for us to go back the drawing board? That's why it's hard to find Sid good wingers and why it's tough to move guys like Jake.

DOC is sure seizing his opportunity though. I've been impressed with his play thus far.

He's not playing/keeping up with Sid - not in my estimation. He just exists out there for most shifts - sort of my point.

Point B - we're talking Sid years ago versus Sid today. Obviously he's still in a league of his own but in different ways. He would really benefit from someone who's able to feed him just as he can feed them (hence Guentzel working well - but Jake's not the only NHL guy who can make a pass/play) - Rust/DOC are utter opposite of that. Both play with horse blinders on. Rust at least has a jack of all trades aspect to his game. DOC quite literally hounds pucks and chips pucks then looks spastic the rest of the shift. On the rare shift he puts it all together - it's great. But that's not a good plan to stick in your top 6 let alone your only true NHL scoring line.

I think both points can be true but I have a hard time coming off of the sense that our top 6 needs bolstering in 2022/2023/2024/2025....not plugging with plugs. Geno now makes 6M - some NHL clubs have that on their third line. But he's (allegedly) still our 2C. Sid makes 8.7 and performs well to contract - but has Rust/DOC stapled to him and his scoring threats have utterly plummeted. I don't see how anyone who watches these games/shifts with DOC doesn't see how often the play dies or never materializes in the first place because he's not a top line guy. He plays like a 3rd or 4th line NHLer. He never works to find himself open for his C, never sneaks around back door, never floats for a one timer....the dude chips the puck, plays like a spaz until he can do his best Sid impression by fighting along the boards and then he seemingly prays that his soccer pass or chip pass makes it to Sid. If Sid decides not to be goal-scoring-Sid in that game....the play is dead because Sid is only looking to pass himself. That's why the play always ends up stolen away, forced over to Rust for a missed opportunity, or passed back up to the point for a Pettersson miss the net by 15 miles special. Those are the guys open...and Sid finds the open man. The opposition isn't stupid and there's a reason Petts, formerly Ruh, POJ, etc are always, always open and Sid/Guentz hardly ever were. There's little things every single game that allude to the top 6 needing an overhaul and nothing that tells me DOC/Rakell/Smith belong there whatsoever.