Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: Dr Strangedubas "Tankination" is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face."

[Pancakes]

I mean if you add 8 million dollars of players to anyone's bottom six they are better.

Subtract Eller/Carter, add McCann at $5m per.

E-Rod signed for 2million last year on a one year deal. I'm sure the Pens could have locked him up for like 3 years at 1.5 or something of that nature, unless E-Rod was gonna try to bet on himself for a big contract. But iirc he signed very late with the Avs so the market wasn't there for him. if the Pens come at him late in that process and say hey we'll do two or three years at 1.5 per, I bet he does it.

Ifs and buts etc though

 

[Empoleon8771]

Rodrigues was allegedly not re-signed due to the coaching staff and their feelings on what he did in Game 6 of the playoff series against the Rangers according to local PIT media.

Even if this is true, that doesn't change the fact that Hextall did absolutely nothing to even soften the blow of losing ERod. The only forward additions he made that off-season were Archibald and Poehling. How were either of those guys going to replace Rodrigues?

Going into the 2022-2023 season, the Penguins bottom-6 was made up of Carter (38 and already showing signs of declining), Kapanen (who was visibly declining and didn't fit with the team), McGinn (who wasn't all that special in his first year and fell off in that year), Blueger (career worst year), Poehling (bust from Montreal) and Archibald (didn't play the entire year before due to COVID complications). How can you conclude anything but that being a gross mismanagement by Hextall?

 

[eXile3]

Uh, for real?

Uh yes.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Why can't we all just say "this team has been mismanaged at all levels ever since JR let Tom Wilson give him night terrors" and leave it at that? Hextall... Dubas... Sullivan... FSG... it's all middling-to-bad. And they are all guilty of more or less just shrugging their collocative shoulders and saying "we gotta assess... again!" for the last like seven years without actually doing much of anything. Or at least anything that ended up making any kind of dent.

It's like fighting over who your favorite member of O-Town was or something. They all suck.

There is some truth to this.

Rutherford knocked this team off course with his Tom Wilson obsession, as well as his inexplicable willingness to give up first round picks for middle six players like Brassard, Zucker, and recapturing Kapanen.

Hextall somehow turned an already aging team into an even older one by prioritizing Jeff Carter and Jeff Petry over Marino, Matheson, McCann, etc.

I still believe in Dubas, but the Graves and Jarry deals have blown up spectacularly in his face.

And while I think Sullivan is a good coach and that he still has the respect of the room, he's clearly out of ideas on the ice. He's let Reirden flounder with the power play for multiple years. There has been no real modification to the system. And there has been no adjustment to the team's consistent inconsistency.

Of course, this is why the end is always ugly for dynasties.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

There is some truth to this.

Rutherford knocked this team off course with his Tom Wilson obsession, as well as his inexplicable willingness to give up first round picks for middle six players like Brassard, Zucker, and recapturing Kapanen.

Hextall somehow turned an already aging team into an even older one by prioritizing Jeff Carter and Jeff Petry over Marino, Matheson, McCann, etc.

I still believe in Dubas, but the Graves and Jarry deals have blown up spectacularly in his face.

And while I think Sullivan is a good coach and that he still has the respect of the room, he's clearly out of ideas on the ice. He's let Reirden flounder with the power play for multiple years. There has been no real modification to the system. And there has been no adjustment to the team's consistent inconsistency.

Of course, this is why the end is always ugly for dynasties.

And there is a lot of truth to this, as well.

As for the bolded... it's never pretty. But it didn't have to be THIS chaotic and stupid, either. Sid Crosby is still a terrific player in this league and Malkin and Letang can still hold up their end. To me this isn't (yet) like when Mario simply bottomed out after eating gravy fries all lockout Sid's rookie year and couldn't make it happen anymore regardless of how much help he got. The core can still play. I mean... who knows next year, though. All the more reason to be bitter.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

And there is a lot of truth to this, as well.

As for the bolded... it's never pretty. But it didn't have to be THIS chaotic and stupid, either. Sid Crosby is still a terrific player in this league and Malkin and Letang can still hold up their end. To me this isn't (yet) like when Mario simply bottomed out after eating gravy fries all lockout Sid's rookie year and couldn't make it happen anymore regardless of how much help he got. The core can still play. I mean... who knows next year, though. All the more reason to be bitter.

I'll be completely honest, it's been much less chaotic than I thought it might be, even before the Hextall hiring.

A few years ago, I was fairly convinced that the wheels were going to fly off in spectacular fashion, that the Penguins would go from serious playoff team to top five pick in the span of one season. I figured Malkin and Letang would see their injury histories catch up with them and that Rutherford would wheel and deal so much that the Pens would be an utter mess.

I was actually glad that Rutherford left - though it would have been nice if he had done it in the offseason - because I thought he was the absolute wrong GM for a team about to reach a major transition point. Trader Jim is great for a contender. Not so much for a rebuild.

So as messy as the front office has been and the ownership change has been, it's been more of a slow descent into mediocrity rather than the catastrophic failure I was expecting.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'll be completely honest, it's been much less chaotic than I thought it might be, even before the Hextall hiring.

A few years ago, I was fairly convinced that the wheels were going to fly off in spectacular fashion, that the Penguins would go from serious playoff team to top five pick in the span of one season. I figured Malkin and Letang would see their injury histories catch up with them and that Rutherford would wheel and deal so much that the Pens would be an utter mess.

I was actually glad that Rutherford left - though it would have been nice if he had done it in the offseason - because I thought he was the absolute wrong GM for a team about to reach a major transition point. Trader Jim is great for a contender. Not so much for a rebuild.

So as messy as the front office has been and the ownership change has been, it's been more of a slow descent into mediocrity rather than the catastrophic failure I was expecting.

Ironically I think a lot of it has to do with how good the core was/still is. Especially Sid.

It's gonna be hard to outright implode with a healthy and productive Sid on your roster. And that's what he's largely been for this whole span of time we're referring to.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why can't we all just say "this team has been mismanaged at all levels ever since JR let Tom Wilson give him night terrors" and leave it at that? Hextall... Dubas... Sullivan... FSG... it's all middling-to-bad. And they are all guilty of more or less just shrugging their collocative shoulders and saying "we gotta assess... again!" for the last like seven years without actually doing much of anything. Or at least anything that ended up making any kind of dent.

It's like fighting over who your favorite member of O-Town was or something. They all suck.

I'm still trying to understand why Sullivan switched his mentality to a "top six scores, bottom six defends only" attitude when he had his greatest success (2016) with a roster where all 4 lines could score.

Instead of doubling down on what made 2016 successful, it's like he was all, "nah, I'd rather do the opposite and hope that results in wins".

 

[Gurglesons]

Why can't we all just say "this team has been mismanaged at all levels ever since JR let Tom Wilson give him night terrors" and leave it at that? Hextall... Dubas... Sullivan... FSG... it's all middling-to-bad. And they are all guilty of more or less just shrugging their collocative shoulders and saying "we gotta assess... again!" for the last like seven years without actually doing much of anything. Or at least anything that ended up making any kind of dent.

It's like fighting over who your favorite member of O-Town was or something. They all suck.

I dreamed about a player who's a mix of Brian Boyle's Child
Just a little touch of Jankowski's wild style
With Jeff Carter's smile
Throw in a body like Garrett Wilson's
You've got the star of my liquid dream (my liquid dreams)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dreamed about a player who's a mix of Brian Boyle's Child
Just a little touch of Jankowski's wild style
With Jeff Carter's smile
Throw in a body like Garrett Wilson's
You've got the star of my liquid dream (my liquid dreams)

Outstanding. No notes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Outstanding. No notes.

This is the Penguins if they were a boy band.

 

[SEALBound]

Gurgs, are you truly pro-Hextall or are you just anti-Dubas.

Hextall is one of the weirdest "hills to die on" in the Sid-Geno Penguins Era. Are you going to say that Sullivan was a mega-genius coach once he's gone? Is Byslma now a Jack Adams-worthy coach? Did Craig Patrick have the right idea all along? Was Gladams not as bad as we think? Did Marcel Goc deserve more than he got here?

Just really weird position to be taking so strongly.

 

[Pens1566]

Uh yes.

I mean, I literally listed two of them in the original post you quoted.

If reports are true, then Dubas is extremely constrained in exactly what moves he can/can't make.

When it appears that the staff is off limits, along with all of the "core" you really can only prune around the edges and hope there's a homerun somewhere in there.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I hope everyone's ready to hear about how the end of season run was all the result of Sullivan's mastermind. The team will be excited to build on the last month and a half. Another season is about to be wasted on that loser

 

[66-30-33]

I hope everyone's ready to hear about how the end of season run was all the result of Sullivan's mastermind. The team will be excited to build on the last month and a half. Another season is about to be wasted on that loser

If we keep Sully I wont be watching many games. Maybe 20?

 

[Gurglesons]

Gurgs, are you truly pro-Hextall or are you just anti-Dubas.

Hextall is one of the weirdest "hills to die on" in the Sid-Geno Penguins Era. Are you going to say that Sullivan was a mega-genius coach once he's gone? Is Byslma now a Jack Adams-worthy coach? Did Craig Patrick have the right idea all along? Was Gladams not as bad as we think? Did Marcel Goc deserve more than he got here?

Just really weird position to be taking so strongly.

Bylsma was a better coach than Sullivan.

Doesn’t mean it wasn’t time to fire him. Similar to Hextall versus Dubas at this point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm more interesting in the direction this team takes this off-season than I am with any specific moves they make. Even with the end of year surge getting them super close to a playoff spot, this team needs to get younger and begin the rebuild/retool. I don't mind if they intend on retooling by adding young NHLers while still remaining competitive, but they need to get younger and Dubas has done basically nothing so far to do that.

If this team plans on doing the same thing this off-season as they did last off-season (make more buy-low additions and sign some depth UFAs), I probably won't pay attention much next year. I want to see them actively focusing on getting the roster younger and rebuilding their depth and prospect pool.

Even if they make the playoffs this year or make it in the next few years, I still think their contention window is firmly closed and they need to be focusing on building for the future. I don't mind if that "building for the future" is focused on bringing in young NHLers and prospects that can help while Crosby and Malkin are still around, but they need to be explicitly focusing on the future.

 

[Zirakzigil]

I'm more interesting in the direction this team takes this off-season than I am with any specific moves they make. Even with the end of year surge getting them super close to a playoff spot, this team needs to get younger and begin the rebuild/retool. I don't mind if they intend on retooling by adding young NHLers while still remaining competitive, but they need to get younger and Dubas has done basically nothing so far to do that.

If this team plans on doing the same thing this off-season as they did last off-season (make more buy-low additions and sign some depth UFAs), I probably won't pay attention much next year. I want to see them actively focusing on getting the roster younger and rebuilding their depth and prospect pool.

Im curious as to if some of the prospects are ready to make the jump. Poulin, the guys from the jake trade, etc. Also be interesting if Ned is back. The 2x2 Carter contract is a given

 

[Empoleon8771]

Im curious as to if some of the prospects are ready to make the jump. Poulin, the guys from the jake trade, etc. Also be interesting if Ned is back. The 2x2 Carter contract is a given

I don't mind if this team is bad but what I do mind is if this team is bad and old and doesn't have anything to look forward to. The thing that frustrates me with this team is that they're painfully mediocre and not fun to watch while not offering any sort of hope for the future.

If this off-season is going to just be them acquiring a new version of Smith, signing a new version of Acciari and changing nothing else, what's even the point of watching? At least if you have some exciting young players, you can focus on them and get excited for the future.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas knows what he sees and knows as he said younger and better has to happen. With Carter, moving Smith, size on the back end with number 3. A fourth line that brings energy and grit. In the end, Malkin is sliding and has one more year. Sullivan will see new coaches and Dubas takes more control of things.

 

[HandshakeLine]

At the end of the day, you can only judge a GM based on the evidence at hand of what they actually did, and so far, there's really not much that Dubas has done. That's the most puzzling thing.

Sure, he says decent enough things in the pressers, but does he actually follow through? Mostly, no.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Getting rid of our dead weight and signing Lindholm coming off a down year would help the team considerably.

It'd make the 3rd line a scoring threat again, add a great RH faceoff guy, help us defensively at ES and on the PK, and help make the 2nd PP unit a little less anemic.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Do we think Eller is good? Are you bragging about Lars Eller?

Are we deflecting and not answering my original question?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

At the end of the day, you can only judge a GM based on the evidence at hand of what they actually did, and so far, there's really not much that Dubas has done. That's the most puzzling thing.

Sure, he says decent enough things in the pressers, but does he actually follow through? Mostly, no.

I don’t understand this. He’s been pretty active.

Smith, Acciari, Graves, Eller, Karlsson, Bemstrom, Ruhwedel out, Guentzel out, Bunting in. That’s a ton of moves for less than 12 months without even counting the Jarry contract.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Even if this is true, that doesn't change the fact that Hextall did absolutely nothing to even soften the blow of losing ERod. The only forward additions he made that off-season were Archibald and Poehling. How were either of those guys going to replace Rodrigues?

If you swapped Poehling for Carter at 4C I promise you we're a playoff team