Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[Ryder71]

Even if they go down he's still at a PPG player, still better than Trochek. Sure bring in Trocheck as a linemate to Geno but you gotta move Zucker or free up come cap somehow. But heading your 2C is not getting it done. He will have worse linemates and less PP time than he had in Carolina.

If your looking at him as your 2C you mys well just blow it up

He's barely a PPG player now, which still is impressive but in the following years that's not gonna be the case. I just don't think you can be a legit playoff contender with your top three centers being on the wrong side of 35.

 

[Al Smith]

Yes. The holy trinity of they had far better goaltending, our stars had issues (mostly injury related), and our depth underperformed their regular season while theirs overperformed (and continued to do so), with a side order of "run cold when in commanding positions" which you can interpret as a mental issue, or the natural consequence of only being able to keep up overperforming for so long, or both.

Considering how much the first two issues have been tied to luck, and the amount of luck needed to improve things there through trade and FA, that only really leaves the depth thing. Which I tie in to the way the reffing changes come playoff time and some weaknesses coming from having to go through the bargain bin for parts.


That sounds an awful lot like "trade all our bad players for their good players".

This is HF, where one bemoans a player's suckage, assumes the league's scouts haven't noticed, and then proposes trading him for another team's budding superstar or top-10 first round pick.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

He's barely a PPG player now, which still is impressive but in the following years that's not gonna be the case. I just don't think you can be a legit playoff contender with your top three centers being on the wrong side of 35.

He's always been a PPG player so until he isn't he is, if anything last season should be a weaker one than any after coming off a major surgery. Now he has a full offseason.

I am willing to bet that if he in in a Pens uni he will be much better than last season.

Age shouldn't mean anything- its all about talent. There is a big difference when 2 of those centers are generational talent. Guys like that just age differently b/c they were and always have been 2 steps above the competition

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the team and the fans should absolutely be open to change. Like Cole said.

...unless that change involves running off the 4th greatest player in franchise history who can absolutely still play. Especially if it's over like 1 or 2 million dollars on a roster with more than a couple chubby underperforming contracts.

 

[Deport Ogie]

...unless that change involves running off the 4th greatest player in franchise history who can absolutely still play. Especially if it's over like 1 or 2 million dollars on a roster with more than a couple chubby underperforming contracts.

But you have to consider extenuating circumstance. Like the roughly 3% chance to sign a player who scored 9 more points in 40 more games at his highest ever value.

 

[Peat]

I think the team and the fans should absolutely be open to change. Like Cole said.

...unless that change involves running off the 4th greatest player in franchise history who can absolutely still play. Especially if it's over like 1 or 2 million dollars on a roster with more than a couple chubby underperforming contracts.

Two wrongs don't make a right there,

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But you have to consider extenuating circumstance. Like the roughly 3% chance to sign a player who scored 9 more points in 40 more games at his highest ever value.

You just KNOW a stud horse Like Vince Trocheck is gonna run wild with the likes Danton Heinen, Jason Zucker and Sami's crotchfruit. Malkin was just holding them back.

Two wrongs don't make a right there,

Right. I'd much rather see them spend exorbitantly in FA for some complete unknown, instead. That makes it better.

 

[Deport Ogie]

The roster we have is what we have and man, there are positive changes to be made there. Ones that do not involve 71 Hopak dancing off to the Capitals or Rangers. This by rights should be one of the more tumultuous offseasons we've seen in some time. But that requires the GM office to be creative and aggresive and I've yet to see any evidence this particular FO has any desire to be either of those things.

Good lord, I almost called him Sleepy didn't I? I'm going to go re-evaluate some things.

 

[Andy99]

The roster we have is what we have and man, there are positive changes to be made there. Ones that do not involve 71 Hopak dancing off to the Capitals or Rangers. This by rights should be one of the more tumultuous offseasons we've seen in some time. But that requires the GM office to be creative and aggresive and I've yet to see any evidence this particular FO has any desire to be either of those things.

Good lord, I almost called him Sleepy didn't I? I'm going to go re-evaluate some things.

if Hextall doesn’t move one of our overpriced players off the roster at the draft, I’m going into Pens X territory on him lol…

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The roster we have is what we have and man, there are positive changes to be made there. Ones that do not involve 71 Hopak dancing off to the Capitals or Rangers. This by rights should be one of the more tumultuous offseasons we've seen in some time. But that requires the GM office to be creative and aggresive and I've yet to see any evidence this particular FO has any desire to be either of those things.

Good lord, I almost called him Sleepy didn't I? I'm going to go re-evaluate some things.

Things have the feeling of inevitability to me. But you implying that maybe we should at least see what he does first is valid. I don't WANT to hate Hextall. I just have a feeling I soon will and doubt his creativity and energy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Like I've been saying non-stop, things like sentimentality or past team results should have no impact on whether the Penguins re-sign Malkin. The question is simple: do you get better by letting Malkin walk than keeping Malkin? If no, you don't let Malkin walk. If you can get better by letting Malkin walk, due to either getting a better player (aka JT Miller) or by being able to use the saved cap space to become better in total, you let Malkin walk.

I don't think the fact that the Penguins have lost in the 1st round in the last 4 years is particularly relevant in discussing whether they need to re-sign Malkin.

 

[Flying Dego]

if Hextall doesn’t move one of our overpriced players off the roster at the draft, I’m going into Pens X territory on him lol…

Ya...I'll be morphing into a Pens X clone if Hextall doesn't make some attempt at improvements.

We have a plethora of guys who should be moved. Geno and Letang need resigned unless he pulls off something savvy.

If he resigns/keeps all of our meh guys with no attempt at actual change, I'll be done with him.

 

[Jacob]

Kapanen got the Ian Cole treatment- where even though he obviously wasn’t playing his best his treatment by the coaching staff just didn’t fit with how he was playing. Which to me means there’s a personal issue and Kapanen is gone regardless.

 

[K Fleur]

Malkin ending up on the Caps over money is laughingstock of the league Gen-X bankruptcy era Penguin shit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yikes, that is a ton of money for a buyout. He still has 3 years at $4.75 million left, so that buyout penalty will be 6 years.

I will say that he's exactly the kind of guy I'd talk to about a cheaper reclamation project style contract, I think he falls in that Heinen/Kase group from last year. Signing him and using Kapanen as a trade chip saves you cap space and likely gives you a decent free asset.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't really give a shit about Hextall one way or another. He's a slow, patient and methodical GM who was brought in to manage a team still apparently trying (???) to win Cups, despite now four straight 1st round exits. It seemed like the previous ownership hired him to sit and wait for the era to play itself out, then get to dismantling the roster and starting the rebuild process, but didn't want him to actually do any of that yet. If current ownership still wants to gun for Cups, they kept him around for... What reason exactly?

It feels less like Hextall's a terrible GM, and more like he's the wrong GM for what the team's trying to do. JR throwing a pissbaby tantrum and stomping off forced the previous owners to make a weird, on the spot decision.

I think this is a balanced and fair take that I pretty much agree with.

I fully admit I can't stand Kap anymore. But I genuinely think he's just some squirrely-brained, streaky 3rd liner who looks good when he's on a hot streak and dreadful when he's on a cold streak. Same caliber of player that E-Rod is. Different stylistically, but when it boils down to it, they're streaky 3rd liners.

He's nothing special, and if he didn't have a recognizable name and the previous GM didn't A. draft him and B. trade a bunch to reacquire him, people would've stopped giving a shit about him a long time ago.

HOG's just fiercely, borderline obsessively loyal to the players he's attached to, and has a visceral, seething hatred for all things Sully.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not at all a Kapanen believer at this point. But I also think @Jacob makes a good point about how he seems to be viewed by the coaching staff. Which is to say he seems to be the resident "guy to hold accountable." Sometimes even to frustrating degrees.

But then you also get some random reports here and there that the team is a huge advocate of his and thinks he can make a big leap in his development as a player. So some weird mixed signals with him.

 

[Turin]

Puljujärvi can't score with Mcd that's the red flag. Look what Kane has done with that opportunity

Neither could Eberle.

 

[dogthateats]

GCR
Dustin Brown Toews Carter
McGinn Blueger Simon
Erod DOC Kapanen

Dumo Subban
Matheson Pettersson
Ruhwedel Friedman
POJ

Jarry
Subban

 

[Peat]

Kapanen was given more rope and opportunities than his play deserved last season, not less.

 

[Darren McCord]

Kap for Pool party?

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Like I've been saying non-stop, things like sentimentality or past team results should have no impact on whether the Penguins re-sign Malkin. The question is simple: do you get better by letting Malkin walk than keeping Malkin? If no, you don't let Malkin walk. If you can get better by letting Malkin walk, due to either getting a better player (aka JT Miller) or by being able to use the saved cap space to become better in total, you let Malkin walk.

I don't think the fact that the Penguins have lost in the 1st round in the last 4 years is particularly relevant in discussing whether they need to re-sign Malkin.

In a vacuum, no, it shouldn't matter. But when it's one of the best players to ever play? Especially one who is still a point per game player and paced for 40 goals last year playing with less than ideal line mates, you have to think there are exceptions. Does getting JT Miller really make them a better team? Does it set them up better for the future? He would cost a lot. All Malkin costs is cap space. The Penguins are going to be at least mediocre until Crosby hangs them up, so why throw away even more assets for what might be a moderate upgrade at best for 1 year?

If you want future stars who want to stay in Pittsburgh in the future, who are willing to take pay cuts to help keep the team more competitive, you don't tell your current superstars to **** off over a million dollars a year. Loyalty begets loyalty. It's business but I don't want the Penguins to turn into the Golden Knights all of a sudden and being ruthless, especially if it doesn't even make them better necessarily.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kapanen was given more rope and opportunities than his play deserved last season, not less.

I'm not defending him. He was putrid (at least versus what was assumed predicated on prior season). Only saying that he seemed to be viewed differently and sometimes held to different standards. As previously mentioned much like Cole. Perhaps due to expectations? Sullivan did say he had another "elite" level he could reach, I suppose.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In a vacuum, no, it shouldn't matter. But when it's one of the best players to ever play? Especially one who is still a point per game player and paced for 40 goals last year playing with less than ideal line mates, you have to think there are exceptions. Does getting JT Miller really make them a better team? Does it set them up better for the future? He would cost a lot. All Malkin costs is cap space. The Penguins are going to be at least mediocre until Crosby hangs them up, so why throw away even more assets for what might be a moderate upgrade at best for 1 year?

If you want future stars who want to stay in Pittsburgh in the future, who are willing to take pay cuts to help keep the team more competitive, you don't tell your current superstars to **** off over a million dollars a year. Loyalty begets loyalty. It's business but I don't want the Penguins to turn into the Golden Knights all of a sudden and being ruthless, especially if it doesn't even make them better necessarily.

Will adding JT Miller make the team better? Absolutely. Does it set them up better for the future? Yeah, probably as well. You're either trading for Miller with an extension or with the plans to give him a long term extension, I don't know why you're making it like he'd be a 1 year rental.

Future super stars in 10-20 years aren't going to look back on this negotiation and say "they didn't pay Malkin when he was 36, so I'm not taking a paycut". That's a ridiculous claim to make. Letting Malkin walk because you can't agree on money is not being the Golden Knights, it's operating a team as it should be operating.

Saying future superstars will hate the Penguins in the future because they let a 36 year old Malkin walk makes as much sense as saying Crosby and Malkin would hate the Penguins because of how the Jagr situation turned out in Pittsburgh in the early 2000s. There are so many legitimate and real arguments to make for keeping Malkin, don't grasp at straws and make things up like "if you don't keep him, future superstars will see how you treated him".

 

[Coastal Kev]

if Hextall doesn’t move one of our overpriced players off the roster at the draft, I’m going into Pens X territory on him lol…

One? He should ship out every damn Dman outside of Matheson and Marino. Is it too early to trade Rust?