Salary Cap: Pens Salary and Signing thread: Dr StrangeDubas or How We Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Karlsson Watch

[Empoleon8771]

We'll never figure it out, but I'd be curious to see how big of a gap there is between Pittsburgh and San Jose. If it's not something substantial, I'd rather Dubas just bend to get it done. But hard to tell what's going on with so little information.

If the Penguins are offering Smith's RFA rights a 1st and the Sharks want Pickering and 2 1sts, that's a really big value gap. But if it's Smith and 1 1st vs Smith and 2 1sts? Why not just throw on a 2nd to get it done?

 

[Nakawick]

Also depends on retention. We and the Canes could have different amounts requested, or even the same 3rd party to retain a bit more. The cheaper he is the more room we have to swing future deals.

 

[The Old Master]

duby needs to set a deadline. if they cant get a deal done, he needs to move on before all our plan b targets are taken.
edit; when is the hearing with doc?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

We'll never figure it out, but I'd be curious to see how big of a gap there is between Pittsburgh and San Jose. If it's not something substantial, I'd rather Dubas just bend to get it done. But hard to tell what's going on with so little information.

If the Penguins are offering Smith's RFA rights a 1st and the Sharks want Pickering and 2 1sts, that's a really big value gap. But if it's Smith and 1 1st vs Smith and 2 1sts? Why not just throw on a 2nd to get it done?

A 50% markup isnt a big difference?

Thats not a “we’ll throw in some mud flaps” situation. That paying 45k for a car you think is worth 30k.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A 50% markup isnt a big difference?

Thats not a “we’ll throw in some mud flaps” situation. That paying 45k for a car you think is worth 30k.

I said throw on a 2nd, not throw on another 1st.

And if the option is to have Karlsson or not have Karlsson is based on paying that extra 2nd round pick, then I'm paying that extra 2nd round pick. Karlsson is a $100k car that is on sale for $50k due to the market, I'll pay $60k to make sure I get it because that's still worth the price of Karlsson.

 

[Malkinstheman]

duby needs to set a deadline. if they cant get a deal done, he needs to move on before all our plan b targets are taken.
edit; when is the hearing with doc?

August 4th. The second buyout period would open 3 days after the arbitration decision is released and then last for 48 hours.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I said throw on a 2nd, not throw on another 1st.

I said throw on a 2nd, not throw on another 1st.

And if the option is to have Karlsson or not have Karlsson is based on paying that extra 2nd round pick, then I'm paying that extra 2nd round pick. Karlsson is a $100k car that is on sale for $50k due to the market, I'll pay $60k to make sure I get it because that's still worth the price of Karlsson.

Gotcha. I read it as why not throw on a second as in second first rd pick.

 

[Nakawick]

duby needs to set a deadline. if they cant get a deal done, he needs to move on before all our plan b targets are taken.
edit; when is the hearing with doc?

Early August. His is on the last day of hearings.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think Grier has any leverage, but I also think that won't stop him from desperately hanging on to Karlsson in the hopes of landing some wild return. Maybe it happens as camp/pre-season get closer and Karlsson just wants out, but we'll see I guess.

I don't think Dubas has to blink, and I kind of don't want him to. f*** Grier, and the precedents set by the Duchene and Chychrun deals where dragging things out for like a year eventually works out.

 

[Pancakes]

We'll never figure it out, but I'd be curious to see how big of a gap there is between Pittsburgh and San Jose. If it's not something substantial, I'd rather Dubas just bend to get it done. But hard to tell what's going on with so little information.

If the Penguins are offering Smith's RFA rights a 1st and the Sharks want Pickering and 2 1sts, that's a really big value gap. But if it's Smith and 1 1st vs Smith and 2 1sts? Why not just throw on a 2nd to get it done?

Two firsts alone is way too much for EK imo. I'll be pissed if Dubas ends up paying that.

Your second deal would be tolerable I guess.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I read it as why not throw on a second as in second first rd pick.

No I just meant throw on a 2nd rounder. Don't meet their price but get close enough to get the ball rolling.

I still think Karlsson is worth it if the "value" the Penguins are giving up is Smith, a 1st and 2nd. That doesn't mean they should go fully stupid and offer up what San Jose wants, but I think there is probably some wiggle room still there that would still have the Penguins paying a good price for Karlsson while giving San Jose an offer they're satisfied with.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

No I just meant throw on a 2nd rounder. Don't meet their price but get close enough to get the ball rolling.

All good that makes sense

 

[Pancakes]

One problem with paying like three assets for EK as well is if you trade for EK you presumably want to contend, right? Goodbye trade deadline deals if we exhaust every single asset getting EK. That's just putting all your chips in on one player. You better be damned sure he's enough.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just want Karlsson cuz it'd be cool, and add some fun to a stale, boring, mediocre team. I'm not under any illusion that he'd be a 100pt blueliner here, or vault this team up several rungs in terms of contention.

I wouldn't give a haul to the Sharks, or go the extra mile to make Grier feel like he's walking away the clear winner. Like others have said, there's enough issues with this team to not go completely all-in on Karlsson. It's just the kind of deal you'd want as a fan to try and make the last couple years of the Sid era more fun.

 

[Malkinstheman]

One problem with paying like three assets for EK as well is if you trade for EK you presumably want to contend, right? Goodbye trade deadline deals if we exhaust every single asset getting EK. That's just putting all your chips in on one player. You better be damned sure he's enough.

Even if the 2024 and 2025 1sts get traded the Pens still have basically all their middle round picks. Deadline deals won't really require anything more than 2nds and 3rds imo

 

[Empoleon8771]

One problem with paying like three assets for EK as well is if you trade for EK you presumably want to contend, right? Goodbye trade deadline deals if we exhaust every single asset getting EK. That's just putting all your chips in on one player. You better be damned sure he's enough.

I don't think the Penguins will really have the cap space to do much at the trade deadline if they get Karlsson. They'll be so cash strapped that I don't think there is really much they can do.

The only players making more than $2 million who don't have some sort of trade protection are Granlund (who's 100% going in a Karlsson deal), Eller and Rutta. I don't think it's super likely that they'll have the flexibility to do anything at the deadline regardless.

I don't think they can make seriously aggressive moves to become a true top contender until Carter's contract is off the books and the cap starts rising more. Any moves they'd make during the deadline this year would likely be 2nd and 3rd round picks for bottom-6 guys on cheap deals.

 

[Pens x]

EK is f***ing up the entire off season.

 

[Malkinstheman]

If it's down to just a poker game I think Dubas gets it done. Difference makers like EK come along at most once a year and very rarely do they have PIT on their list. He'll try to get a better price since this team is barren in assets but won't lose EK because Carolina paid more imo

 

[Jobeycool]

EK fever running wild again woo

 

[PensandCaps]

Wonder if you could get Tatar for a mil or so.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

One note about Karlsson/Letang sharing the No. 1 defenseman label...

Last year was the first in a while that Karlsson led his team in ice time. Brent Burns led the Sharks for the first four years that Karlsson was on the team.

Karlsson is also used to sharing time with high-end defensemen. Last year, the Pens had four defensemen average 20+ minutes. In Karlsson's last year in Ottawa, that was also the case, with Ceci, Stone and Phaneuf all over 20 minutes.

He'll be fine being part of a top four rather than just a top two like he was last year.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

I forget who it was here but someone here called it exactly like it is in that Friedman update. Pittsburgh has their offer submitted, Carolina does too and San Jose is wanting a little more from both. It all comes down to who blinks first.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If Karlsson ends up here, I expect the top-4 to be playing like 50 minutes a night. Which is another reason I don't see any way it'd make sense unless Petry was on his way out, because it's f***ing dumb to pay him $6.25 million to play like 10-12 minutes a night.

 

[Pancakes]

Even if the 2024 and 2025 1sts get traded the Pens still have basically all their middle round picks. Deadline deals won't really require anything more than 2nds and 3rds imo

You may be right. You would have to be in this scenario because that's all we'd have picks-wise lol.

I don't think the Penguins will really have the cap space to do much at the trade deadline if they get Karlsson. They'll be so cash strapped that I don't think there is really much they can do.

The only players making more than $2 million who don't have some sort of trade protection are Granlund (who's 100% going in a Karlsson deal), Eller and Rutta. I don't think it's super likely that they'll have the flexibility to do anything at the deadline regardless.

I don't think they can make seriously aggressive moves to become a true top contender until Carter's contract is off the books and the cap starts rising more. Any moves they'd make during the deadline this year would likely be 2nd and 3rd round picks for bottom-6 guys on cheap deals.

True, there'd be very little wiggle room anyways if they make this deal.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think any trade at the deadline would be either to fill a hole that's created because of long-term injury or a rental to beef up an area of need. I don't think it'd be for a big splash. Dubas seems to be using the offseason to fill as many holes as necessary and then just do small tweaks by the deadline.