Post-Game Talk: Pens lose to the worst team in the league

[Buddy Bizarre]

I used to watch the NFL but no longer... but I still know enough to see tomlin is a hack
It must be a pittsburgh thing.... though the steelers are one step ahead of star players retiring and moving into the new era of talent.... Penguins are still one, two, three years from losing one of or both of sid and geno.

The future is going to be ugly for the penguins.

STill blows my mind that people defend Tomlin. I can't understand how the same people who dislike Sully, go to bat for Tomlin and think he's a-ok. They're basically cut from the same cloth.

 

[Rave7215]

Dont forget

-Eliminated by a rival (2018) in what was probably the only excusable loss
-Eliminated in a sweep in the Metro 3 slot (2019)

Once the 2019 loss happened, he should've been on thin ice. Sorry, but that was an embarrassment. To follow it up with the Montreal fiasco should've been the final nail. To think he has gotten TWO MORE chances after that, both of them first round flops, is absurd.

Once again, the culture of the organization is not about winning, or relentlessly striving to improve the team. It's about saying "Ahh, B2B cups is good enough, lets focus on legacy building from now on".

Also want to add that Sullivan is the only coach in NHL history to have a 2 goal lead in 3 straight games to close out a series and lose every one of them.

And then was promptly extended 3 more years because that's the kind of record you reward.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah, that's the other thing.

It's weird that everyone was afraid of Burke coming in and Burking it up, but he's been largely inconsequential.

Don't take this as me defending the Front Office.
But I was in alignment with how they set this up: let Hex focus solely on the hockey side and let Burke do the remainder...give quotes and interviews, etc. They were in the correct seats, but they still couldn't perform their jobs appropriately.


I do think they should have a similar setup when these 2 get the axe.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We will see. I imagine Crosby's rope gets very thin with this coach after this season.

Crosby might buy into the "the GM didn't add enough depth" argument rather than blame Sullivan's coaching.

But yeah, we'll see.

Personally, I think Hextall and Burke are gone and we're stuck with the genius smug idiot behind the bench for the next half decade.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Crosby might buy into the "the GM didn't add enough depth" argument rather than blame Sullivan's coaching.

But yeah, we'll see.

Personally, I think Hextall and Burke are gone and we're stuck with the genius smug idiot behind the bench for the next half decade.

Exactly how I read the tea leaves

Here will be the excuses for Sully in FSG's eyes. They'll at minimum give him another year, but I still think he's as safe as Jeff Jimmerson and we'll see him behind the bench until his contract is up. He's just a swell Bawhstohn fella!

- Goalie issues. Both performance and availability
- Bottom 6 issues, which will be directed to Hex in not getting better/different players
- Blueline was dinged for a good portion of the year

 

[AuroraBorealis]

the only problem with your statement: If Geno and Sid had played with better forwards and dman (or if you will guys that could score on all the glorious chances they set up), or lines were better arranged, or PP was drawn better or have some half decent bottom 6 that can draw attention...their stats would be way better than you would not be talking about having Tkachuk and Barkov ranking better...Next year different story

I'd argue their arrangement was pretty enabling. Sullivan allocated as much O-zone starts as you possibly can to the top six.
We were among the tops in the league in high danger shots, so nothing lacking there. Not to mention the heavy ES minutes.
Rakell, Zucker, Jake and Rust were all very healthy. 3 of them had strong seasons.

Sure the PP is poorly drawn up, but Crosby himself was not good on it this year. He was part of the problem for a big chunk of the year. He turned it up in the final 3rd of the season, but too little too late. Malkin was good at least though.

I don't think Malkin is on Barkov's level anymore. Saying that would be pretty disrespectful to Barkov and his 2-way game and how much he does that for that team.
He took like 30 fewer minor penalties, completely outclassed him defensively, was a core PK'er, and outscored Geno in points per game (he missed 14), despite getting 18% less O-zone starts at even-strength.
Similarly Thachuk is a better player than Crosby now. He was last season too. He's a +87 the last 2 seasons. 40+ goals in both of them.

It's more than fair to say had Barkov and Thachuk played here in their stead, they would do more under these conditions. We'd be better defensively, on the PK, PP and at ES goal differential imo.

That's not a slight on Sid and Geno. They're just far older and these are great players in Florida we're talking about. Thachuk is getting a lot of respect around the league now for good reason.
He's like Zucker on steroids. He drags them into the fight. I been watching their games down the stretch here. That dude's a monster. He's everywhere, winning battles and making high percentage choices. Motivates the bench.

 

[Pancakes]

Crosby is too nice to throw Sullivan under the bus. And I doubt he even would considering he's won two cups with him.

If he wants Sullivan fired he'll do it the old fashioned way and play really badly to start next year until whoever is Pens GM has no choice.

 

[Gurglesons]

[/QUOTE]

Crosby might buy into the "the GM didn't add enough depth" argument rather than blame Sullivan's coaching.

But yeah, we'll see.

Personally, I think Hextall and Burke are gone and we're stuck with the genius smug idiot behind the bench for the next half decade.

Maybe. I doubt it though. Crosby knows what really bad depth looks likes.

 

[Pens x]

Don't take this as me defending the Front Office.
But I was in alignment with how they set this up: let Hex focus solely on the hockey side and let Burke do the remainder...give quotes and interviews, etc. They were in the correct seats, but they still couldn't perform their jobs appropriately.


I do think they should have a similar setup when these 2 get the axe.

They did that because Hextall was afraid of his own shadow. Maybe the next GM won’t be such a coward?

 

[Andy99]

I'd argue their arrangement was pretty enabling. Sullivan allocated as much O-zone starts as you possibly can to the top six.
We were among the tops in the league in high danger shots, so nothing lacking there. Not to mention the heavy ES minutes.
Rakell, Zucker, Jake and Rust were all very healthy. 3 of them had strong seasons.

Sure the PP is poorly drawn up, but Crosby himself was not good on it this year. He was part of the problem for a big chunk of the year. He turned it up in the final 3rd of the season, but too little too late. Malkin was good at least though.

I don't think Malkin is on Barkov's level anymore. Saying that would be pretty disrespectful to Barkov and his 2-way game and how much he does that for that team.
He took like 30 fewer minor penalties, completely outclassed him defensively, was a core PK'er, and outscored Geno in points per game (he missed 14), despite getting 18% less O-zone starts at even-strength.
Similarly Thachuk is a better player than Crosby now. He was last season too. He's a +87 the last 2 seasons. 40+ goals in both of them.

It's more than fair to say had Barkov and Thachuk played here in their stead, they would do more under these conditions. We'd be better defensively, on the PK, PP and at ES goal differential imo.

That's not a slight on Sid and Geno. They're just far older and these are great players in Florida we're talking about. Thachuk is getting a lot of respect around the league now for good reason.
He's like Zucker on steroids. He drags them into the fight. I been watching their games down the stretch here. That dude's a monster. He's everywhere, winning battles and making high percentage choices. Motivates the bench.

So? I’m not sure I get the point. Thachuk and Barkov are also better than Bergeron and Krejci too…the Pens could still win with Sid and Geno if they had much better players outside of them on the roster, including goaltending…btw Florida was marginal team this year, like us, until they played Lyon in net and he was outstanding

 

[The Old Master]

how bout them bucco's

by midseason they will have traded any one that's any good an not on the ir

 

[Jaded-Fan]

by midseason they will have traded any one that's any good an not on the ir

Actually, this brings to mind my experience with being a many-year season ticket holder.

We had season tickets in the 80's for a while. But in 2004, after the NHL finally passed a salary cap and floor, I felt that it was time to reward the NHL with my money. And a lot of it over the years. I split a season ticket package with a CPA that was in my building.

We got lucky when just after the Pens won the Crosby lottery.

I held those tickets until this year. Even though they went up to almost $10,000 per year for two tickets, not including the post-season. We gave them up as we both started to travel more and agreed that it was too much to balance that many games with the travel and everything else.

But the point is that bringing in a Cap and Floor brought in two decades of season ticket sales that never would have happened otherwise.

With television revenues declining by the hour, I just don't see how the model that some leagues have lived by can continue into the future.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So? I’m not sure I get the point. Thachuk and Barkov are also better than Bergeron and Krejci too…the Pens could still win with Sid and Geno if they had much better players outside of them on the roster, including goaltending…btw Florida was marginal team this year, like us, until they played Lyon in net and he was outstanding

Yeah, I think folks focusing on whether Sid/Geno are as good as Tkachuk/Barkov are missing the overall issue with this club. The fact is Sid and Geno, even at their age, are still good *enough* if they're surrounded by the right mix.

Because go down the list of the teams that made the playoffs. In the East, Sid/Geno were more productive than the Bruins' top centers, they were better than the Canes' top players, about as productive collectively as the Devils' top two centers, definitely better than the Isles' top two players. The only teams that made the playoffs whose top two players were clearly ahead of the Pens are the Lightning and maybe the Leafs (although Matthews had a down year for him and didn't produce more than Sid).

What's the difference between them and the Pens? Everyone else on the roster.

 

[Pancakes]

The problem now is next year Sid is 36, Malkin 37.

How much longer can they keep this up. If they decline at all this team will be brutal.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So? I’m not sure I get the point. Thachuk and Barkov are also better than Bergeron and Krejci too…the Pens could still win with Sid and Geno if they had much better players outside of them on the roster, including goaltending…btw Florida was marginal team this year, like us, until they played Lyon in net and he was outstanding

No grand point. Just saying we need to pay more respect to other talents around the league and not be stuck in the past homers.
If McDavid didn't exist then Drai's point total takes a big hit and guess who's right there at the top of the heap for MVP consideration for the foreseeable future? Thackuk.

Boston has a lot of great contracts. Marchand at 6.125. 3.5M for Bergeron and Krejci combined is huge. 6.6M for 60 goal Pasta. 925k for Swayman. 1.275M for Orlov.
2.375 for Bertuzzi.
Sweeney has GM'd as well as one possibly could this year.

Of course the Pens could still make a run with Sid and Geno if the support pieces were there in our current vulnerable positions. Never claimed otherwise. It's a team sport.
You can say the same thing with almost any core trio. A trio alone will never sink a team if the GM loads up everywhere else, especially if they cost as little as ours do.

 

[Pancakes]

my current prediction for this off season is we get a new GM in there, they do some stuff, Sullivan stays, and we waste half of next season struggling again until Sullivan is fired. But unlike previous Pens teams, the new coach isn't able to coax a mid season playoff run out of them.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The problem now is next year Sid is 36, Malkin 37.

How much longer can they keep this up. If they decline at all this team will be brutal.

They will remain very good complimentary pieces.

Which is the point.

At this point the best thing that the Pens can do, both for the players and for the team who desperately needs a complete rebuild, is to trade them to teams that have players that they can compliment. Because there is zero chance that those players will be on this team.

Again, what direction do the Pens go?

Blow up the team and let Malkin, Crosby and Letang go for one more cup?

Or have a slow decline several year show where fans can cheer on their old heroes one more time on losing lousy teams. The Andrew McCutchen syndrome.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

my current prediction for this off season is we get a new GM in there, they do some stuff, Sullivan stays, and we waste half of next season struggling again until Sullivan is fired. But unlike previous Pens teams, the new coach isn't able to coax a mid season playoff run out of them.

If they fire Sully mid-season, then they're firing him before his new contract even kicks in.
I don't see it happening, but I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Pancakes]

They will remain very good complimentary pieces.

Which is the point.

At this point the best thing that the Pens can do, both for the players and for the team who desperately needs a complete rebuild, is to trade them to teams that have players that they can compliment. Because there is zero chance that those players will be on this team.

Again, what direction do the Pens go?

Blow up the team and let Malkin, Crosby and Letang go for one more cup?

Or have a slow decline several year show where fans can cheer on their old heroes one more time on losing lousy teams. The Andrew McCutchen syndrome.

I think you try again next year, preferably with a new coach and new gm in place.

 

[mephisto1812]

I'm assuming you weren't around for Gen X?

Not just you but I think a whole generation will probably follow suit with you because they never seen losing hockey and would not be used to it.

I enjoyed watching Gen X more than watching the team this year .

 

[BusinessGoose]

Actually, this brings to mind my experience with being a many-year season ticket holder.

We had season tickets in the 80's for a while. But in 2004, after the NHL finally passed a salary cap and floor, I felt that it was time to reward the NHL with my money. And a lot of it over the years. I split a season ticket package with a CPA that was in my building.

We got lucky when just after the Pens won the Crosby lottery.

I held those tickets until this year. Even though they went up to almost $10,000 per year for two tickets, not including the post-season. We gave them up as we both started to travel more and agreed that it was too much to balance that many games with the travel and everything else.

But the point is that bringing in a Cap and Floor brought in two decades of season ticket sales that never would have happened otherwise.

With television revenues declining by the hour, I just don't see how the model that some leagues have lived by can continue into the future.

I love hockey

I've never had season tickets or seen a Pens game in PIT

But I've gone to 5-20 games of whatever NHL team was within a couple hours of my living situation. Been to AHL games. And shared station tickets to ECHL. I used to watch as many games on TV or listen on radio while commuting.

I don't have the time to dedicate that much energy anymore. I think a lot of people are in this boat. Sure the teams still have very dedicated bases, but there's so much other stuff to distract in life now that being TEAM 24/7 is so difficult.

Caps and Floors are really a requirement to survive. Otherwise some teams just will fall into a neverending cycle of no money, no compete, even less money...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Again, what direction do the Pens go?

Blow up the team and let Malkin, Crosby and Letang go for one more cup?

Or have a slow decline several year show where fans can cheer on their old heroes one more time on losing lousy teams. The Andrew McCutchen syndrome.

Most likely 3 more years or whatever of this nonsense. Then they'll scramble to rebuild with the meager assets they have left to trade, creating a weak foundation.
And so to strengthen that foundation, the Pens will have to tack on years of pick accumulation before they're ready to go for deep runs again.

10+ years no sweat imo. I'm leaning towards 12 for feasible contender status. 2035.
IMO that could have been shaved to 2030 or 2031 if they did a full tear-down last summer though. Could have gotten really solid assets for Sid, Jake and Jarry. They would have never given out the long-term deals to Rust, Rak, Letang and Geno, and became a dumping ground for even more pick hoarding.

 

[LOGiK]

If they fire Sully mid-season, then they're firing him before his new contract even kicks in.
I don't see it happening, but I'd love to be wrong.

Can't he do a lateral steigy move to something in the office like dictating emails in his despot type attitude?
He doesnt have to be coach does he?

DOES HE?!?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Caps and Floors are really a requirement to survive. Otherwise some teams just will fall into a neverending cycle of no money, no compete, even less money...

Unless you’re the Arizona Coyotes.

 

[Extra Texture]

Also want to add that Sullivan is the only coach in NHL history to have a 2 goal lead in 3 straight games to close out a series and lose every one of them.

And then was promptly extended 3 more years because that's the kind of record you reward.

Its shockingly bad. I didnt even realize we were that f***ing atrocious we were with a lead last year against the Rangers.

This organization just loves "its guys". These clowns in the Pitt media need to start roasting this no-ideas, wilting, aphorism-spouting fraud we have as a coach.