Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Turin]

For all the bitching about Sullivan and young players you guys have less patience than Sully lol. Kid has 2 ok games to start his career and you want him sent down.

 

[Andy99]

Develop in Wilkes being some kind of hyperbole

Well at least Sullivan isn’t there lol

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

McG's gonna have to play under Sullivan at some point, is the real issue imo.

Dude's never gonna be a star player. He's, at best, a Hornqvist/Landeskog/Kunitz type of complimentary guy whose value comes from being added to a line, not in a vacuum. If the requirement for getting an NHL spot and being allowed to learn at this level is to already be a more or less finished prospect, well, then maybe the whole approach is wrong there.

Did people think he was gonna like, come in and be exceptional? This place is like that "no take, only throw" meme. People scream for Sullivan to give younger players a shot, rightfully so, but then they'll parrot the same bullshit that allows the coach to do this over and over like "gotta earn it" or whatever.

Send him down, sure, that's fine. But again, he's gonna have to play for Sullivan unless the team plans to stash him away in WBS until like 2027--and I assume he'll want out by then.

 

[Andy99]

For all the bitching about Sullivan and young players you guys have less patience than Sully lol. Kid has 2 ok games to start his career and you want him sent down.

I want him to be better than DOC considering where he was selected and who we traded for him…I’m willing to be patient and invest more time in his development…his current usage is something I’ve been opposed to from the start

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It isn't a matter of patience. If Groats is gonna get like 10ish minutes a game then a scratch then he's much better suited to just playing top minutes in WB/S and building his game. It's not like there aren't things he can work on and he's not going to get much done from the bench or with minimal TOI every night. I'm not even going to sit here and say that Sullivan is massively screwing this up or whatever... he legit hasn't done much. I don't think dude is gonna be a star or anything but better to give him a chance to try some things and build confidence.

 

[MrBrightside]

If Blomqvist and Nedeljkovic perform well enough I wonder if we could trade Jarry at the deadline

They'd trade him right now if they could find a taker. That's the issue.

 

[Darren McCord]

For all the bitching about Sullivan and young players you guys have less patience than Sully lol. Kid has 2 ok games to start his career and you want him sent down.

More so I don’t want him on the bench or puustinen sent down.

I want them to waive a guy like Accari but that won’t happen. So what do they do?

They'd trade him right now if they could find a taker. That's the issue.

I hope the more goalie extension that happen the less negative value he has.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1845125202931269838

A bit surprised by this, thought they'd give Jarry one more shot. Definitely the right choice, this team can't afford to piss away a single point

I mean, he made some crazy high danger saves... like a lot of them. We could have easily lost 7-6, etc.

Our defense was still shit so... It all depends what extreme shows up tonight. I don't he'll stop that kind of peppering every night.

 

[Turin]

It’s so obvious that Sullivan has no time for Jarry. Just waive him or something.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah surprised too though Sullivan has showed more willingness to change his goalies than he is to alter forward lines or D pairs when needed…agree it’s the right move

Someone else is back too lol…right move to remove McG but I don’t want him in the press box…send him to Wilkes…can I say again how awful Letang has been and should not be on the first pair getting those minutes lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1845126147052626200

"We need to get younger. Last season a big part of why we got hot down the stretch was having all those young legs in the lineup giving us energy"

Solution: scratch all young players and ice the oldest lineup we possibly can.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, he made some crazy high danger saves... like a lot of them. We could have easily lost 7-6, etc.

Our defense was still shit so... It all depends what extreme shows up tonight. I don't he'll stop that kind of peppering every night.

I thought Gryz had a good game.

Wish they were going with the Gryz - EK pairing.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

It’s so obvious that Sullivan has no time for Jarry. Just waive him or something.

Who is that as your avatar? I keep thinking it is Legato from Trigun but it clearly isn't.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It’s so obvious that Sullivan has no time for Jarry. Just waive him or something.

I keep telling myself they are waiting for Ned to get healthy and then something will break loose.

Because yeah... the situation as-is seems... weird.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think it's fine to send McG down and let him get big minutes as "the guy" on the team; top line, top PP, etc. But I also think it'd be fine for his development to play him at the NHL level and let him learn on the job from guys like Sid and Geno every day in practice. I think you also kinda risk a hit to the kid's confidence after screwing him around for two games, scratching him a third, then sending him down. /shrug

The real wrench in the machine here, as always, is Sullivan. He actually has to give McG minutes, allow him to play through inevitable growing pains, and not just demand excellence/production from the guy--regardless of usage--right outta the gate.

fwiw, I think McG's been fine through two games given his role/linemates. McG's got 1 SOG through two games getting ~10 minutes a night alongside Eller and no PP time. Rakell has 2 SOG through two games alongside Geno and getting 2nd PP time.

-edit- biffed some stats

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it's fine to send McG down and let him get big minutes as "the guy" on the team; top line, top PP, etc. But I also think it'd be fine for his development to play him at the NHL level and let him learn on the job from guys like Sid and Geno every day in practice. I think you also kinda risk a hit to the kid's confidence after screwing him around for two games, scratching him a third, then sending him down. /shrug

The real wrench in the machine here, as always, is Sullivan. He actually has to give McG minutes, allow him to play through inevitable growing pains, and not just demand excellence/production from the guy--regardless of usage--right outta the gate.

fwiw, I think McG's been fine through two games given his role/linemates. McG's got 1 SOG through two games getting ~10 minutes a night alongside Eller and no PP time. Rakell has 2 SOG through two games alongside Geno and getting 2nd PP time.

-edit- biffed some stats

Yeah, I don’t get the concept that “he has to go down”.

Teams play top prospects at 20-21 on their rosters all the time.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not saying you guys don't have a point. I think that a lot of how a player can develop is of course case to case. Some guys might react well to playing a minimal role and seeing the bench a lot so long as they get to practice with and play against (again in a minimal role) NHLers. But I dunno... ya'll are REALLY confident that Groats is gonna pan out if this trajectory continues? You said yourselves and I think we all saw that he's promising but still has a lot of raw parts to his game especially offensively. That kinda practically screams "AHL" right? That's more or less what it's there for.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think it's fine to send McG down and let him get big minutes as "the guy" on the team; top line, top PP, etc. But I also think it'd be fine for his development to play him at the NHL level and let him learn on the job from guys like Sid and Geno every day in practice. I think you also kinda risk a hit to the kid's confidence after screwing him around for two games, scratching him a third, then sending him down. /shrug

The real wrench in the machine here, as always, is Sullivan. He actually has to give McG minutes, allow him to play through inevitable growing pains, and not just demand excellence/production from the guy--regardless of usage--right outta the gate.

fwiw, I think McG's been fine through two games given his role/linemates. McG's got 1 SOG through two games getting ~10 minutes a night alongside Eller and no PP time. Rakell has 2 SOG through two games alongside Geno and getting 2nd PP time.

-edit- biffed some stats

This is my issue with the McGroarty scratching. It's 2 games. Why does this club refuse to give youngsters more than 2 games to show something? Why is their leash so short?

Veterans can look like shit for 20 games and still get their top line gigs (looking at you, Rust). Guys like Acciari can look pedestrian for an entire season and be guaranteed a lineup spot. But if you're a youngster you have to show something within a couple of games or you're out?

Whatever happened to letting them get used to the NHL speed? It takes more than 2 games to do that. Give him the month of October where he's getting regular minutes and THEN decide if he's ready or not. Not this stupid bullshit Sullivan "you better impress me in those 10 minutes after 2 games or else" stuff.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

This is my issue with the McGroarty scratching. It's 2 games. Why does this club refuse to give youngsters more than 2 games to show something? Why is their leash so short?

Veterans can look like shit for 20 games and still get their top line gigs (looking at you, Rust). Guys like Acciari can look pedestrian for an entire season and be guaranteed a lineup spot. But if you're a youngster you have to show something within a couple of games or you're out?

Whatever happened to letting them get used to the NHL speed? It takes more than 2 games to do that. Give him the month of October where he's getting regular minutes and THEN decide if he's ready or not. Not this stupid bullshit Sullivan "you better impress me in those 10 minutes after 2 games or else" stuff.

You're 100% correct... you and BFD both. But that's the reality at the NHL level for the Pittsburgh Penguins and a big reason I just preferred to start him in the AHL even though he definitely won a spot in camp. But I mean... you guys HAVE been watching, right?

He'll have to play for Sullivan eventually. But give the kid a chance to at least build a game up that Sullivan can inevitably erode, first.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm just more or less venting frustration because we all knew this was gonna happen the second Sullivan said some dumb shit about how integral PKing ability is for a young player to learn and all that.

The issue isn't whether it's better that he's getting (actually getting, not just appearing on the lineup card) 3rd line minutes in the NHL, or getting top guy minutes in WBS. It's that we have a coach who pretty much demands excellence from the hop from young guys, and that's not a realistic approach to development imo.

Again, I'm fine with sending him down to get top line minutes and top PP minutes. I just think the second he's recalled, he's gonna be back to getting ~10 minutes a night. Short of a situation like DOC's where injuries force him up the lineup and someone like Sid or Geno says "I like this guy, keep him", I think McG's always just kinda gonna be in no man's land under Sullivan.

It's been two games. His line looked okay against the Rangers when the team got stomped. He looked fine in the second game too. I think we're kinda falling into the "well he didn't kill it out there immediately, so off to WBS" thing that we've all criticized Sullivan for, for years.

-edit- Basically, tldr; I hate this coach.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

-edit- Basically, tldr; I hate this coach.

This pretty much sums up any discussion. PP woes? Defensive woes? Jarry sucks? Rookies don't play? Line combinations?

Insert the above.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean speaking for myself I'm coming from a "I want the team's top prospect to pan out" POV. I think he's been fine but he's playing in an environment that was never going to be conducive to actively working on his game. And frankly I think Mike Sullivan is a sub-par developmental coach and I'd rather he avoid coming up under him as much as possible. Shit man... it seems like the Penguins are actively working much harder building up their developmental and farm system than their NHL roster so it's probably a sum win, anyway.

 

[Gurglesons]

This pretty much sums up any discussion. PP woes? Defensive woes? Jarry sucks? Rookies don't play? Line combinations?

Insert the above.

Let’s give Sullivan some credit. It seems like he finally has realized Jarry sucks after convincing our GM to sign him for 5 years and 5 + mil.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sullivan and FSG/Dubas, regardless of context or situation.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also I didn’t even put together that the reason Gryz is here is because he was McAvoy’s partner and McAvoy’s is related to Sully.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'm not thrilled with the McG scratching... but with Rust healthy who, realistically, was MS going to scratch? Certainly not a vet on the 4th line. And not the dude that just scored two goals.