Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Ugene Magic]

I would be putting Zucker back with Geno.

But I don't see a soft buy for him. Especially if they do any retaining on him.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Lol... The talk always reverts back to getting ex-pens back or getting guys who would have be interesting five years ago

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd 100% rather give McGroarty or Koivunen any spot that you'd be trading for Zucker to fill over trading for Zucker, even if the young guys aren't ready yet.

 

[SEALBound]

Not a fan of him but Zegras seems like a buy-low type that’s up Dubas’ alley. A cheaper option might be Krebs, Jokiharju or Lundkqvist in Dallas.

I think what is making Zegras a "buy low" candidate would be compounded here under Sullivan making him a cap dump by the end of the season.

 

[IcedCapp]

I'd 100% rather give McGroarty or Koivunen any spot that you'd be trading for Zucker to fill over trading for Zucker, even if the young guys aren't ready yet.

Yeah but if they were gonna use those guys, they have no reason not to right now

 

[Peat]

I will continue to repeat my belief that a serious Penguins team needs 3 new forwards.

Or, in other words, in a situation where trading for Zucker makes sense, you can do that and still look at getting McGroarty up to play on a meaningful third line.

 

[SEALBound]

I will continue to repeat my belief that a serious Penguins team needs 3 new forwards.

Or, in other words, in a situation where trading for Zucker makes sense, you can do that and still look at getting McGroarty up to play on a meaningful third line.

I think 3 is a lofty goal no matter how rational it may be. I don't think it's unrealistic to suggest two though but I think that will require two things: a forward going out with Pettersson and a new forward coming back and we need another forward to get injured and for the replacement to force Sullivan's hand.

Example: Pettersson+DOC for Pettersson + 1st, Parssinen (as my example) for a 3rd. Nieto gets hurt, and Pono steps up.

Rakell-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Tomasino
Parssinen-Lizotte-Beauvillier
Pono-Acciari-Glass

POJ-Letang
Pickering-Karlsson
Graves-Gryz-Pettersson

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

No thanks on Zucker

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Why would the Penguins be paying to get rid of him?

Hayes was acquired in the first place because St. Louis paid basically a 2nd and 3rd for him. Why would the Penguins then trade him to get rid of him? He was brought in specifically because St. Louis paid us to take him.

I am not saying that we would do that. I am saying that Hayes cannot be moved off this team now unless we pay handsomely to do so, or we eat more cap space and send him down. That was my point. He is the de facto 13th forward until further notice.

Emp, you seem perfectly content with this roster with the likes of Anthony Beauvillier and Kevin Hayes et al. but I sincerely hope Dubas is not thinking along the same lines.

This roster is flawed, with the middle forwards a big issue right now. But we are clearly good enough to make the playoffs. Dubas has a very difficult task, made even more difficult by his head coach's nightly lineup decisions.

Whether it is by promotion (which again is going to be difficult unless we waive some bodies) or by trade, we need help up front. The first line can only be hot for a finite period of time. Malkin's line needs a right-winger who is both talented enough to produce (like a Tomasino) AND a player this coach can trust (like a Glass). Not easy to find.

And no, I don't want Jason Zucker back. Been there, done that. No thanks.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think 3 is a lofty goal no matter how rational it may be. I don't think it's unrealistic to suggest two though but I think that will require two things: a forward going out with Pettersson and a new forward coming back and we need another forward to get injured and for the replacement to force Sullivan's hand.

Example: Pettersson+DOC for Pettersson + 1st, Parssinen (as my example) for a 3rd. Nieto gets hurt, and Pono steps up.

Rakell-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Tomasino
Parssinen-Lizotte-Beauvillier
Pono-Acciari-Glass

POJ-Letang
Pickering-Karlsson
Graves-Gryz-Pettersson

The fact that you still have Beauvillier in your lineup stuns me! I thought it was only Emp who was a fan of his. What am I missing with this guy? He skates around like he lost his head in a duel. He scores a goal every month. LOOKS like he is skating fast, but is more quick than fast. Is not the hardest worker, although he should be. Can't kill penalties. Is useless on the power play. Is not a big hitter or even a hitter for show, et al.

In other words, he brings zero to the table. It baffles me that Sullivan is sticking with him. Puljujarvi is even faster than Beauvillier, it just takes more time to get there.

I can understand why Sullivan keeps Nieto and O'Connor in the lineup: they remind him of himself. Nieto is who he was, O'Connor is likely who he wanted to become as a player. But Beauvillier? Not even Kent Hughes, who has brought back a lot of his ex-clients (save for Letang, though if rumors are accurate not for a lack of trying), is interested in Beauvillier.

Can we just waive him and move on already? He could actually help Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. Because he sure as shit cannot help the parent club.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I am not saying that we would do that. I am saying that Hayes cannot be moved off this team now unless we pay handsomely to do so, or we eat more cap space and send him down. That was my point. He is the de facto 13th forward until further notice.

Emp, you seem perfectly content with this roster with the likes of Anthony Beauvillier and Kevin Hayes et al. but I sincerely hope Dubas is not thinking along the same lines.

This roster is flawed, with the middle forwards a big issue right now. But we are clearly good enough to make the playoffs. Dubas has a very difficult task, made even more difficult by his head coach's nightly lineup decisions.

Whether it is by promotion (which again is going to be difficult unless we waive some bodies) or by trade, we need help up front. The first line can only be hot for a finite period of time. Malkin's line needs a right-winger who is both talented enough to produce (like a Tomasino) AND a player this coach can trust (like a Glass). Not easy to find.

And no, I don't want Jason Zucker back. Been there, done that. No thanks.

This team is rebuilding and all I care about is adding youth and young talent to both the NHL team and prospect pool. Their sole focus should be building for the future, not trying to squeak into a playoff spot as a 7th or 8th seed and getting embarrassed in round 1 to a clearly better team.

 

[Malkinstheman]

NHL GMs are special man

 

[KrisLetAngry]

He was basically done last season. There is no turnaround under Sullivan for Kevin Hayes. We will have to trade a valuable pick or prospect to get rid of him now.

Pencil him in as the 13th forward next season. OR, eat more cap space and send him to the AHL to finish off his playing days.

Why would the Penguins be paying to get rid of him?

Hayes was acquired in the first place because St. Louis paid basically a 2nd and 3rd for him. Why would the Penguins then trade him to get rid of him? He was brought in specifically because St. Louis paid us to take him.

I am not saying that we would do that. I am saying that Hayes cannot be moved off this team now unless we pay handsomely to do so, or we eat more cap space and send him down. That was my point. He is the de facto 13th forward until further notice.

Emp, you seem perfectly content with this roster with the likes of Anthony Beauvillier and Kevin Hayes et al. but I sincerely hope Dubas is not thinking along the same lines.

This roster is flawed, with the middle forwards a big issue right now. But we are clearly good enough to make the playoffs. Dubas has a very difficult task, made even more difficult by his head coach's nightly lineup decisions.

Whether it is by promotion (which again is going to be difficult unless we waive some bodies) or by trade, we need help up front. The first line can only be hot for a finite period of time. Malkin's line needs a right-winger who is both talented enough to produce (like a Tomasino) AND a player this coach can trust (like a Glass). Not easy to find.

And no, I don't want Jason Zucker back. Been there, done that. No thanks.

This team is rebuilding and all I care about is adding youth and young talent to both the NHL team and prospect pool. Their sole focus should be building for the future, not trying to squeak into a playoff spot as a 7th or 8th seed and getting embarrassed in round 1 to a clearly better team.

I think we all would have preferred to have drafted better and have made different trades when we traded draft picks.

I don't think any of us are happy with the roster. What Emp and I are happy about is we had cap space and we got an asset for it instead of filling it with a long term contract.

 

[BusinessGoose]

If you aren't legit top ten team, there's really no reason to have 33+ year old unskilled vets unless they have real leadership like guerin or cullen for young guys to learn something from

Spoiler: our "best" players are NOT actually good leaders, but that's okay

Put cheap/ELC youth out if you're gonna be ineffective anyway... Acciaris of the world should be filling out effective rosters with some sort of intangible that those teams might think they have a need for.

He brings NOTHING of use to a bottom 15 team that is at the cap maximum already

 

[Andy99]

Sullivan is so stupid…Glass has been a total failure on L2 and so has DOC….Tomasino got like 5 games there…give him a little more time, patience…lol

 

[SomeDude]

Sullivan is so stupid…Glass has been a total failure on L2 and so has DOC….Tomasino got like 5 games there…give him a little more time, patience…lol

It took him, what, 3 years to finally put Rakell with Sid?

Sully gets it right eventually. Just give him a couple seasons.

 

[eXile3]

This team is rebuilding and all I care about is adding youth and young talent to both the NHL team and prospect pool. Their sole focus should be building for the future, not trying to squeak into a playoff spot as a 7th or 8th seed and getting embarrassed in round 1 to a clearly better team.

Someone should tell the GM. I think he’s unaware.

 

[SEALBound]

The fact that you still have Beauvillier in your lineup stuns me! I thought it was only Emp who was a fan of his. What am I missing with this guy? He skates around like he lost his head in a duel. He scores a goal every month. LOOKS like he is skating fast, but is more quick than fast. Is not the hardest worker, although he should be. Can't kill penalties. Is useless on the power play. Is not a big hitter or even a hitter for show, et al.

In other words, he brings zero to the table. It baffles me that Sullivan is sticking with him. Puljujarvi is even faster than Beauvillier, it just takes more time to get there.

I can understand why Sullivan keeps Nieto and O'Connor in the lineup: they remind him of himself. Nieto is who he was, O'Connor is likely who he wanted to become as a player. But Beauvillier? Not even Kent Hughes, who has brought back a lot of his ex-clients (save for Letang, though if rumors are accurate not for a lack of trying), is interested in Beauvillier.

Can we just waive him and move on already? He could actually help Wilkes-Barre/Scranton. Because he sure as shit cannot help the parent club.

I guess I'm not as down on Beauvillier as others. That's not an afidavid stating I think he's the best player on the team but at the same time, I think he has all of the skill sets we would typically want in a player. I actually quite liked him with Sid because he was a shot-producing machine. He's tied for 5th on the team in goals with 8, 1 behind Bunting, and 2 behind Sid. Pacing for 18. For the cost, he's a decent bottom 6 scoring solution.

For me it's not Beau vs Puljujarvi. It should be Puljujarvi vs Nieto or even Acciari.

DOC is someone I think is smart to sell while the perceived value is still high.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Someone should tell the GM. I think he’s unaware.

All of the moves this team has been making are rebuilding moves dating back to the Guentzel trade.

 

[BusinessGoose]

All of the moves this team has been making are rebuilding moves dating back to the Guentzel trade.

Well, they are semi commital... So the narrative could be spun as rebuilding if the team sucked, or as good future moves if it worked out

It's not a rebuild right now. Maybe a retool. We will see how it progresses.

 

[SEALBound]

Someone should tell the GM. I think he’s unaware.

POJ, Tomasino, Glass with a 3rd and a 6th, 2nd+3rd from Hayes, and Puljujarvi. All under 26. Smith out for a 2nd. Eller out for a 3rd and a 5th

I think he knows.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No thanks on Zucker

Like I mean... I get it. I was never much of a fan.

But to those that actually want them to try a little this year... that's about what you are looking at. Or nothing.

 

[SEALBound]

Well, they are semi commital... So the narrative could be spun as rebuilding if the team sucked, or as good future moves if it worked out

It's not a rebuild right now. Maybe a retool. We will see how it progresses.

The goal is (as has been explained on numerous occasions) to compete as best we can now with minor trades and low-risk signings while collecting young players and draft picks for the future. Yes, it's a tough thing to balance and it's the best of neither world. But the fact is, the organization committed itself to trying to be competitive while Sid is here.

It's not a rebuild. It won't be a rebuild until Sid and Geno are retired. I guess you can call it a retool of sorts. Bringing in POJ, Glass, Tomasino, etc are in that mold. Fact is though, what's been done this year has cost us VERY little. If everyone performs at their average, it's a WC2 team that will likely get run over by New Jersey or they can be a big surprise if everyone heats up. Who knows. Likely they are where they were last year.

But that doesn't mean the overall goal of "compete now as best we can while building for the future" doesn't exist. Literally everything since the Guentzel has been geared to that specific goal.

 

[molon labe]

Put cheap/ELC youth out if you're gonna be ineffective anyway... Acciaris of the world should be filling out effective rosters with some sort of intangible that those teams might think they have a need for.

He brings NOTHING of use to a bottom 15 team that is at the cap maximum already

Agreed.

Acciari would look great with Florida. Makes no sense here. Roster construction has never made much sense. Say one thing, then go sign Jarry and Graves to lifetime contracts. Then proceed to ignore the offensive side of the puck. Then wonder why the team isn't performing...then claim we're trying to build for the now and future (as if the now doesn't require more attention/offense)...

Quite frankly it's seemed like a lot of, whatever falls in my lap sorta deal. Cake and eat it to. Seems like the front office really is ready to trash the season away - only to blame the under performance of players that were never capable anyway. Write it off, MAYBE fire Sully (lol) - then keep on keeping on next year. They truly don't care folks. Watch for some Sid/Geno highlights or just carry some apathy and it gets easier.

This isn't a serious team and it's going to take a lot of moves that are simply not even remotely in motion to fix.

 

[Gurglesons]

Every goalie signing makes Jarry's deal more and more moveable. It's insane.