Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[SEALBound]

DOC isn't really young. 27 in June means he's basically mid career for a bottom 6 guy.

Fair. "Young" relative to the Penguins. I would say 27 still counts as relatively young in the league. 32+ is when you start to get "old".

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh I wonder if Vancouver would be interested in St. Ivany for Hoglander, or something around that. They're allegedly looking for a RD with size and St. Ivany could be falling out of favor here.

DOC isn't really young. 27 in June means he's basically mid career for a bottom 6 guy.

Yeah my thought with O'Connor is that he should be reasonably cheap to retain (like $2.5 million for 2-3 years at most) and I like how he looks on the 3rd line as a RWer for something like Hoglander-Lizotte-O'Connor. That said, he's such a replaceable part that you move him for a good return if you can get a good return for him.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not entirely sold on Hoglander being anything more than bottom-6 fodder, or maybe a third wheel with Geno and Tomasino, but DOC is hot garbage. If someone's offering a 2nd, you try your best to stop laughing long enough to file the paperwork, then go back to laughing hysterically.

-edit- I should clarify, DOC's hot garbage in a top-9 role. He's a whatever 4th liner. He just simply doesn't have the ability with the puck on his stick to be a threat to score or be able to distribute the puck to his better linemates once he's gotten it on the forecheck or in a puck battle. /shrug

Weird take.

DOC has been a great player for us. A lot of what we missed the past few years.

In no world should he be a Penguin after the deadline though.

 

[Darren McCord]

I'm not entirely sold on Hoglander being anything more than bottom-6 fodder, or maybe a third wheel with Geno and Tomasino, but DOC is hot garbage. If someone's offering a 2nd, you try your best to stop laughing long enough to file the paperwork, then go back to laughing hysterically.

-edit- I should clarify, DOC's hot garbage in a top-9 role. He's a whatever 4th liner. He just simply doesn't have the ability with the puck on his stick to be a threat to score or be able to distribute the puck to his better linemates once he's gotten it on the forecheck or in a puck battle. /shrug

DOC has been good and also used terribly. This team refuses to use the net front and only focuses on pretty deflection on the side. He is coached in the worst possible way.

DOC literally looks like a different player on the PK because its not sullivans garbage 5v5 system or lack thereof. I have not doubt he would look much more competent off this team under another coach.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

DOC has been good and also used terribly. This team refuses to use the net front and only focuses on pretty deflection on the side. He is coached in the worst possible way.

DOC literally looks like a different player on the PK because its not sullivans garbage 5v5 system or lack thereof. I have not doubt he would look much more competent off this team under another coach.

DOC's trash, man. I'm fine, happy even, to keep him and play him over the Nieto, Acciari, Hayes, etc. losers but he's just a younger Acciari. Another loser. /shrug

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Meh. I suspect Hoglander and DOC will be about equally effective on this roster.

Hoglander younger and with better pedigree, I suppose. Both have around the same amount of points in their one "breakout" season. Both have played large swaths with marquee players and been... so-so. Advantage Hoglander re: goal scoring I guess.

As has been stated above... if this is a Tomo for a 4th type deal whatever. If it's the centerpiece of a larger deal then f*** right off with all that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Meh. I suspect Hoglander and DOC will be about equally effective on this roster.

Yeah, probably. Hoglander's at least got a 24g season under his belt, which is about as many goals as DOC has in his entire career. Hopefully Hoglander comes dirt cheap and gels with Geno.

 

[Darren McCord]

DOC's trash, man. I'm fine, happy even, to keep him and play him over the Nieto, Acciari, Hayes, etc. losers but he's just a younger Acciari. Another loser. /shrug

a younger acciari was great bottom 6 player who was desired around the league. I don't need DOC to be more than that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, probably. Hoglander's at least got a 24g season under his belt, which is about as many goals as DOC has in his entire career. Hopefully Hoglander comes dirt cheap and gels with Geno.

Sorry I just ninja-edited the above.

I don't think Hoglander would do much with Malkin at all. But neither does DOC so whatever.

Hooray for pointless sideways moves involving basically the same type of player we've seen fail 87490409856 times on this team.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sorry I just ninja-edited the above.

I don't think Hoglander would do much with Malkin at all. But neither does DOC so whatever.

Hooray for pointless sideways moves involving basically the same type of player we've seen fail 87490409856 on this team.

Maybe not. I'm with you that he's gotta come here for dirt cheap if he's coming at all though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Fair. "Young" relative to the Penguins. I would say 27 still counts as relatively young in the league. 32+ is when you start to get "old".

That depends. Is O'Connor an established veteran? No. His time as an established NHLer has not been long. But his upside has all but plateaued now. He is what he is and is not going to become a top-six forward option all of a sudden. He is not a guy you commit to, but he is definitely the type of guy Mike Sullivan wants to commit to. If you kill penalties, you are in the "club."

 

[Jag68Sid87]

DOC has been good and also used terribly. This team refuses to use the net front and only focuses on pretty deflection on the side. He is coached in the worst possible way.

DOC literally looks like a different player on the PK because its not Sullivan's garbage 5v5 system or lack thereof. I have not doubt he would look much more competent off this team under another coach.

Sure, but this coach is here to stay. And there are a ton of players who would be better off with a coaching change, past and present.

What matters is do you keep O'Connor with Mike Sullivan behind the bench? Because there are no other options for this organization (apparently).

 

[Andy99]

This will be the fate of Hoglander if we ever trade for him lol….

 

[Ulf5]

Tbh I think I'd rather keep O'Connor but in the end it doesn't matter. If you can get a 2nd for O'Connor you trade him in a millisecond.

.21-.18-.39 - 60 more games.
.15-.17-.32 - 2.5 years older.
You've mentioned you think Hog is worth about a 3rd. DOC isn't getting anywhere near a 2nd if that's the case. Even if he is a better forechecker and whatnot.

 

[Pancakes]

Tbh I think I'd rather keep O'Connor but in the end it doesn't matter. If you can get a 2nd for O'Connor you trade him in a millisecond.

I wouldn't mind keeping him if I knew he would re-sign but given there's no such assurances (that I'm aware of) it would be foolish not to move him if they can get a decent return on him.

And if I'm DOC I don't know why I'd re-sign here as this team isn't going anywhere in the near future.

 

[Empoleon8771]

.21-.18-.39 - 60 more games.
.15-.17-.32 - 2.5 years older.
You've mentioned you think Hog is worth about a 3rd. DOC isn't getting anywhere near a 2nd if that's the case. Even if he is a better forechecker and whatnot.

O'Connor:

1. Can play center as well as either wing
2. Plays in all situations including the PP and PK
3. Is only under contract for this year so there aren't any long-term concerns with his deal.

Would I bet he gets a 2nd? Absolutely not, but crazier things have happened. O'Connor is probably only bringing back a 3rd as well, but a 2nd due to his small cap hit wouldn't be that surprising.

I wouldn't mind keeping him if I knew he would re-sign but given there's no such assurances (that I'm aware of) it would be foolish not to move him if they can get a decent return on him.

And if I'm DOC I don't know why I'd re-sign here as this team isn't going anywhere in the near future.

If the Penguins pay him money, why wouldn't he stay?

You see guys re-signing on bad teams pretty regularly.

 

[Jdodd]

Keep O’Conner on a 2-3 year deal at 1.3-1.8mil unless you can get a 2nd or maybe a mid 3rd. Good w the pick being in 26 or 27 as well.
No desire to take on Hoglander 3 more years at 3 mil unless it is like a Tomasino deal or for one of our current 4th liners or scratched forwards, or a larger trade w Marcus Peterson where we get more as discussed as far as 1st rd pick, petterson, mynio, etc.
Any trade for Hoglander you have to look at the $$ coming in and out over the entire contract of all players in the deal.

 

[Pancakes]

If the Penguins pay him money, why wouldn't he stay?

You see guys re-signing on bad teams pretty regularly.

Maybe. But also if you're DOC, would you re-sign before July 1st? And if you're the Penguins, do you want to risk losing him for nothing?

Imo if you can get something decent back you have to move him unless he opts to re-sign now and I doubt he would barring an overwhelming offer.

 

[Malkinstheman]

With the position the Canucks are in, maybe theyd accept DOC+JSI for Hoglander? Pens get the youngest guy, Canucks get two players who help their depth.

 

[Peat]

O'Connor reminds me of a lesser version of Scott Laughton. Laughton attracted a lot of trade speculation because he was big, could skate, went to dirty areas, was versatile, acceptable middle six production and so on - all things DOC has to a reasonable degree.

Laughton also re-signed with his then team before the TDL. Not saying DOC will or should, but it does happen.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I, uh, don't think DOC's some hot commodity who is going to be picking from several offers this summer or anything. He's a dork ass nobody and this coach gives him a permanent roster spot. If the Pens don't trade him and they extend an offer to him this summer, why wouldn't he simply re-sign?

 

[Ulf5]

O'Connor:

1. Can play center as well as either wing
2. Plays in all situations including the PP and PK
3. Is only under contract for this year so there aren't any long-term concerns with his deal.

Would I bet he gets a 2nd? Absolutely not, but crazier things have happened. O'Connor is probably only bringing back a 3rd as well, but a 2nd due to his small cap hit wouldn't be that surprising.



If the Penguins pay him money, why wouldn't he stay?

You see guys re-signing on bad teams pretty regularly.

Just because Sully put DOC at center a few games doesn't mean he can play center. I have my doubts his on-ice awareness would allow him to stick at C for more than an emergency game or two.
If he's not traded, I can see him re-signing something similar to the Pius Suter contract- 2x$1.6 million. But I have a feeling he'll be traded unless they're still in the playoff hunt at/near the deadline.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just because Sully put DOC at center a few games doesn't mean he can play center. I have my doubts his on-ice awareness would allow him to stick at C for more than an emergency game or two.
If he's not traded, I can see him re-signing something similar to the Pius Suter contract- 2x$1.6 million. But I have a feeling he'll be traded unless they're still in the playoff hunt at/near the deadline.

O'Connor played primarily at center in the minors and college. I have no concerns about his viability to stick at center if a team would want to use him there.

He's likely not more valuable than Hoglander but he offers extra versatility relative to Hoglander that I could possibly see a team overpaying for, especially if he's producing well before the deadline.

 

[Zbynek]

DOC, Hoglander, who gives a shit. Start selling and play people under the age of 27.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

This will be the fate of Hoglander if we ever trade for him lol….

Agreed. Last week or 2 weeks ago. I mentioned how he is are 6th or 7th best forward and he is on the 4th line playing limited minutes or not playing.

Ridiculous.