Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

[Ryder71]

This team would have to be essentially already eliminated from the playoffs for them to trade Guentzel at the deadline.

What's far more likely is the team will be 7th, 8th or 9th in the playoff race and they will add at the deadline, rather than subtract.

I'm not so sure of that, this team shoots itself in the foot quite a bit. TBTH I believe this is more of a last gasp of a once great franchise than anything sustainable. We'll see how we fair over the next five or six games.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Hinostroza is probably the best option they have for the 3rd line RW spot at this point, I agree with that.

I think the ideal setup for the bottom-6 going forward is:

Zohorna-Eller-Trade
O'Connor/Nieto-Poulin-Acciari

I think you could also trade for a top 6 wing and drop Raks or Rust (if/when he cools off.). Also, I think Hino has earned another look on 4L, but you may have already factored in Carter blocking that.

 

[SEALBound]

I pointed this out in the PGT, it's time to move DOC to the 4th line and try Hinostranza at wing or shuffle it up a bit and have it be Accari.

Zohorna-Eller-Hinostranza
Nieto-Accari-DOC

Zohorna-Eller-Accari
Nieto-DOC-Hinostranza

You can make a lot of interesting combinations with what we have right now. I would even be willing to risk DOC to waivers to be able to bring up a WBS guy just to see. I don't have a problem with the way he's been playing but you can't be non-productive forever. Might be okay for the 4th line. Can't be okay for the 3rd if we want to turn it around.

While I totally understand the circumstances and this is wishful thinking, I can't help but think that this would be the ideal time to have a guy like Yager in the lineup. It would be awesome to be able to switch a guy or two up and still maintain competent lines.

Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Geno-Rakell
Yager-Eller-Zohorna

Jake-Sid-Rust
Smith-Geno-Yager
Zohorna-Eller-Rakell

Just spitballin

 

[orby]

At this point in the season I'm still not sure how good this team is. For the umpteenth year in a row, the top 6 forwards generally look good (aside from Rakell, who I have to think is just slumping) and most of the bottom 6 looks basically useless. The defense looks okay on the whole. The goaltending is inconsistent. The only serious difference between this year and last year, despite all the roster shuffling, seems to be Karlsson, who's playing about as well as could be expected even if he's definitely not scoring 100 points here. But he's just one guy.

In short, they look like a bubble team...again. I have to think Dubas will look for a forward at the deadline. I don't think they're going to get anywhere if they're relying solely on the Crosby and Malkin lines for offense with a so-so defense and goalie; from where I sit, the Pens have anyone in their farm system ready to make the kind of impact needed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At this point in the season I'm still not sure how good this team is. For the umpteenth year in a row, the top 6 forwards generally look good (aside from Rakell, who I have to think is just slumping) and most of the bottom 6 looks basically useless. The defense looks okay on the whole. The goaltending is inconsistent. The only serious difference between this year and last year, despite all the roster shuffling, seems to be Karlsson, who's playing about as well as could be expected even if he's definitely not scoring 100 points here. But he's just one guy.

In short, they look like a bubble team...again. I have to think Dubas will look for a forward at the deadline. I don't think they're going to get anywhere if they're relying solely on the Crosby and Malkin lines for offense with a so-so defense and goalie; from where I sit, the Pens have anyone in their farm system ready to make the kind of impact needed.

I don't understand what 3rd line you've been watching if you think it has been "basically useless".

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really think people need to put into perspective what other teams have in their bottom-6 forwards. If you want to judge just based on goals, the Penguins bottom-6 has 7 goals in 12 games so far (3 for Zohorna, 2 for Eller and 1 for Nieto and Hinostroza), which is a 48 goal pace per 82 games. That's not anything amazingly special, but it's pretty good considering they're being used in heavy defensive roles and not getting scored on. Their total goal differential at 5v5 is something like +2 or +3 on the year so far, which is wildly better than the -22 from last year.

The 3rd line has been utterly dominant since Zohorna was put on it, it has a 3.52 GF/60 and 1.76 GA/60 with analytics that actually suggests they could be doing even better than that. The 4th line has generally not produced, but they're also not getting scored on at all. I also think the 4th line is substantially better with Hinostroza in for Carter, which will likely be the lineup decision once the team has the cap space to do that.

To me, there is only one issue with the bottom-6: O'Connor on the 3rd line. Zohorna and Eller look like 2/3 of a great 3rd line and Nieto-Acciari-Hinostroza looks like it should be a serviceable to solid 4th line.

Edit: just to be crystal clear for my expectations, I'd call a bottom-6 "good" if it finished with 60 goals and a goal differential of +15 or better over a full season. They're not quite on pace for that yet, but they're also really not far off from that either.

 

[Rave7215]

I don't understand what 3rd line you've been watching if you think it has been "basically useless".

Right? Ever since Big Z has been added to that line, it is has been fantastic.

The fourth line looked good without Carter on it. Go figure

 

[Deport Ogie]

I felt all along the way to judge the bottom six is going to realistically be goal differential moreso than pure goal scoring. That's just how the team is built, for better or worse. Goals are going to be a nice perk and I think anywhere between 45 and 55 goals is going to be fair but if they come out comfortably on the plus side differential wise it's a win, certainly a big win over last year where the bottom 6 had that enviable trait of not being able to score shit while simultaneously not being able to defend.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know they started off abysmal but overall I think I like the look of this year's bottom six better than last year. Sure you can say that there isn't the potential depth there that there was in case you take injuries to the top six. But it's not like guys like Heinen or Kapanen were all that terrific in those roles when required, anyway.

Eller alone is far better in his role than anyone in the bottom six for years.

 

[orby]

I'll concede that Eller looks quite good, and Zohorna has played well with him, but I want to see that play out over a sample size bigger than 12 games.

 

[tom_servo]

At this point in the season I'm still not sure how good this team is.

No one is, including management. It's November 10.

If this were the NFL we'd be 1-1 and tied at halftime of game 3.

 

[Pancakes]

At this point in the season I'm still not sure how good this team is. For the umpteenth year in a row, the top 6 forwards generally look good (aside from Rakell, who I have to think is just slumping) and most of the bottom 6 looks basically useless. The defense looks okay on the whole. The goaltending is inconsistent. The only serious difference between this year and last year, despite all the roster shuffling, seems to be Karlsson, who's playing about as well as could be expected even if he's definitely not scoring 100 points here. But he's just one guy.

In short, they look like a bubble team...again. I have to think Dubas will look for a forward at the deadline. I don't think they're going to get anywhere if they're relying solely on the Crosby and Malkin lines for offense with a so-so defense and goalie; from where I sit, the Pens have anyone in their farm system ready to make the kind of impact needed.

Glass half full: Third in the league in 5v5 xgoals for with a sparkling 57% metric there. Sullivan may have (gasp) finally made an adjustment to the way the team is forechecking such that the forecheck is less aggressive and the team more committed to defense. Sid and Geno still look excellent. Smith is fitting great. Rakell and EK have another gear to reach and if they do we're very dangerous offensively. Solid PK so far.

Glass half Andy: This recent defensive resurgence is a blip on the radar and the team will go back to being defensively useless once bad habits creep back in. Sully maybe didn't actually adjust the system it's just players playing more responsibly than normal and it won't last. Our goalies will continue to get hurt all year and we'll struggle in net. We look old and slow on some nights and there's no turning back the clock. Bad powerplay.


I subscribe more to the glass half full approach at the moment but I wouldn't begrudge anyone falling more on the other side of it. Next few weeks will be important as hell.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

All I ask for - can we learn the lesson of EK and stop spending money on the Tanev, McGinn, Rutta, Graves of the worlds and add superstars from here on out (as long as we’re trying to compete)?

It’s such a big difference having a guy like that. I hope the Dube can do the same up front.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

…

Eller alone is far better in his role than anyone in the bottom six for years.

A few years ago they had this guy named Freddie Gaudreau who looked real good and has averaged over 40 points a season since on Minny. I thought Brian Boyle a couple years ago really exceeded expectations, but yeah Eller is better. Also, back then we had this young, tall Czech guy. I bet he would have given Eller a run for his money as best bottom 6er, but Sully never seemed to give him a chance.

All I ask for - can we learn the lesson of EK and stop spending money on the Tanev, McGinn, Rutta, Graves of the worlds and add superstars from here on out (as long as we’re trying to compete)?

It’s such a big difference having a guy like that. I hope the Dube can do the same up front.

I don’t think a middle pair D belongs with Rutta, Tanev and McGinn.

 

[Zirakzigil]

All I ask for - can we learn the lesson of EK and stop spending money on the Tanev, McGinn, Rutta, Graves of the worlds and add superstars from here on out (as long as we’re trying to compete)?

It’s such a big difference having a guy like that. I hope the Dube can do the same up front.

This team could use Rutta on the bottom pair....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

False sense of hope really has you lot suffering from severe amnesia already huh.

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

False sense of hope really has you lot suffering from severe amnesia already huh.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Ruh and Graves should not ever be allowed to take a shot on goal

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ruh and Graves should not ever be allowed to take a shot on goal

Why Graves? He has a cannon of a slapshot.

 

[Pancakes]

Why Graves? He has a cannon of a slapshot.

I like Graves' willingness to shoot but he's also a little aggravating because he loves to just wing shots on net even when there's no traffic there. I'd like him to be a little bit more selective sometimes.

In fairness to Graves this team is also generally bad at getting to the net so if he waited for traffic he might have to wait all night

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like Graves' willingness to shoot but he's also a little aggravating because he loves to just wing shots on net even when there's no traffic there. I'd like him to be a little bit more selective sometimes.

In fairness to Graves this team is also generally bad at getting to the net so if he waited for traffic he might have to wait all night

I think that's just a general problem with the team of not getting to the front of the net, so I definitely agree with the second part

Speaking of Graves, I've tried to focus on him a bit more in recent games and I do honestly feel like Penguins fans are going overboard with the criticism of him. My big complaint with him is that I wish he was more physical because he's huge, but otherwise he's been fairly quiet and decent/solid.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I like Graves

 

[Gurglesons]

Graves should be on the third pairing. He’d be good there.

 

[Pancakes]

I think that's just a general problem with the team of not getting to the front of the net, so I definitely agree with the second part

Speaking of Graves, I've tried to focus on him a bit more in recent games and I do honestly feel like Penguins fans are going overboard with the criticism of him. My big complaint with him is that I wish he was more physical because he's huge, but otherwise he's been fairly quiet and decent/solid.

I thought he was mishandling a lot of pucks early on and making questionable turnovers but I think he's starting to settle in and play solid now. Haven't noticed much of that the past few.

Probably nerves/adjusting to a new system.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I thought he was mishandling a lot of pucks early on and making questionable turnovers but I think he's starting to settle in and play solid now. Haven't noticed much of that the past few.

Probably nerves/adjusting to a new system.

And I think he alluded to this in an interview earlier in the year. I don't mean this to be rude, but he's also a pretty dumb hockey player so it's not too surprising if he'd take a bit longer to adjust to a new system.