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GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

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SEALBound said:
I had two beer league games last night and my phone was low from refreshing so many damn times but after I got back and saw the trade and then all of the reactions, I wanted to sleep on it and then decide. As opposed to coming here and showing my bare ass like so many of you did.

This is a situation where frustration may be sitting in but it's our fault. We took the tweets that the price was high and we started formulating what we thought we should be getting back. When I would post stuff like Hogs+Lekkerimaki+1st, I knew deep down that was a major, unrealistic ask. But as teams we in on him, it begins to build this anticipation that we get that once-in-a-lifetime holy shit return where we are saying, "wtf was that GM thinking!"

In reality, not only was that not going to happen but it didn't. Penguins also did not grant extension talks prior to the trade. That does hurt value a bit because now, teams have to treat Jake as a true rental. That's fine but what should come with that is an adjustment with our expectations as to what the return will be.

Dubas said two things: 1. The team needs to get younger. 2. He wanted prospects over picks. He accomplished both of those things. It was also said he wanted a NHL roster player, a prospect, and a 1st. He got that. Just because it wasn't the names we arbitrarily decided it should be, doesn't mean it's a "failure". This trade is really about perspective but first let's look at who we got:

1. Bunting. NHL player. Helps now. Slots in with Sid or Malkin. I really wanted Bunting in the off-season as I thought he brought exactly what the team was missing - that physical, shit-disturbing energy, and he can pot a goal every now and then. That is still a major need for us. He's not going to replace what Jake brought but the truth is, no one is. We simply cannot expect to have a 40g scorer in return for our 40g scorer. As an initial piece, I'm okay with it. That said, if they turned around and flipped him today, I wouldn't lose sleep.

2. Vasili Ponomarev. 2020 2nd round pick. 53ov. 5'10, 180lbs. From what I gathered, he challenged Drury in camp but got hurt and Drury seized the opportunity. 2 NHL games, 2 pts and he's put up 29pts in 41 AHL games which puts him at the 3rd leading scorer by PPG (he's played 39 while others played 46 and 51). Plenty of Canes fans were really disappointed to lose him.

3. Ville Koivunen. 2021 2nd round pick. 51ov. 5'11 161lbs. 55pts in 57gp in Finlands top league - Liiga. Leading scorer on his team at 20yo.

4. Cruz Lucius. 2022 4th round pick. 124 ov. 6'1 184lbs. 31pt in 31gp in the UofWisconsin. Leading scorer on his team as a 19yo. In 21, went to the WJC-u18 and potted 8pts in 6gp.

5. Conditional 1st. Let's assume this will be a 2nd and the 1st will be gravy.

6. 5th. WGAF.

Even though it's not Morrow, Nadeau, Nikishin, these are still three very good prospects for us. Ponomarev can play for us now. Koivenen can easily come over next year. Lucius may need another 1-2 years in the NCAA but he is trending extremely well as a sophomore. These three provide a major boost to our prospect group. We had 5-6 guys that are hopeful with only 1 that's a solid prospect - Yager, Pickering, Blomqvist, Murashov...then Ilyin then...? So yeah, getting this crop of young guys back for a rental is quite reasonable. It's not Hogs+Lekky or Othmann+1st but this is also a far cry from Kenny Agostino+Ben Hanowski+1st for Iginla.

Again, this is about perspective. We got three prospects who were 2nd, 2nd, and 4th round picks. Not terrible. If the trade was:

Jake for Bunting + 24 2nd + 25 2nd + 26 4th + conditional 24 1st + conditional 24 5th - I'm sure a lot of people here would be like "Damn!!! Look at the haul! Holy crap!" But that, in essence is what we got except we have a crystal ball into the D+1/2/3 seasons of the 2nd, 2nd, and 4th. And we know they are doing well. And again, this is all for a rental. A rental that can 100% be resigned if Pittsburgh if he so chooses.

The home run is if Jake returns and you can put Bunting on the 3rd line.

For now, I'm not as down on this trade as some. While I will express disappointment that the "we prefer quality over quantity" wasn't necessarily followed, I'm not going to act like there are all a bunch of throwaway pieces because they are not. With any trade involving picks, there's always risk. In my analysis of picks we've given away, only a small fraction (like 2 total) are "regrettable," but one got us Perron, who got us Hagelin, who was instrumental in the cup wins. So to get these three and seeing how they are trending, I'm okay with it.

I will not be jumping off any cliffs or bridges nor will sit here and bemoan Dubas.
Click to expand...

This is a very refreshing post but those prospects won't mean much if Sullivan refuses to play them.
 
I don’t mind Ruh this year. He’s only ever been bad last year, but it’s time and to get some sort of value is funny.

Remember when we all begged for him to be in over Jack Johnson in 2019
 
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TimmyD said:
Canucks fans who are familiar with their team would have and were saying Podkolzin, Raty and Mikheyev plus a conditional 2nd was a good return for the Penguins…. That doesn’t mean it would have been.
Click to expand...
When are you gonna honor your bet?

Also, our return in this package seems better than that.
 
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Y’all jump for joy now but they talked to Ruh and said “pick your destination. There’s a 5 year 2.5M deal waiting for you in Pittsburgh July 1.”
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Canes fans on this website are the best group of fans here, Canucks fans are trash on this website.

I actually trust Canes fans.
Click to expand...
Ah so because they are nicer they wouldn’t make things up … or just be telling you it’s a good return while realizing they actually made out like bandits. Right. Totally… it’s great because Canes fans say it is… makes perfect sense.
 
We will have a pretty good idea of what the next two to three years looks like by what they do today. Trading Jake was a big indicator though.

As for Jake, if he was going to resign here he would have been signed already. The Pens do not screw around and play games. I wasn't expecting him to suddenly have a come to God moment this summer and sign for an enormous discount.

The team has decided to go soft rebuild. Let the core ride out into the sunset having some fun, but no longer seriously going for it either.
 
SEALBound said:
I had two beer league games last night and my phone was low from refreshing so many damn times but after I got back and saw the trade and then all of the reactions, I wanted to sleep on it and then decide. As opposed to coming here and showing my bare ass like so many of you did.

This is a situation where frustration may be sitting in but it's our fault. We took the tweets that the price was high and we started formulating what we thought we should be getting back. When I would post stuff like Hogs+Lekkerimaki+1st, I knew deep down that was a major, unrealistic ask. But as teams we in on him, it begins to build this anticipation that we get that once-in-a-lifetime holy shit return where we are saying, "wtf was that GM thinking!"

In reality, not only was that not going to happen but it didn't. Penguins also did not grant extension talks prior to the trade. That does hurt value a bit because now, teams have to treat Jake as a true rental. That's fine but what should come with that is an adjustment with our expectations as to what the return will be.

Dubas said two things: 1. The team needs to get younger. 2. He wanted prospects over picks. He accomplished both of those things. It was also said he wanted a NHL roster player, a prospect, and a 1st. He got that. Just because it wasn't the names we arbitrarily decided it should be, doesn't mean it's a "failure". This trade is really about perspective but first let's look at who we got:

1. Bunting. NHL player. Helps now. Slots in with Sid or Malkin. I really wanted Bunting in the off-season as I thought he brought exactly what the team was missing - that physical, shit-disturbing energy, and he can pot a goal every now and then. That is still a major need for us. He's not going to replace what Jake brought but the truth is, no one is. We simply cannot expect to have a 40g scorer in return for our 40g scorer. As an initial piece, I'm okay with it. That said, if they turned around and flipped him today, I wouldn't lose sleep.

2. Vasili Ponomarev. 2020 2nd round pick. 53ov. 5'10, 180lbs. From what I gathered, he challenged Drury in camp but got hurt and Drury seized the opportunity. 2 NHL games, 2 pts and he's put up 29pts in 41 AHL games which puts him at the 3rd leading scorer by PPG (he's played 39 while others played 46 and 51). Plenty of Canes fans were really disappointed to lose him.

3. Ville Koivunen. 2021 2nd round pick. 51ov. 5'11 161lbs. 55pts in 57gp in Finlands top league - Liiga. Leading scorer on his team at 20yo.

4. Cruz Lucius. 2022 4th round pick. 124 ov. 6'1 184lbs. 31pt in 31gp in the UofWisconsin. Leading scorer on his team as a 19yo. In 21, went to the WJC-u18 and potted 8pts in 6gp.

5. Conditional 1st. Let's assume this will be a 2nd and the 1st will be gravy.

6. 5th. WGAF.

Even though it's not Morrow, Nadeau, Nikishin, these are still three very good prospects for us. Ponomarev can play for us now. Koivenen can easily come over next year. Lucius may need another 1-2 years in the NCAA but he is trending extremely well as a sophomore. These three provide a major boost to our prospect group. We had 5-6 guys that are hopeful with only 1 that's a solid prospect - Yager, Pickering, Blomqvist, Murashov...then Ilyin then...? So yeah, getting this crop of young guys back for a rental is quite reasonable. It's not Hogs+Lekky or Othmann+1st but this is also a far cry from Kenny Agostino+Ben Hanowski+1st for Iginla.

Again, this is about perspective. We got three prospects who were 2nd, 2nd, and 4th round picks. Not terrible. If the trade was:

Jake for Bunting + 24 2nd + 25 2nd + 26 4th + conditional 24 1st + conditional 24 5th - I'm sure a lot of people here would be like "Damn!!! Look at the haul! Holy crap!" But that, in essence is what we got except we have a crystal ball into the D+1/2/3 seasons of the 2nd, 2nd, and 4th. And we know they are doing well. And again, this is all for a rental. A rental that can 100% be resigned if Pittsburgh if he so chooses.

The home run is if Jake returns and you can put Bunting on the 3rd line.

For now, I'm not as down on this trade as some. While I will express disappointment that the "we prefer quality over quantity" wasn't necessarily followed, I'm not going to act like there are all a bunch of throwaway pieces because they are not. With any trade involving picks, there's always risk. In my analysis of picks we've given away, only a small fraction (like 2 total) are "regrettable," but one got us Perron, who got us Hagelin, who was instrumental in the cup wins. So to get these three and seeing how they are trending, I'm okay with it.

I will not be jumping off any cliffs or bridges nor will sit here and bemoan Dubas.
Click to expand...
Well said all around
 
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Question is why the F Smith, Eller and Ned is at practice... we like our team so much we keep all except Ruwedel?... what joke...
 
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