Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Darren McCord]

If Kyle Dubas makes some huge moves then maybe I'll feel otherwise, but it seems like he's perfectly content to do jackshit. It's honestly embarassing and in someways I get the feeling Sid may just say f*** it and walk.

Sid is part of the problem. Him constantly going to bat for Sully and not wanting changes is a part of the issue.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I remain skeptical of the thought that we would have traded Jake if he hadn't forced our hand.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Sid is part of the problem. Him constantly going to bat for Sully and not wanting changes is a part of the issue.

I’m not going to criticize Sid here because ownership and management should see what the problems are clearer than him but I don’t think Sid’s as frustrated with the state of the franchise as we are. He probably also believes that they can turn this around with Sullivan.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I’m not going to criticize Sid here because ownership and management should see what the problems are clearer than him but I don’t think Sid’s as frustrated with the state of the franchise as we are. He probably also believes that they can turn this around with Sullivan.

If he doesn’t see what the issues with this team are, then he’s kinda doing a disservice to his reputation as captain imo.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I remain skeptical of the thought that we would have traded Jake if he hadn't forced our hand.

If that is the return for a trade he does not want to make, then we should be encouraged by our GM.

Look, I am probably one false move away from joining everybody else in this pissing party. But so far, I have not seen that move that was so egregious.

In fact, we need a GM to NOT make certain moves right now, which is the only thing that has me hopeful.

If he frees up cap space, it is to fix the power play. If a Jarry deal makes sense, make it.

The only thing I hate right now is that Yager is not signed. He holds a large key to our future plans. I sure hope there are no problems with this prospect, but until he is signed I worry.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

If he doesn’t see what the issues with this team are, then he’s kinda doing a disservice to his reputation as captain imo.

What hockey player is going to admit that he and the rest of the team's core are probably too old to make the playoffs?

 

[Empoleon8771]

If that is the return for a trade he does not want to make, then we should be encouraged by our GM.

Look, I am probably one false move away from joining everybody else in this pissing party. But so far, I have not seen that move that was so egregious.

In fact, we need a GM to NOT make certain moves right now, which is the only thing that has me hopeful.

If he frees up cap space, it is to fix the power play. If a Jarry deal makes sense, make it.

The only thing I hate right now is that Yager is not signed. He holds a large key to our future plans. I sure hope there are no problems with this prospect, but until he is signed I worry.

Yeah this is exactly where I'm at, with the bolded being especially true. I want him to be more aggressive with the restocking of the prospect pool, but making a bunch of trades solely to "blow up the team" isn't the right way to go if the return isn't there.

People were complaining that Dubas didn't move Eller at the deadline last year as if it was some way the Penguins were refusing to rebuild. But you pretty much know you can get a 3rd for him as a rental next year, so if the return this year would be worse (which it sounded like was the case due to the extra year on Eller's deal), why would you trade him now? Just for the sake of trading him?

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah this is exactly where I'm at, with the bolded being especially true. I want him to be more aggressive with the restocking of the prospect pool, but making a bunch of trades solely to "blow up the team" isn't the right way to go if the return isn't there.

People were complaining that Dubas didn't move Eller at the deadline last year as if it was some way the Penguins were refusing to rebuild. But you pretty much know you can get a 3rd for him as a rental next year, so if the return this year would be worse (which it sounded like was the case due to the extra year on Eller's deal), why would you trade him now? Just for the sake of trading him?

More cap space to get paid to take on bad contracts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

More cap space to get paid to take on bad contracts.

Eller's return as a rental would likely be greater than what you'd get for taking on $2.5 million in dead money, especially with the cap rising as substantially as it has. The Rangers just got out of Goodrow's contract for free.

Want to do that with Rakell? Absolutely, I'm completely in factor of that. I still really like that idea Canucks fans threw out of Smith for Mikheyev and a 2nd, even if you have to retain a bit on Smith to get that deal done.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Jake didn't want to sign

There's no other explanation

He needed his final contract and this team is going nowhere during these years

Dubass didn't get crap for him, and didn't sell off any actual deadweight, so it would seem highly illogical that they wanted to trade jake to "improve the future" when no other moves have improved our future.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas still has enough on the roster to compete. It really comes down to Jarry playing better, the D being better and the 4th line and to some degree for the 3rd line to be responsible as to defense and checking. A healthy Rakell can be good and Bunting on that line is not a bad line. If DOC can keep on playing with some grit and skill, he really brings a Kunitz type to the LW as well. Smith appears is in demand and move him and go from there.

 

[SEALBound]

Sid is part of the problem. Him constantly going to bat for Sully and not wanting changes is a part of the issue.

Indeed. If he, Geno, and Letang are the single driving force of Sullivan being here...fine. They've earned that right to make that request much to the chagrin of the fan base. But there better not be ONE f***ING WORD of disappointment if the rest of their career is merely a "just missed team" and there most certainly better NOT be a "Oh, trade me so I get one final chance a cup".

Yeah this is exactly where I'm at, with the bolded being especially true. I want him to be more aggressive with the restocking of the prospect pool, but making a bunch of trades solely to "blow up the team" isn't the right way to go if the return isn't there.

People were complaining that Dubas didn't move Eller at the deadline last year as if it was some way the Penguins were refusing to rebuild. But you pretty much know you can get a 3rd for him as a rental next year, so if the return this year would be worse (which it sounded like was the case due to the extra year on Eller's deal), why would you trade him now? Just for the sake of trading him?

Pretty sure Dubas said Eller was offered around the league and there were zero takers. He also said a lot of guys have VERY low value but that it could change once the new cap structure was in place and the cap space went up. So I can't imagine Dubas hasn't been working the phones a bit to revisit some of those conversations.

Smith for Mikheyev + 2nd is something I would do. Burns me that it's a 2025 2nd but it is what it is. I'd be talking to teams about Acciari too. If there's a bottom 6 center need, he could fill the gap for several teams.

 

[Gurglesons]

Eller's return as a rental would likely be greater than what you'd get for taking on $2.5 million in dead money, especially with the cap rising as substantially as it has. The Rangers just got out of Goodrow's contract for free.

Want to do that with Rakell? Absolutely, I'm completely in factor of that. I still really like that idea Canucks fans threw out of Smith for Mikheyev and a 2nd, even if you have to retain a bit on Smith to get that deal done.

Gives us 15 million to take on contracts instead of 13.

 

[SEALBound]

Gives us 15 million to take on contracts instead of 13.

But that's not where we are at as a team. We aren't SJS. The eternal Arizona dumping grounds show doesn't really happen anymore honestly and it's certainly not happening here.

As is, we can run:

DOC-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Rakell
Smith-Eller-Puustinen
Puljujarvi-Acciari-Poulin

Graves-Letang
Petts-EK
Ludvig-JSI

Jarry-Blomqvist

and have $13mil in cap space. That is MORE than enough to take on a "bad contract" in exchange for payment. Mikheyev+2nd being a decent suggestion. But when you look at the "bad contracts" that need payment to move, there aren't a lot of expiring ones. Most of the bad contracts are big cap hit, long term deals like PLD, Nurse, Jones, Campbell. Those "bad contracts" don't really fit what we are trying to do. I don't see us making our goaltending situation worse for the mere pleasure of taking on a bad contract as being in any way smart.

At best, I think those moves can be viewed as the "crap for crap" deals like Scuds-Daley or a Perron-Hagelin swap. Swap Smith for Mikheyev. Swap Eller for Gavrikov. Swap Rakell with Mangiapane.

 

[Andy99]

Dubas still has enough on the roster to compete. It really comes down to Jarry playing better, the D being better and the 4th line and to some degree for the 3rd line to be responsible as to defense and checking. A healthy Rakell can be good and Bunting on that line is not a bad line. If DOC can keep on playing with some grit and skill, he really brings a Kunitz type to the LW as well. Smith appears is in demand and move him and go from there.

If we’re counting on the goaltending and defense being better after re-signing Jarry and Sullivan to forever with their histories, then things are truly bleak…lol

 

[DesertPenguin]

But that's not where we are at as a team. We aren't SJS. The eternal Arizona dumping grounds show doesn't really happen anymore honestly and it's certainly not happening here.

As is, we can run:

DOC-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Rakell
Smith-Eller-Puustinen
Puljujarvi-Acciari-Poulin

Graves-Letang
Petts-EK
Ludvig-JSI

Jarry-Blomqvist

and have $13mil in cap space. That is MORE than enough to take on a "bad contract" in exchange for payment. Mikheyev+2nd being a decent suggestion. But when you look at the "bad contracts" that need payment to move, there aren't a lot of expiring ones. Most of the bad contracts are big cap hit, long term deals like PLD, Nurse, Jones, Campbell. Those "bad contracts" don't really fit what we are trying to do. I don't see us making our goaltending situation worse for the mere pleasure of taking on a bad contract as being in any way smart.

At best, I think those moves can be viewed as the "crap for crap" deals like Scuds-Daley or a Perron-Hagelin swap. Swap Smith for Mikheyev. Swap Eller for Gavrikov. Swap Rakell with Mangiapane.

Laine at 8.7 for 2 years fits that mold. Just saying. It's a big gamble, but if he snaps back, this team is a #3 seed even with no other moves. We just need him to shoot on the PP. If it doesn't work, he's gone in 2 years.

 

[Ulf5]

Allegedly Othmann was part of that deal who is a way better prospect then anyone we have.

Was probably as much truth to that rumor as the rumors of a couple better Canes' prospects being offered.

 

[molon labe]

Sid is part of the problem. Him constantly going to bat for Sully and not wanting changes is a part of the issue.

I’m not going to criticize Sid here because ownership and management should see what the problems are clearer than him but I don’t think Sid’s as frustrated with the state of the franchise as we are. He probably also believes that they can turn this around with Sullivan.

You have a generational player allergic to change and of the mindset he can beat anyone, anytime, under any circumstance. Sid genuinely (probably) thinks he can win the cup with Harkins on his line.

That's a guy you go to war with - but not a guy you leave decisions up to. Both can be true.

It's the complete mishandling of management why we are where we are. If they're listening to Sid on Sullivan, they're wrong. If they're listening to Sid for roster construction, they're not being objective enough.

 

[SEALBound]

Laine at 8.7 for 2 years fits that mold. Just saying. It's a big gamble, but if he snaps back, this team is a #3 seed even with no other moves. We just need him to shoot on the PP. If it doesn't work, he's gone in 2 years.

I would agree with that. One thing that I thought of - if Vancouver misses out on Guentzel, I wonder if they do a Laine for Mikheyev swap? That would be a trade I can genuinely see helping both sides.

I can see why Vancouver wants Jake - they need a trigger man for Pettersson. While Mikheyev's speed certainly helps, he's a Dupuis. He lacks the hands to capitalize on the chances he is given. Laine could likely make good use of the chances presented to him by Pettersson.

At the same time, if Sid has Rust, a guy like Mikheyev could work well the way Dupuis and DOC have. Would be great if he had a bit more physicality but the speed could help.

 

[Zbynek]

Laine at 8.7 for 2 years fits that mold. Just saying. It's a big gamble, but if he snaps back, this team is a #3 seed even with no other moves. We just need him to shoot on the PP. If it doesn't work, he's gone in 2 years.

So much better than Mangiapane, Wahlstrom and calling it a day.

Dubas and Waddell also have the relationship from the Jake trade.

 

[SEALBound]

So much better than Mangiapane, Wahlstrom and calling it a day.

Dubas and Waddell also have the relationship from the Jake trade.

Why not all three?

Smith for Laine
Rakell for Mangipane
5th for Wahlmstrom

Mangiapane-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Laine
DOC-Pono-Wahlmstrom
Poulin-Eller-Acciari

 

[Zbynek]

Now if we can get BOTH Laine and Mangiapane that's something I can get behind. Move out some cap and you still have room to sign a backup goalie and fill out the D-core.

Mangiapane - Crosby - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - Laine
DOC - Eller - Puusti
x-Ponomaryov-x

@SEALBound read my mind.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think my only concern regarding Laine is that Columbus would want actual value for him based on what he was in the past, rather than selling him for dirt cheap based on his disaster 2023-2024 season.

If he costs actual assets, I think it would be a mistake to trade for him. This team isn't in a spot to trade a 1st for Laine, even if you think you could recover that value if Laine bounces back.

 

[Zbynek]

Though I think if we really want Laine, it will cost us more like an Owen Pickering.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm LOL'ing at the idea of Laine being used properly on a Sullivan-coached team.