Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Gurglesons]

The playoffs aren't even over yet. I'd like to at least see the draft and July 1st play out before I get a sense of Dubas' plans.

Based on what he did last year I don't have high hopes though. The Karlsson move was cool but he bungled almost everything else.

okay "be patient": the kyle dubas story.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

The only reason they traded Jake is because he and his camp made it abundantly clear he wasn't gonna entertain any offers and he would be going to FA. If there was even a glimmer of hope, they would've held on to him and offered him some dogshit contract after the season, 100%.

I don't know shit, that's for sure, but I think you may be wrong on this one. I rather think this was a blunder of massive proportion if one is in the camp wishing we still had Jake. No overtures or inquiries were made to his camp from what I gather. They needlessly burned bridges while possibly blowing a chance at a hometown discount, not that that would have been in Jake's best interest. I think we f***ed that up in total amateur fashion. Say whatever you want about Rutherford, but he would have made sure Jake knew he was wanted if he was still here.

 

[Pancakes]

okay "be patient": the kyle dubas story.

I mean it's more like complaining about Kyle Dubas having a bad summer before he even has a bad summer is kind of a silly thing to do lol.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's so f***ing stupid.

I can not believe we traded Jake Guentzel to what amounts to a 2nd and Michael Bunting. It's absurd.

Especially if you are going to turn around and do jack shit to make this team competitive this year.

If he makes a bunch of big moves to try and compete, I'll get it... but it seems like he's just going to keep cap space open and let Sid and Malkin float around with shit.

Yeah, it's just more of the same non-committal bullshit. "Yeah, we wanna rebuild the prospect pool, but not at the cost of landing a sick roster player like Michael Bunting!" so we got a buncha like C-tier prospects and a whatever warm body. But the prospects are more NHL ready! (Although their ceilings are meh as hell, but shhh.)

I'm still annoyed that Dubas couldn't secure a 1st or another Yager-caliber prospect. I realize Jake's insistence on hitting FA and refusing to negotiate an extension cratered his value but I cannot believe Dubas exhausted all avenues. He just settled for lesser prospects that were more NHL ready and a warm body to throw into the lineup.

I dunno. I don't care anymore, it's just another log on like a 6 year pile of 'em. Stupid, dysfunctional, arrogant franchise.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean it's more like complaining about Kyle Dubas having a bad summer before he even has a bad summer is kind of a silly thing to do lol.

Kyle Dubas blows chunks.

Same type of people holding out hope the powerplay suddenly improves after Reirden is gone.

Yeah, it's just more of the same non-committal bullshit. "Yeah, we wanna rebuild the prospect pool, but not at the cost of landing a sick roster player like Michael Bunting!" so we got a buncha like C-tier prospects and a whatever warm body. But the prospects are more NHL ready! (Although their ceilings are meh as hell, but shhh.)

I'm still annoyed that Dubas couldn't secure a 1st or another Yager-caliber prospect. I realize Jake's insistence on hitting FA and refusing to negotiate an extension cratered his value but I cannot believe Dubas exhausted all avenues. He just settled for lesser prospects that were more NHL ready and a warm body to throw into the lineup.

I dunno. I don't care anymore, it's just another log on like a 6 year pile of 'em. Stupid, dysfunctional, arrogant franchise.

Never been more unlikable. Which is impressive given how dark some of the time lines have been here.

 

[Pancakes]

Kyle Dubas blows chunks.

Every GM sucks. JR sucked ass too he just won us a couple cups because he had a hot streak.

That's about the best you can hope for with a GM is them having a good stretch. They all bungle shit all the time.

 

[Gurglesons]

Every GM sucks. JR sucked ass too he just won us a couple cups because he had a hot streak.

That's about the best you can hope for with a GM is them having a good stretch. They all bungle shit all the time.

Keep up the cope.

 

[Pancakes]

Keep up the cope.

Cope? I got to see three cups recently and countless Mario/Sid/Jagr/Geno memories since I was a kid. If the Pens don't make the playoffs for the rest of my life I'd still be pretty content with what I got to watch from this franchise.

Waddell/JR were ridiculed for much of the work they did in the NHL and then turned that around to do a pretty good job with the Pens/Canes.

Even the much maligned Ron Hextall had a few good moments with the Pens.

So, yeah. Nuance is a thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cope? I got to see three cups recently and countless Mario/Sid/Jagr/Geno memories since I was a kid. If the Pens don't make the playoffs for the rest of my life I'd still be pretty content with what I got to watch from this franchise.

Waddell/JR were ridiculed for much of the work they did in the NHL and then turned that around to do a pretty good job with the Pens/Canes.

Even the much maligned Ron Hextall had a few good moments with the Pens.

So, yeah. Nuance is a thing.

Not sure what championships nearly ten years ago have to do with Kyle Dubas and the state of the franchise currently, but I’m sure FSG will let us know when that’s the only thing they can sell on us fools.

Hopefully Dubas makes me look dumb like Rutherford did.

 

[Pancakes]

Not sure what championships nearly ten years ago have to do with Kyle Dubas and the state of the franchise currently, but I’m sure FSG will let us know when that’s the only thing they can sell on us fools.

Hopefully Dubas makes me look dumb like Rutherford did.

As long as he doesn't move that first round pick I'm not terribly invested in how much he f***s up otherwise.

But he already almost dealt one lottery pick and I'd hate to see him actually do that. I know our pick in the EK deal was lottery protected but it could have easily been a situation where we had to make a decision and give them this year's pick and that is terrifying to think about.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't know shit, that's for sure, but I think you may be wrong on this one. I rather think this was a blunder of massive proportion if one is in the camp wishing we still had Jake. No overtures or inquiries were made to his camp from what I gather. They needlessly burned bridges while possibly blowing a chance at a hometown discount, not that that would have been in Jake's best interest. I think we f***ed that up in total amateur fashion. Say whatever you want about Rutherford, but he would have made sure Jake knew he was wanted if he was still here.

I could be wrong but I definitely remember reports from last summer about Jake and Dubas touching base before breaking off talks pretty quickly in a "wait and see how the year goes" sorta thing, then reports that Jake refused a couple of extension offers from Dubas in January or February. Then, later, hearing he outright refused to stay open about extensions with wherever he would be traded to, which decimated his value.

Basically, the team waited too long (should've traded him in the summer when he made it clear he was playing hardball) and Jake did them no favors by remaining open to discussions. /shrug

-edit- All that said, I do think this team would've given him whatever he wanted to stick around and keep more of the same ol', same ol'. He just didn't want to sign his colossal deal with a sinking ship, even if he left open the possibility to be dealt down the road when Sid retires.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I could be wrong but I definitely remember reports from last summer about Jake and Dubas touching base before breaking off talks pretty quickly in a "wait and see how the year goes" sorta thing, then reports that Jake refused a couple of extension offers from Dubas in January or February. Then, later, hearing he outright refused to stay open about extensions with wherever he would be traded to, which decimated his value.

Basically, the team waited too long (should've traded him in the summer when he made it clear he was playing hardball) and Jake did them no favors by remaining open to discussions. /shrug

-edit- All that said, I do think this team would've given him whatever he wanted to stick around and keep more of the same ol', same ol'. He just didn't want to sign his colossal deal with a sinking ship, even if he left open the possibility to be dealt down the road when Sid retires.

I misunderstood. That seems to be about right. I don't know about the offer of any colossal deal, maybe? It seemed like Jake figured he was unwanted and resigned to move on. Good for him, I hope he has more success wherever * he is. He deserves more than a slow death in Pittsburgh.

* - I do remember a day or two where a NYR deal was gaining steam in the media. Kakko and some picks, something like that. Gag. That would have been awful.

 

[Gurglesons]

I misunderstood. That seems to be about right. I don't know about the offer of any colossal deal, maybe? It seemed like Jake figured he was unwanted and resigned to move on. Good for him, I hope he has more success wherever * he is. He deserves more than a slow death in Pittsburgh.

* - I do remember a day or two where a NYR deal was gaining steam in the media. Kakko and some picks, something like that. Gag. That would have been awful.

Allegedly Othmann was part of that deal who is a way better prospect then anyone we have.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Allegedly Othmann was part of that deal who is a way better prospect then anyone we have.

I didn't remember that. Not a tough bar to clear in any case.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I misunderstood. That seems to be about right. I don't know about the offer of any colossal deal, maybe? It seemed like Jake figured he was unwanted and resigned to move on. Good for him, I hope he has more success wherever * he is. He deserves more than a slow death in Pittsburgh.

* - I do remember a day or two where a NYR deal was gaining steam in the media. Kakko and some picks, something like that. Gag. That would have been awful.

I am too lazy to look it up but I could've sworn we got some rumors about something like a 6 year, ~$8.5M AAV offer from the Pens during the summer that was summarily rejected and basically made Jake insist on hitting FA regardless of where he ended the season.

I'm glad Jake's gone tbh. Sick of the dude, and it keeps the team from running it back. I wish Dubas would've gotten a better return, but we'll never know for sure whether that was possible. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

I am too lazy to look it up but I could've sworn we got some rumors about something like a 6 year, ~$8.5M AAV offer from the Pens during the summer that was summarily rejected and basically made Jake insist on hitting FA regardless of where he ended the season.

I'm glad Jake's gone tbh. Sick of the dude, and it keeps the team from running it back. I wish Dubas would've gotten a better return, but we'll never know for sure whether that was possible. /shrug

I don't feel this way, but it was certainly weird how many Penguins fans acted like he had some insane legacy here.

He was a great player and had a penchant for being a big player in several playoff runs, but ultimately he ran shotgun on one cup team with Sid and then was largely a focal piece of half a decade of underachievement.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I am too lazy to look it up but I could've sworn we got some rumors about something like a 6 year, ~$8.5M AAV offer from the Pens during the summer that was summarily rejected and basically made Jake insist on hitting FA regardless of where he ended the season.

I'm glad Jake's gone tbh. Sick of the dude, and it keeps the team from running it back. I wish Dubas would've gotten a better return, but we'll never know for sure whether that was possible. /shrug

Sick of Jake? Who hurt you?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sick of Jake? Who hurt you?

View attachment 884687

I don't feel this way, but it was certainly weird how many Penguins fans acted like he had some insane legacy here.

He was a great player and had a penchant for being a big player in several playoff runs, but ultimately he ran shotgun on one cup team with Sid and then was largely a focal piece of half a decade of underachievement.

He just became the epitome of the stagnation and self-satisfaction for this organization, imo. Tons of empty calorie points. Very rarely ever felt like he was a difference maker as much as a dude collecting points. I dunno, couldn't give a shit about Jake tbh. People put him on some weird pedestal here as his time wore down. Early Jake, pre-shoulder injury Jake, was a monster. Later Jake may have been a better point producer, but he never really felt like a guy who was as aggressive or predatory in the offensive zone. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

He just became the epitome of the stagnation and self-satisfaction for this organization, imo. Tons of empty calorie points. Very rarely ever felt like he was a difference maker as much as a dude collecting points. I dunno, couldn't give a shit about Jake tbh. People put him on some weird pedestal here as his time wore down. Early Jake, pre-shoulder injury Jake, was a monster. Later Jake may have been a better point producer, but he never really felt like a guy who was as aggressive or predatory in the offensive zone. /shrug

Seems like a bizarre take. But whatever helps you sleep.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Seems like a bizarre take. But whatever helps you sleep.

The Penguins help me sleep.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I just wish they'd be selling off more guys. The idea of "staying competitive while recovering picks and prospects" is what they should be doing, but they could be more aggressive on the "recovering picks and prospects" aspect of that.

Which is part of what I'm saying. They're not going to do that because it seems the organization wants to just keep things as they are to appease certain people. Trading our players of value for prospects and picks would be very smart, but I think we're not going to do it until we have absolutely no pieces of value left.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but so far, I haven't been. And that sucks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I was encouraged by Sully telling Jars to f*** himself on the bench in the last couple weeks of the regular season, even with meaningful games on the schedule. Probably Sullivan's brightest coaching of the season other than perhaps not totally f***ing DOC up.

It's gonna rule when we don't trade Jarry and he and Sully just sit there stink-eyeing each other all season long while we drop game after winnable game.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

So, everybody is salty because we were not one of the teams who made moves on the off-day of Game 6 of the Cup finals? Is that why everybody is pissed right now?

I will judge Dubas when he makes his next move. I will judge the team the next time I see them play.

The last time Dubas made a move, I liked it. I hated losing Guentzel but I loved the quantity we got back. I hated Michael Bunting with a passion, but he and Malkin clicked nicely. He also looked like a player who actually wants to be here. Good enough for me.

The last time I saw the team play, I liked what I saw. And that was with an old, decrepit Jeff Carter in the lineup; without Ryan Graves; with an absolutely pathetic power play, and with Reirden running the blueline. And that was also with this damn coach.

Also, the little moves made so far have been great: St. Ivany deal is great, Puustinen deal is great.

Let's see what happens next.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah, and in three years we likely have no players ready to take the mantle.

Capitals have a solid nucleus of forwards in Strome, Miroshnichenko, Cristall, PLD, Lapierre, McMichael, and Leonard that will be either hitting their prime or still in their late 20s or just in their early 30s.

Not hard to view if you know anything about their prospect system versus ours.

We will have Rust, Rakell, Letang and Graves all eating up space and in their mid 30s or later.

I mean that's a meh nucleus.

Don't get me wrong, that's better than what the pens have and I am not arguing that. That just is still the nucleus of a bottom 10 team in the league to me.

 

[molon labe]

So, everybody is salty because we were not one of the teams who made moves on the off-day of Game 6 of the Cup finals? Is that why everybody is pissed right now?

I will judge Dubas when he makes his next move. I will judge the team the next time I see them play.

The last time Dubas made a move, I liked it. I hated losing Guentzel but I loved the quantity we got back. I hated Michael Bunting with a passion, but he and Malkin clicked nicely. He also looked like a player who actually wants to be here. Good enough for me.

The last time I saw the team play, I liked what I saw. And that was with an old, decrepit Jeff Carter in the lineup; without Ryan Graves; with an absolutely pathetic power play, and with Reirden running the blueline. And that was also with this damn coach.

Also, the little moves made so far have been great: St. Ivany deal is great, Puustinen deal is great.

Let's see what happens next.

Literally been hearing that same sentiment with Sullivan for 6 years now. Dubas since he was hired.

We shall NOT judge Dubas until at least 2031. Just keep kicking the can down the road. Clearly last year was his first year and nobody can do anything mid season during the year. Dubas came out of the cave to discover the world - thereby first learning what these Penguins were. Film yet not exist! We had to throw another season down the toilet.

Let's be patient and not judge until at least Christmas/Trade Deadline/Summer/Draft/Christmas/Trade Deadline/Summer/Draft.

Outside of his trade garbage for Karlsson, Dubas has been trash.