Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Coastal Kev]

Bertuzzi and Domi are 29 and will turn 30 next season. Duclair will be 29 in the summer. They aren't young. Bertuzzi and Duclair have more than lived up to their draft/scoring position as they were drafted in the 2nd and 3rd rounds respectively. Domi is the only first rounder.

I don't either on LTC's, max 2 years.

 

[Jacob]

We shouldn't be getting roped into any more long-term deals for non-core players or anyone on the wrong side of 31 (or will be on the wrong side of 31 at some point in their deal).

Sign guys to deals like Zucker, Tarasenko and Dumba got and flip them at the deadline if we suck.

 

[Malkinstheman]

We shouldn't be getting roped into any more long-term deals for non-core players or anyone on the wrong side of 31 (or will be on the wrong side of 31 at some point in their deal).

Sign guys to deals like Zucker, Tarasenko and Dumba got and flip them at the deadline if we suck.

Also stop signing career 4th liners like gladdams, Acciari, Nieto etc. Sign waiver fodder like Hino/Zoho and keep them fighting for spots. Why will anyone on the team bust their ass if even the 12th forward has a guaranteed spot?

 

[SEALBound]

Also stop signing career 4th liners like gladdams, Acciari, Nieto etc. Sign waiver fodder like Hino/Zoho and keep them fighting for spots. Why will anyone on the team bust their ass if even the 12th forward has a guaranteed spot?

11 and 12F should be up for grabs by at least 3-4 guys.

There's zero reason why Nieto or Acciari should be on the roster next season. None. I think Acciari will have value just being a center. Nieto can come to camp but unless he lights up the world, he should be waived.

 

[Gurglesons]

11 and 12F should be up for grabs by at least 3-4 guys.

There's zero reason why Nieto or Acciari should be on the roster next season. None. I think Acciari will have value just being a center. Nieto can come to camp but unless he lights up the world, he should be waived.

 

[SEALBound]

View attachment 867327

maybe...

 

[66-30-33]

View attachment 867327

We can get Stamkos and Marner and still miss the playoffs. Sully will be fine though, we will just change around the roster. It MUST be the roster.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

Mike Sullivan is the captain of the Titanic, and the front office is content with rearranging the deck chairs as the iceberg approaches.

 

[Rudy Russo]

I'm with you on Bertz and Domi, though I don't think Domi leaves Toronto.

I'm not sure Duclair has the foot speed and skating ability to keep up with Sid for a season. If we want Duclair, I think you should trade Smith and sign Duclair as a third-line wing. Then he can fill in where and if needed.

Bertuzzi-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Yager
Duclair-Pono-DOC
Poulin-Eller-Acciari

Would look pretty decent.


New coaching staff, I do.

Sullivan, I don't.

I'd love Domi on the penguins, but I agree with you that the Leafs with re-sign him especially if they trade Marner.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I agree that we definitely should be careful not to sign too many players for too much money moving forward. That said, we need one top-six forward. We need help for the power play. Ideally, you can get one guy to help both areas. And yes, we should be trying to avoid veterans.

But the way I look at the roster, we will be able to get younger if we replace the likes of Smith and Eller with the likes of Poulin and Yager (just hypothetical examples). We can also get younger by not re-signing Nedeljkovic, promote Blomqvist and find a journeyman No. 3 man to play in the AHL. OR trade Jarry and re-sign Ned. Either way works. I don't think we are going to be able to trade Graves and Rakell this off-season, and we should desperately avoid adding "sweeteners" to try to remove players from the roster. That is not how to retool this roster. That is how to continue to go down the path we were going down before Dubas arrived and before the Guentzel trade.

But, for the right fit, we should be buyers. One guy. That is all. But a key guy, a potential core guy. An impact guy. Someone who can add what is missing to both Malkin's line and the first PP unit. Marner has been discussed already, but I think he will stay in Toronto. I don't think he wants to go anywhere, and I don't think they want to trade him for pennies on the dollar.

Stamkos is too old for what we would ideally like, but there is no denying how much of an improvement the PP would be if we had a shooter on the left side. Sam Reinhart is going to cost a ton of money, and Florida will move players out to keep him. But he is another guy who checks a lot of boxes. Guentzel, of course, will likely be an option, albeit not a perfect one imo.

We should target one key forward, preferably a right-winger for the Malkin-Bunting combination and preferably a guy who can help turn our power play around. Reirden being gone helps, but we need more help than that.

 

[Coastal Kev]

View attachment 867327

Full on dork right there. No man has made more and deserved so much less. Andy........can I sue Sullivan for making a mockery of my work/income??

 

[Jacob]

I’ve tweaked my Jarry for Campbell idea a tad. Instead of them eating 15-20% and adding a pick they eat nothing but add Broberg. So something like Jarry + a body (Nieto, or they might prefer Ludvig) for Campbell, Holloway, Broberg.

Broberg is sort of in the same place as Poulin and I don’t think his value is quite what Holloway’s is but he’s not a throw-in, he’s a young cost-controlled D with 2nd pairing upside. Good size and terrific mobility. Possible Pettersson replacement or at worst a guy to push/challenge Joseph for that 2nd pairing LD spot.

Edmonton sheds Campbell with no retention and gets a starter back. We can try to rehabilitate Campbell a bit or just bury him. We have cheap goalies in the system so the 3.75m or whatever penalty to the cap to bury him means little, not to mention the money saved on Holloway & Broberg as RFAs that won’t command much more than league minimum. And these guys, if they pan out, will be around years after Campbell’s deal is up.

We get bigger, younger, faster.

 

[66-30-33]

Jarry to Canucks, he can backup Demko when he gets injured.

 

[Andy99]

Full on dork right there. No man has made more and deserved so much less. Andy........can I sue Sullivan for making a mockery of my work/income??

Yes, I think everyone should sue Sullivan and FSG for making their lives miserable and for false pretenses: they said they were going to contend but didn’t really make the investment…let’s at least show FSG the fans are pissed off before we get laughed out of court…

Jarry to Canucks, he can backup Demko when he gets injured.

And then when Jarry’s injured lol?

 

[66-30-33]

Yes, I think everyone should sue Sullivan and FSG for making their lives miserable and for false pretenses: they said they were going to contend but didn’t really make the investment…let’s at least show FSG the fans are pissed off before we get laughed out of court…


And then when Jarry’s injured lol?

That's ok if he is, he's not our problem anymore. Also we once had a playoffs with Crosby/Malkin injured.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Yes, I think everyone should sue Sullivan and FSG for making their lives miserable and for false pretenses: they said they were going to contend but didn’t really make the investment…let’s at least show FSG the fans are pissed off before we get laughed out of court…


And then when Jarry’s injured lol?

I'm in sales, so I'll reach out to a betting site for sponsorship. I will also be adding myself Pro Se with an argument that FSG conspired to destroy the franchise due to longstanding grudge that began with the Penguins changing their team colors to match the city's and Ulf's complete & utter destruction of one time local bully hero Cam Neely.

Let's meet offline to discuss.

 

[SEALBound]

Mike Sullivan is the captain of the Titanic, and the front office is content with rearranging the deck chairs as the iceberg approaches.

That's a good reference. Sullivan is the Captain saying, "Well, just close the hatches. This ship can't sink," as he looks out from the bow and sees it dipping into the ocean.

"Capt Sullivan, your ship went down and you lost over 2,000 people...what...what do you have to say for yourself?"

"Well, I thought we sailed hard. There are a lot of good icebergs out there, and sometimes it is thought to sail across the Atlantic. We didn't get to our game. When you hit an iceberg, you have to keep the ship from sinking, and we didn't do that."

"um...okay, what about Associate Captain Reirden or First Mate Velluci? Certainly, they will be shown the door for their role in this?"

"I'LL KILL YOU!!!!" *Sullivan dives over the table and lunges at the reporter."

I agree that we definitely should be careful not to sign too many players for too much money moving forward. That said, we need one top-six forward. We need help for the power play. Ideally, you can get one guy to help both areas. And yes, we should be trying to avoid veterans.

But the way I look at the roster, we will be able to get younger if we replace the likes of Smith and Eller with the likes of Poulin and Yager (just hypothetical examples). We can also get younger by not re-signing Nedeljkovic, promote Blomqvist and find a journeyman No. 3 man to play in the AHL. OR trade Jarry and re-sign Ned. Either way works. I don't think we are going to be able to trade Graves and Rakell this off-season, and we should desperately avoid adding "sweeteners" to try to remove players from the roster. That is not how to retool this roster. That is how to continue to go down the path we were going down before Dubas arrived and before the Guentzel trade.

But, for the right fit, we should be buyers. One guy. That is all. But a key guy, a potential core guy. An impact guy. Someone who can add what is missing to both Malkin's line and the first PP unit. Marner has been discussed already, but I think he will stay in Toronto. I don't think he wants to go anywhere, and I don't think they want to trade him for pennies on the dollar.

Stamkos is too old for what we would ideally like, but there is no denying how much of an improvement the PP would be if we had a shooter on the left side. Sam Reinhart is going to cost a ton of money, and Florida will move players out to keep him. But he is another guy who checks a lot of boxes. Guentzel, of course, will likely be an option, albeit not a perfect one imo.

We should target one key forward, preferably a right-winger for the Malkin-Bunting combination and preferably a guy who can help turn our power play around. Reirden being gone helps, but we need more help than that.

I agree with everything. I've said in the past, "If you want to get younger...get younger." It's not hard. It starts with exactly what you suggested: you remove older players and replace them with younger players. With the current cap situation, that is incredibly easy for us to do. You could easily site Nieto, Acciari, and Eller and play Pono, Poulin, and Yager. Granted, I think Eller is fine, but I'm just making the point.

I think there needs to be some realization that the strategy of bringing in those three and building the two defense-only lines not only didn't work as intended, but it flat-out doesn't work in hockey anymore. Every single playoff team right now can roll four lines. Granted, a lot of them lean on a solid top 9, but none of the teams' 4th lines are liabilities like we just iced this year. Not one has to "hide" or "shelter" anyone.

If you didn't want major roster turnovers, that's fine, but you can still recreate the entire roster a bit:

XXXX-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Rakell
DOC-XXXX-Puust/Pono/Koivunen/etc
Nieto-Eller-Acciari

If you resign RFAs and promote Blomy, you have about $14mil to play with in space. You can 100% get a Debrusk or Wennberg or Roslovich to bolster the top 9 while maintaining a hell of a defensive 4th line.

I think Dubas needs to be aggressively creative on the trade front. That needs to come with a couple of core ideals:
1. Outside of Sid, Geno, and Letang (and apparently Rust) - there is zero loyalty here. Time to f***ing remake the roster.
2. We need goaltending that is "good enough". We need the Georgiev or Kreumper level goaltending. Jarry isn't Bobs, Shesterkin, Swayman, etc. We don't have that in Jarry now, nor is that available in trade or FA. Blomqvist and Murashov aren't there yet as far as we know. But it's tough to watch $5.75mil go to a goalie that isn't winning you undeserved games, especially when you are pretty much forced to ride your backup to end the season. Is Neds a starter? Meh, probably not. But between him and Blomqvist, can you get "good enough" goaltending on any given night? I think so.
3. 3 offensive lines, 1 defensive line. Seek players with shooting ability, even if they are one-dimensional. We need another Kessel, not another Smith/Rakell/Rust. If that means bringing Jake back, fine.

I would give my blessing to Dubas to go make that roster regardless of Sullivan's feelings. If he doesn't use them how intended, adios. But truthfully, that needs to happen anyway. Standard disclaimer being - I don't know how effective any of this really will be if Sullivan is behind the bench next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’ve tweaked my Jarry for Campbell idea a tad. Instead of them eating 15-20% and adding a pick they eat nothing but add Broberg. So something like Jarry + a body (Nieto, or they might prefer Ludvig) for Campbell, Holloway, Broberg.

Broberg is sort of in the same place as Poulin and I don’t think his value is quite what Holloway’s is but he’s not a throw-in, he’s a young cost-controlled D with 2nd pairing upside. Good size and terrific mobility. Possible Pettersson replacement or at worst a guy to push/challenge Joseph for that 2nd pairing LD spot.

Edmonton sheds Campbell with no retention and gets a starter back. We can try to rehabilitate Campbell a bit or just bury him. We have cheap goalies in the system so the 3.75m or whatever penalty to the cap to bury him means little, not to mention the money saved on Holloway & Broberg as RFAs that won’t command much more than league minimum. And these guys, if they pan out, will be around years after Campbell’s deal is up.

We get bigger, younger, faster.

I'm not sure Broberg is an NHLer.

Tomasino is allegedly on his way out of Nashville.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

 

[Gurglesons]

Rossi was allegedly offered for Cutter. I don't see us having that type of ammo.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I agree with everything. I've said in the past, "If you want to get younger...get younger." It's not hard. It starts with exactly what you suggested: you remove older players and replace them with younger players. With the current cap situation, that is incredibly easy for us to do. You could easily site Nieto, Acciari, and Eller and play Pono, Poulin, and Yager. Granted, I think Eller is fine, but I'm just making the point.

I think there needs to be some realization that the strategy of bringing in those three and building the two defense-only lines not only didn't work as intended, but it flat-out doesn't work in hockey anymore. Every single playoff team right now can roll four lines. Granted, a lot of them lean on a solid top 9, but none of the teams' 4th lines are liabilities like we just iced this year. Not one has to "hide" or "shelter" anyone.

If you didn't want major roster turnovers, that's fine, but you can still recreate the entire roster a bit:

XXXX-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Rakell
DOC-XXXX-Puust/Pono/Koivunen/etc
Nieto-Eller-Acciari

If you resign RFAs and promote Blomy, you have about $14mil to play with in space. You can 100% get a Debrusk or Wennberg or Roslovic to bolster the top 9 while maintaining a hell of a defensive 4th line.

I think Dubas needs to be aggressively creative on the trade front. That needs to come with a couple of core ideals:
1. Outside of Sid, Geno, and Letang (and apparently Rust) - there is zero loyalty here. Time to f***ing remake the roster.
2. We need goaltending that is "good enough". We need the Georgiev or Kreumper level goaltending. Jarry isn't Bobs, Shesterkin, Swayman, etc. We don't have that in Jarry now, nor is that available in trade or FA. Blomqvist and Murashov aren't there yet as far as we know. But it's tough to watch $5.75mil go to a goalie that isn't winning you undeserved games, especially when you are pretty much forced to ride your backup to end the season. Is Neds a starter? Meh, probably not. But between him and Blomqvist, can you get "good enough" goaltending on any given night? I think so.
3. 3 offensive lines, 1 defensive line. Seek players with shooting ability, even if they are one-dimensional. We need another Kessel, not another Smith/Rakell/Rust. If that means bringing Jake back, fine.

I would give my blessing to Dubas to go make that roster regardless of Sullivan's feelings. If he doesn't use them how intended, adios. But truthfully, that needs to happen anyway. Standard disclaimer being - I don't know how effective any of this really will be if Sullivan is behind the bench next year.

I agree with you on most of this. We may differ on players coming in or even going out, but the bottom line is the same.

I agree that Eller is fine. The reason I want to trade him is because he has value. And we have three young centers that we need to develop properly. I prefer trading Eller over Acciari because Eller has value and those young guys can battle it out in training camp to see who gets the No. 3 center job. That should make for a great camp.

In fact, if it were up to me TWO of those three guys would be in the lineup opening night. Acciari should really play wing. I have always liked him more as a winger in the NHL, which of course is why Sullivan plays him at center. But the other reason why I would keep Acciari and trade Eller is because Acciari could even be your 13th forward if he continues to struggle. That gives another younger player an opportunity.

I am a little meh on Roslovic. Wennberg I don't really want at all for the reasons why I want to trade Eller: let the center kids play. Same reason I don't want to pursue Chandler Stephenson. DeBrusk? Absolutely. I would love him.

Re: your projected lineup, I still would go with O'Connor-Crosby-Rust. I loved that line down the stretch. AND, you really don't need Lars Eller if that is your first line. You can have a third scoring line if that is your first line. SO, as much as I love Jake Guentzel, he no longer fits if Sullivan just wants to run it back with Guentzel-Crosby-Rust. I don't necessarily think the Guentzel ship has sailed, but that line hopefully has. O'Connor brings energy, speed, defensive awareness and size to that line. Can he keep up in the scoring department? We will find out! He was very impressive in most of those huge games with our season on the line. That counts for a lot.

I am 100% with you on the goaltending. Keep Jarry. Trade Jarry. For me, it makes no difference. Blomqvist should be given every chance to make the team, either way. We are not built around the goaltending. We just need more stability.

 

[SEALBound]

Rossi was allegedly offered for Cutter. I don't see us having that type of ammo.

Yeah, Rossi is their 22yo 2C who was a 20-20 guys last year. Given their buyout penalties next year which then go to 900k, he seems like the exact player they should be keeping.

If you do a search of 18-23yos and rank by points, there's not a ton of guys that I think would even be available. Hoglander, Newhook, Mercer, or Holtz are about the only ones that I put a maybe sign on. If they wanted to offer Jarry+Koivunen to NJD for Holtz though, I that would be fine.

Oddly, there are two other guys that could be maybes as well - Drury and KK - but I wonder if there's even a deal to send the others guys back. I'd do Pono or the 2nd for Drury. KK would be a tough sell.

Some others might be: Kakko, Kaliyev, Poitras if Boston gets Lindholm to sign, Barret Hayton, Brission, Turcotte, and possibly even Zegras if they truly want to move him.

I agree with you on most of this. We may differ on players coming in or even going out, but the bottom line is the same.

I agree that Eller is fine. The reason I want to trade him is because he has value. And we have three young centers that we need to develop properly. I prefer trading Eller over Acciari because Eller has value and those young guys can battle it out in training camp to see who gets the No. 3 center job. That should make for a great camp.

In fact, if it were up to me TWO of those three guys would be in the lineup opening night. Acciari should really play wing. I have always liked him more as a winger in the NHL, which of course is why Sullivan plays him at center. But the other reason why I would keep Acciari and trade Eller is because Acciari could even be your 13th forward if he continues to struggle. That gives another younger player an opportunity.

I am a little meh on Roslovic. Wennberg I don't really want at all for the reasons why I want to trade Eller: let the center kids play. Same reason I don't want to pursue Chandler Stephenson. DeBrusk? Absolutely. I would love him.

Re: your projected lineup, I still would go with O'Connor-Crosby-Rust. I loved that line down the stretch. AND, you really don't need Lars Eller if that is your first line. You can have a third scoring line if that is your first line. SO, as much as I love Jake Guentzel, he no longer fits if Sullivan just wants to run it back with Guentzel-Crosby-Rust. I don't necessarily think the Guentzel ship has sailed, but that line hopefully has. O'Connor brings energy, speed, defensive awareness and size to that line. Can he keep up in the scoring department? We will find out! He was very impressive in most of those huge games with our season on the line. That counts for a lot.

I am 100% with you on the goaltending. Keep Jarry. Trade Jarry. For me, it makes no difference. Blomqvist should be given every chance to make the team, either way. We are not built around the goaltending. We just need more stability.

Eller has one year left. Acciari has two. I thought Eller was a much better player, thus I'd elect to keep him. I don't think he hold any value higher than Acciari. I think we'd be lucky to get a 4th or 5th for either. The other centers I mentioned, I'm meh on them too but they are available. Hard to find offensive 3Cs that are realistically available. Trying to find the next Bonino is tough.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yeah, Rossi is their 22yo 2C who was a 20-20 guys last year. Given their buyout penalties next year which then go to 900k, he seems like the exact player they should be keeping.

If you do a search of 18-23yos and rank by points, there's not a ton of guys that I think would even be available. Hoglander, Newhook, Mercer, or Holtz are about the only ones that I put a maybe sign on. If they wanted to offer Jarry+Koivunen to NJD for Holtz though, I that would be fine.

Oddly, there are two other guys that could be maybes as well - Drury and KK - but I wonder if there's even a deal to send the others guys back. I'd do Pono or the 2nd for Drury. KK would be a tough sell.

Some others might be: Kakko, Kaliyev, Poitras if Boston gets Lindholm to sign, Barret Hayton, Brission, Turcotte, and possibly even Zegras if they truly want to move him.

Eller has one year left. Acciari has two. I thought Eller was a much better player, thus I'd elect to keep him. I don't think he hold any value higher than Acciari. I think we'd be lucky to get a 4th or 5th for either. The other centers I mentioned, I'm meh on them too but they are available. Hard to find offensive 3Cs that are realistically available. Trying to find the next Bonino is tough.

See I am not looking outside the organization for a 3C. I am looking to develop the three that we have. One of them should be ready to handle that role next season, and one (or more) could become eventual Malkin/Crosby replacements over time. But it all starts with next season and the third line. Keeping Eller for the fourth line seems redundant to me. I also disagree about the trade values of Eller versus Acciari. I believe Eller's value is quite a bit higher at present time. Acciari is another one of those Sullivan victims, whose game has completely gone into the crapper.

Of those names you mentioned, Holtz stands out to me as someone who could really help us. Most of those guys could help, but he stands out to me. If the Devils want Jarry, awesome. I doubt it, but awesome.

 

[SEALBound]

See I am not looking outside the organization for a 3C. I am looking to develop the three that we have. One of them should be ready to handle that role next season, and one (or more) could become eventual Malkin/Crosby replacements over time. But it all starts with next season and the third line. Keeping Eller for the fourth line seems redundant to me. I also disagree about the trade values of Eller versus Acciari. I believe Eller's value is quite a bit higher at present time. Acciari is another one of those Sullivan victims, whose game has completely gone into the crapper.

Of those names you mentioned, Holtz stands out to me as someone who could really help us. Most of those guys could help, but he stands out to me. If the Devils want Jarry, awesome. I doubt it, but awesome.

I don't disagree about Eller having more value than Acciari but I think it's the difference between a 4th and a 6th. In that respect, I'd that keep Eller because he's a bit better. I think Eller is more valuable to us than the return we would get but Acciari's $2mil in cap space is more valuable than the difference in returns.

That all said, Nieto-Eller-Acciari would be a bomb defensive 4th line for us if we are forced to keep everyone.

Now, if we want to look internally for the 3C, that's easy - Ponomarov. Skipping Eller and Acciari, he's the next one on the depth chart and in talking to Hurricane fans, he would be capable of playing there. If you could get get Drury for Pono or the 2nd and Holtz for Jarry+Koivunen, you could put together a hell of a roster:

DOC-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Smith(trade)-Drury-Holtz
Nieto-Eller-Acciari

POJ-Letang
Petts-EK
Graves-Shea/Ludvig/etc

Neds-Blomqvist

Preference would obviously be to send Smith out for a younger 3LW coming back.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Rossi was allegedly offered for Cutter. I don't see us having that type of ammo.

Does Rossi know what F3 is yet?