GilbertSeinfeld
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2024
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Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"
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AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Every year people say this tired garbage, and every year this is wrong.
The Pens could literally throw the 2025, 2026, 2027 1sts at Toronto. They can give them Jarry at 50% retained. They can give them DOC, Puustinen, Joseph, Graves at 50%. They can give them all the prospects they just got in the Guentzel trade. Can throw in Smith.
Are you saying that if the Pens sent this entire package for 1 year of Marner - a guy they wanna get rid of probably and ghosts in the playoffs - the Leafs will reject the offer?
No? Great. We've established the Pens HAVE THE ASSETS.
It's not about not having enough, okay? If a team truly wanted someone bad enough, they can swing it. It's about not overextending. At some point it becomes stupid.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
- 77,125
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If the Pens are going for a big ticket winger and would rather not roll the dice on Dubois' contract, Stamkos on a 3-4 year deal would make a lot more sense than giving up assets for Marner.
Stamkis is older, but he's also much cheaper, a much better goal scorer, exactly what we need on the PP, and most importantly wouldn't require any assets so he wouldn't compromise the future.
Stamkis is older, but he's also much cheaper, a much better goal scorer, exactly what we need on the PP, and most importantly wouldn't require any assets so he wouldn't compromise the future.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Tampa's cap is for sure interesting. 12.5M to sign 4F and 2D. That includes an LD for the 2nd pairing most likely, unless they trust Fleury or De Haan in that role.
If he is staying, I wonder how they swing it. He'd have to take a lowball AAV in exchange for the term.
I also wonder what Stamkos would do here. Would he even reach 30 goals here, with this PP? No more Kucherov and Hedman feeding him pucks. No more functioning PP schematic, with threats on both walls, diverting attention away from him. He relies heavily on PPGs now. That was 19 of his 40 goals.
Dipsy Doodle
Rent A Barn
- May 28, 2006
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Crosby and Karlsson aren't exactly chopped liver, and Marner would no longer have the best goal scorer in the league on his line if he came here, either. Not that it helped him in the playoffs.
Bottom line is that from skillset, cap hit, and asset management perspectives, Stamkos makes a lot more sense if Tampa doesn't bring him back.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Well if he was only able to get 80 points with Kucherov during an MVP year, what's a realistic projection for him here?
I'd say like 28g 32A, after you apply the Mike Sullivan hockey tax, and him getting quite old. He's also really becoming shit defensively.
Sid hasn't been able to prevent PP1 from being trash the last 2 years and EK was dogshit on the unit.
It depends on what AAV Stammer wants and for how long.
I'd be open to it, personally. Mostly just want to have fun watching the team at this point.
The things I mentioned above are from a practicality standpoint. Let's say he wants like 8 mil still. What kind of totals does he need to reach to be worth that? And will he able to do that?
Last thing this team needs is Marner types. Stammer maybe helpful but I worry about yet another high touch PP mouth to feed. The whole too many chiefs not enough tribe.
If anyone is watching these playoffs and not thinking we need to get bigger/more physical/more engaged - idk what to tell you. Though, sully wouldn’t play those players anyway and it’s hard to say how much is purely roster vs instruction.
Some day advanced analytics will have better on ice position and interaction stats vs derived/assumed metrics. They will show the importance of smart physical play to create space and opportunity. Skating, positioning, systems are so good in the league - you’re not burning or dangling through reliably. Nothing creates opportunity like a checked player being off assignment for 1.5 seconds. It allows the skill, particularly aging skill, the time and space needed to be dangerous.
Our roster could be improved in almost any direction, but I hope management focuses on making us more playoff optimized.
If anyone is watching these playoffs and not thinking we need to get bigger/more physical/more engaged - idk what to tell you. Though, sully wouldn’t play those players anyway and it’s hard to say how much is purely roster vs instruction.
Some day advanced analytics will have better on ice position and interaction stats vs derived/assumed metrics. They will show the importance of smart physical play to create space and opportunity. Skating, positioning, systems are so good in the league - you’re not burning or dangling through reliably. Nothing creates opportunity like a checked player being off assignment for 1.5 seconds. It allows the skill, particularly aging skill, the time and space needed to be dangerous.
Our roster could be improved in almost any direction, but I hope management focuses on making us more playoff optimized.
SomeDude
Registered User
Stamkos would theoretically go a long way to fix the PP because he actually shoots and shoots well.
That is, until he gets coached up and his game is fixed by Sully and his merry band of idiot coaches. Gotta defer to the Geno one timer. 3% of the time, it works every time.
It’s moot either way because we shouldn’t be adding another star on their last legs and if Stamkos leaves TB it’s to get one last big pay which we cannot give him.
What this team lacks the most (aside from good coaching) is actual no joke shooting talent. Someone that is an actual threat to snipe a corner when they get even a slim window. Stamkos might fit that role, if he's healthy and not too far down the decline ladder.
Pens came on when the first 2 lines had DOC and Bunting on left wings. Both did what was needed for Sid and Geno wingers who go to the net and can play in the hard areas. Pens need a LW like Stephenson to bring additional grit and scoring. that helps the Pens far more than an over price offensive forward who plays away from the hard areas.
yeah, this is probably the worst year in a while to have that happen.
sully would see him as a penalty killer.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
JRS91
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2010
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Okay, let me reiterate. The Penguins have inferior assets to what other teams can offer.
Toronto needs defensemen, and why on earth would they want Graves? Why would they want a bunch of bottom-six players? Prospects included. I'm sure Toronto would love another inconsistent goalie.
The more realistic package would be Rust or Rakell and Karlsson and even then Toronto could probably fetch a better return than that. This isn't a case where you give up all your bad players for their good player. This is a 27 year old guy who's been a point-per-game player since he's come into the league in the regular season and the playoffs.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Marner has a full NMC and can pick any destination he goes to. Toronto doesn't have the ability to let other teams outbid the Penguins if Marner won't waive his NMC to go there.
JRS91
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2010
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I think that just gives more volition that he's not coming here.
Why would someone entering their prime want to come to a team that's more than likely past their Stanley Cup window?
AjaxTelamon
Registered User
- Jul 8, 2011
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There were sufficient opportunities to change the direction of the franchise over the past few offseasons, offramps from Geno to Trochek, trading Rust in a hockey deal to get more grit after PH left, not wasting assets and cap space on bad players like Granlund, or over the hill players like Petry.
At this point, the cap space and assets to do that are gone or can't be spent, we can't be sending out more 1sts trying to compete now. Normally the best course would be to just ride the aging stars to a high draft pick. This would all just be the regular cycle of life in hockey if Sid wasn't still playing at a high level. That's what makes all this a shame. Building around Sid should have been the directive the last few years, and swapping in Trochek, who doesn't need to be so heavily sheltered like Geno, would have been a great first step.
IMO, the only real chance they have to be competitive in the next few years is another Jake type trade sending Rust out, and bringing in a few lottery ticket young players, and letting them all battle it out for playing time with the Poulin's and Puus's and just hope they hit on some of them. You're not getting anything for Rakell right now, so you might as well just put him with Sid and hope he returns to form, which is the most sure thing of any of this longshot plan.
At this point, the cap space and assets to do that are gone or can't be spent, we can't be sending out more 1sts trying to compete now. Normally the best course would be to just ride the aging stars to a high draft pick. This would all just be the regular cycle of life in hockey if Sid wasn't still playing at a high level. That's what makes all this a shame. Building around Sid should have been the directive the last few years, and swapping in Trochek, who doesn't need to be so heavily sheltered like Geno, would have been a great first step.
IMO, the only real chance they have to be competitive in the next few years is another Jake type trade sending Rust out, and bringing in a few lottery ticket young players, and letting them all battle it out for playing time with the Poulin's and Puus's and just hope they hit on some of them. You're not getting anything for Rakell right now, so you might as well just put him with Sid and hope he returns to form, which is the most sure thing of any of this longshot plan.
I don’t agree with all your points but I believe your overall concept is correct.
I’m starting to really feel like our shooting % and execution would improve with guys who can stand in front of the net. Not another guy who will lineup one timers for a goalie who can see the puck easily.
Someone who will do the work in the corners and pull defenders out of the box.
I think we need more Bunting/Hornqvist guys and not Marner/Stamkos ones.
Gurglesons
Registered User
This off season will indicate what Dubas has in mind for the rebuild. Jake trade may not have been the best deal with Jake not signing an extension to bring that value to a higher level. What I do hope is not only he sees the need to take away the Sullivan not employing bigger wingers with grit, but the ability to play different style of games as needed.
Stephenson Sid Rust
Bunting Geno Rakell
DOC Eller FA
Stephenson Sid Rust
Bunting Geno Rakell
DOC Eller FA
- Jun 13, 2010
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I don't think I agree with this. The Penguins did very well after getting Kessel, who was a play driving offensive threat that could help 5v5 and on the PP. That said, there was balance. Phil was hardly Mr. Physical but that was balanced out by the likes of Hagelin and Bonino. You also had Hornqvist on the roster. I don't think the solution is to run something like: Jake, Marner, Rust, and Smith/Rakell as your top 6 because that's all the same. If you can balance out Marner with Bunting, I think that would work well.
To be fair, Jake-Sid-Rust was one of the top lines in the league and they aren't overly physical. There's a willingness for all three to go into the corners and mix it up but none of them are out there throwing hits.
We need less Smith, Rust, and Rakells. The "overall well rounded top 6 wing" is something we have plenty of. I would rather us focus on specific skills sets and balance it out rather than multiple "all around guys".
Amen. A-f***ing-men.
No to Stammer but absolutely yes to guys with shooting talent.
I think unless Marner gives a flexible list of destinations he would be willing to go to, I think it's going to be a disaster for Toronto, not unlike the Kessel trade was. They should be expecting a Kapanen-level prospect and a 1st. Marner is really, really good, but he has a $ 10 million deal for one year. I imagine if there are any serious discussions, Trevs grants permission for the GMs to speak to the agent to discuss extensions. Marner was willing to hold the team captive to get max dollars...and that was his hometown. I don't see him giving anyone else a discount and I don't see him taking a cut. So whoever it is, they better have the cap space and willingness to commit.
Malkinstheman
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2012
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I'd prefer if we stop adding guys in their mid 30s. Especially ones that rely on the PP for a big chunk of their production.
Gurglesons
Registered User
- Jun 13, 2010
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I generally support that idea...but I also look at how putrid the powerplay is and I can't bring myself to click the like button
Might depend on price though. I'm expeting him to sign a 3-4 year deal at $5-6mil. Not unlike Letang and Malkin did. That wouldn't be worth it here but I certainly wouldn't say no to a 1yr $3mil deal if he was willing.
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