Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Malkinstheman]

That's a bigger internal problem between scouting, drafting, and coaching. When we have young players that might play a role as depth when needed, they get passed over for vets. When we draft, we don't have many picks for depth and we haven't had the success that other clubs have had there. And we scout for (and pick up) dudes on the waiver wire, UFA market, and trades like Harkins, Accairi, Nieto, and more.

Seeing guys like St.Ivany and Puusty not look out of place has made me wonder how many young guys the org has thrown away. I am still adamant that a guy like Hallander would been a good middle-6 guy here but Sullivan knows best.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ruhwedel was bland and basically did nothing but eat minutes in his role, similar to ZAR in most of his time here. He's a guy that just exists but doesn't help or hurt your team at all. St. Ivany looks like he can be a plus version of that, which isn't a super useful player but is useful in a depth role IMO.

Seeing guys like St.Ivany and Puusty not look out of place has made me wonder how many young guys the org has thrown away. I am still adamant that a guy like Hallander would been a good middle-6 guy here but Sullivan knows best.

I don't really blame Sullivan for Hallander. Hallander was just impatient and decided that he'd rather go play in Sweden because he wasn't gifted a NHL spot at age 21.

Hallander would be really nice to have in their bottom-6 at this point, but Hallander's situation was him being impatient more than Sullivan not giving him a fair shot IMO.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Seeing guys like St.Ivany and Puusty not look out of place has made me wonder how many young guys the org has thrown away. I am still adamant that a guy like Hallander would been a good middle-6 guy here but Sullivan knows best.

I love how every single season we get all pumped for training camp even though it means diddly shit.

 

[Malkinstheman]

The team even got productive seasons out of Kuhn and Wilson for a couple seasons for God's sake. The bar for young guys to make the NHL has been WAY too high for the last 5 years. Why waste time on trash like Harkins, Garret Wilson, Kevin Porter etc when a young guy might actually provide something above replacement level.

 

[Gurglesons]

I love how every single season we get all pumped for training camp even though it means diddly shit.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this UFA. Wouldn't be shocked if we go into the season with 4-5 million in cap open.

 

[SEALBound]

We just had a spell of higher-ish picks just flat out not turn into anything and I'm not sure that I blame anyone other than the player really. Hallander, Bjorkqvist, Hall, Legare, Lauzon, Phillips...that's 6 2nd/3rd round picks that amounted to absolutely nothing from 2016 on. Some got hurt, some played a small number of games but man, when you're looking at a roster void of mid-20's talent and you wonder what happened...there's the answer.

For real. There was some real copium chugging over the years re: Ruh. Like... guys... this player is clearly horrible and they are clearly still playing him. That's bad. Hell even I said years back that he's fine for a depth D to hand a league minimum deal to and then have him ride the bench so a young guy doesn't have to. But it definitely didn't work out that way, either haha

I wanted Rudwedel gone, 100%, but the one thing that was semi-nice about a guy like him was that he...did...provide basic-level bottom-pairing services. He provided it for league minimum. And, at his age and ability, he's a guy you could HS for 81 games, then play him #82 without missing much and without worry about what being a HS for 81 games would do for his development.

I wouldn't want to scratch Shea or JSI for 81 games.

I love how every single season we get all pumped for training camp even though it means diddly shit.

When was the last time we had a camp with a crop of young guys like Pono, Yager, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, etc?

Typically, there is ONE guy we are hopeful for.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this UFA. Wouldn't be shocked if we go into the season with 4-5 million in cap open.

If they are not in it at the TDL, it would be a big help if we want to look to act as a third party salary retention broker or take on a bad contract for payment.

 

[Gurglesons]

We just had a spell of higher-ish picks just flat out not turn into anything and I'm not sure that I blame anyone other than the player really. Hallander, Bjorkqvist, Hall, Legare, Lauzon, Phillips...that's 6 2nd/3rd round picks that amounted to absolutely nothing from 2016 on. Some got hurt, some played a small number of games but man, when you're looking at a roster void of mid-20's talent and you wonder what happened...there's the answer.

Meh. When those total players were given a total of 9 games in the NHL to show their game, I think it's a little bit of both.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Meh. When those total players were given a total of 9 games in the NHL to show their game, I think it's a little bit of both.

I think the only one that showed that they even remotely deserved a NHL shot of that group is Hallander. JR's drafts over those 3 years were atrocious.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

When was the last time we had a camp with a crop of young guys like Pono, Yager, Koivunen, Broz, Pickering, etc?

Eh. I mean obviously I hope you're right. But we'll see how many vet contracts for Sullivan's favorite zero-event style hockey players we get between now and then to conveniently help kick the can down the road, again. Guys like Poulin and Puus have looked really, really good in prior camps and they get sent on their way with an "atta boy... learn how to PK and maybe we'll talk someday" for their efforts.

If you can't tell I'm firmly in "f*** these guys until they show me different" territory. Tired of looking like an asshole. Well... MORE of an asshole.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the only one that showed that they even remotely deserved a NHL shot of that group is Hallander. JR's drafts over those 3 years were atrocious.

Fair, but Poulin only getting six games prior to his waiver eligibility is burned is just bizarre despite his medical issues.

Puustinen too is another one where he shoudl probably be at 100+ games and is barely at 60.

 

[SEALBound]

Meh. When those total players were given a total of 9 games in the NHL to show their game, I think it's a little bit of both.

To get the NHL, you have to earn it. Not sure many, if any, of them earned any more than that. You can make the argument though that we had a plethora of non-impact talent blocking roster spots. 2016 was great because Porter went down and Duper retired. That opened up 2 spots that Kuhn, Sheary, Wilson, and Rusty were able to rotate through. After that, it's an injury here and there with spot duty. For Bjorkqvist for example, you had McGinn, Blueger, Simon, ZAR, and Brian Boyle taking up roster spots that you would need to give to him. Rarely did our GMs build a roster that even allowed us to bring some of these guys in. Combine that with Sullivan-ism and the players just not doing all that great...yeah, there's a lot of factors as to why they didn't work out.

 

[Gurglesons]

To get the NHL, you have to earn it. Not sure many, if any, of them earned any more than that. You can make the argument though that we had a plethora of non-impact talent blocking roster spots. 2016 was great because Porter went down and Duper retired. That opened up 2 spots that Kuhn, Sheary, Wilson, and Rusty were able to rotate through. After that, it's an injury here and there with spot duty. For Bjorkqvist for example, you had McGinn, Blueger, Simon, ZAR, and Brian Boyle taking up roster spots that you would need to give to him. Rarely did our GMs build a roster that even allowed us to bring some of these guys in. Combine that with Sullivan-ism and the players just not doing all that great...yeah, there's a lot of factors as to why they didn't work out.

Drew O'Connor has been a better player than what we've been running in our bottom six for three years. Yet this year is the first time he got regular NHL minutes.

Poulin has way more upside than a Harkins. Yet he's played 6 games.

Puustinen has been NHL ready for a year plus and barely got a spot out of camp.

 

[SEALBound]

Eh. I mean obviously I hope you're right. But we'll see how many vet contracts for Sullivan's favorite zero-event style hockey players we get between now and then to conveniently help kick the can down the road, again. Guys like Poulin and Puus have looked really, really good in prior camps and they get sent on their way with an "atta boy... learn how to PK and maybe we'll talk someday" for their efforts.

If you can't tell I'm firmly in "f*** these guys until they show me different" territory. Tired of looking like an asshole. Well... MORE of an asshole.

The realistic/pessimistic viewpoint there is totally fair. It will be interesting to see how Dubas approaches the off-season. I think Dubas built the roster Sullivan wanted. Seeing it burst into flames and miss the playoffs, I'm not sure Sullivan has "as much say" as last year. I think Dubas will take more control and build a roster with significantly more influence.

That said, Dubas could have got guys like Pono and Koivunen to help obtain other players so who knows what the camp rosters will actually look like.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The realistic/pessimistic viewpoint there is totally fair. It will be interesting to see how Dubas approaches the off-season. I think Dubas built the roster Sullivan wanted. Seeing it burst into flames and miss the playoffs, I'm not sure Sullivan has "as much say" as last year. I think Dubas will take more control and build a roster with significantly more influence.

That said, Dubas could have got guys like Pono and Koivunen to help obtain other players so who knows what the camp rosters will actually look like.

Dubas seems like a weenie until he proves that he's ACTUALLY in charge, here.

Hope to see that. Because letting the moron, burned-out, zero-ideas head coach run the team hasn't worked in a while.

 

[SEALBound]

Drew O'Connor has been a better player than what we've been running in our bottom six for three years. Yet this year is the first time he got regular NHL minutes.

Poulin has way more upside than a Harkins. Yet he's played 6 games.

Puustinen has been NHL ready for a year plus and barely got a spot out of camp.

I am comfortable asserting that DOC has earned his spot. He was sent back a forth a bit and when he was in WBS, he was a PPG impact player on a nightly basis. Poulin was not and was hurt several times this year when the opportunities to get called up were there. I don't think they brought up Gruden, Johnstone, claimed Phillips, etc because they thought they were better than Poulin.

But I mean, I get what you're saying and I'm not disagreeing.

Dubas seems like a weenie until he proves that he's ACTUALLY in charge, here.

Hope to see that. Because letting the moron, burned-out, zero-ideas head coach run the team hasn't worked in a while.

I would love to be saying "boy, I hope Mitch Marner, Jack Drury, and Martin Necas earn a spot in camp"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

...like I mean... did it almost seem like to anyone else that POHO and GM Kyle Dubas had to practically grovel to get Todd flippin' Reirden fired? Of COURSE that is total speculation and I have no actual idea. But WTF took like weeks to decide, there? That's a layup, bud. Hard not to believe there was SOME pushback on that topic.

I just have no confidence in any part of this organization. Show me I'm wrong.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I really, really would love to know what the front office thinks the issue with the team is. The team failed spectacularly with rosters that Sullivan did and didn't have a hand in crafting. Where do you even go with a team that has missed the playoffs for two years and has an ancient core with not much in futures.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I really, really would love to know what the front office thinks the issue with the team is. The team failed spectacularly with rosters that Sullivan did and didn't have a hand in crafting. Where do you even go with a team that has missed the playoffs for two years and has an ancient core with not much in futures.

Look to your user name and find your answer.

 

[Gurglesons]

I really, really would love to know what the front office thinks the issue with the team is. The team failed spectacularly with rosters that Sullivan did and didn't have a hand in crafting. Where do you even go with a team that has missed the playoffs for two years and has an ancient core with not much in futures.

"It's a tough league."

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

"It's a tough league."

"That's something to learn from"?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

"It's a tough league."

"We really believe that we just didn't get the puck luck this season. If you look at our underlying numbers we are a very strong team and we expect those numbers to start producing real results sooner rather than later."

Buncha f***in' imaginary numbers con men. Disco once referenced "goals that just didn't go in" after a playoff series loss and everyone correctly laughed at him. These assbags go on and on about it after every GAME.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I really, really would love to know what the front office thinks the issue with the team is. The team failed spectacularly with rosters that Sullivan did and didn't have a hand in crafting. Where do you even go with a team that has missed the playoffs for two years and has an ancient core with not much in futures.

Last year's crop of bottom six crap they brought in to appease Sullivan didn't get the job done, just like the previous season's crop of bottom six crap they brought in to appease Sullivan didn't. So their hope is next year's crop of bottom six crap that Sullivan loves will finally work out.

And when it doesn't, they'll just blame anyone but the real issue.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Just skimmed read 20 pages since I last read.

Woah.

Okay so we have basically 2 routes we can go pay assets or go for hail Mary's.

I am a big fan of Hail Mary's as we are trying to set us up for the future without giving up on Crosby and Company.

Kotkanemi for Graves
KK has 2 years left at a 1/3 buyout. If he does not work out buy him out who cares. We save money on Graves and he would work better for Caroliba and 4.5 for 5 years seems to be okay for them since he's below 30?

PLD - sure I am game roll the dice.

Nichuskin - hell yea I'd roll the dice. Malkin and him would have some fun that doesn't involve drugs.

Lindholm - free asset but we would have to cave into some sort of 7x7 or 7.5/ 7 deal.

Guentzel - I don't see him coming back he would have held off selling his house. Throws some shade at Dubas but Dubas made a solid decision. Everything I have read/heard it seems Guentzel thought he could wait till the end. Unsure if it was Guentzel or Agent but if you want to stay here you gotta discuss a trade not way till the deadline.

Stephenson - Golden Knights offered a contract I heard some whispers it wasn't high enough. It seems he is looking to cash in.
Not really interested

Ehlers - I'd really be interested in him but may cost a lot of assets

Necas - definitely interested may cost a lot of assets.


Gurgs has really convinced me on Kotkanemi and PLD

I was hesitant on PLD at first but I do agree with him we need to go after high risk plays that either back fire in our face or actually help us.

if they back fire who cares getting the safe options won't help us. If they succeed well Dubas looks like a genuis and we will all be here super happy (jk we are miserable people)

If we do trade Graves I'd be interested in a stay at home defensemen LD for Letang
UFA LD or LD we trade for from a team that can't afford to keep them.

UFA LD - Letang
Petts - Karlsson
POJ - St Ivany
7th defensemen
 
Depending on cap situation and who we bring I'd be down to trade Smith for a 4th and even retain a million if it fits the cap.

 

[Freeptop]

I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment about Malkin, but at the same time, I don't think people pointing out EP40's complete and utter disappearance in the playoffs are "xenophobic." This just happens to be a circumstance in which when you look at who did well and who did not, you notice that the players who did well were all gritty NA players, and the ones who did not were smaller Euros. I met with several clients from Vancouver recently and one from southern Alberta. When discussing the games, the number of times "Pettersson has GOT to get going" was said dominated the conversation. Mikheyev and Suter did themselves no favors. Hogs looked good though.

Complaining about specific European players is not xenophobic. Saying "Need more Saskatchewan, less Stockholm" however, very much is.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this UFA. Wouldn't be shocked if we go into the season with 4-5 million in cap open.

I'm really hoping that the Pens mostly don't dip into UFA beyond filling out the WB/S roster, to be honest.

It's hard to get younger through free agency, when most free agents are generally at least 27 years old.

Granted, I'm probably in a mode where I think the Pens should be, essentially, doing a rebuild without fully admitting they're doing one. As in, make improvements through trades for younger players, and hope that's enough to make the playoffs, but if not, sell more pieces at the deadline to get even younger.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I want to be more excited about Ludvig and St Ivany but it's hard not to watch them play then look at Graves and realize they are both better than he is at less than 1/5 the price. Ooof.