Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Gurglesons]

I was wrong, it wasn't as quite as high as #4. He had Sprong at #43 after the 2015 draft, had him #16 after the 2015-2016 season and then had him at #27 after the 2016-2017 season.

Top NHL prospects for the 2016-17 NHL season

abcnews.go.com

Sprong was higher than all of Rantanen, Provorov and Connor at the time, and even comments on the reddit post mentioned how insane that seemed.

I don't really see the issue with that. Sprong was very well thought of and had played in the NHL as a rookie.

 

[ikyan]

I don't want to re-hash the Koivunen argument all over again, I think his upside is a Jussi Jokinen caliber top-6 winger that's probably a fringe top-75 prospect in hockey, probably more in the 60-70 or so range. The Canes can afford to trade that for Guentzel because he is their 4th best prospect after Nikishin, Nadeau and Morrow, but I don't think it's fair whatsoever to argue Koivunen is a nothing piece just because he was only Carolina's 4th best prospect and try to simplify the Guentzel deal to "Bunting and a 2nd". I think he and Blake are very comparable prospects in terms of rankings and I would have been just as happy with Blake as I am with Koivunen.

But to the point of whether the Guentzel trade was a "failure" for the Canes, the argument I'm making is that they basically paid those assets to not change their season results at all. They could have either held onto those assets or traded them for more long-term help, especially considering Koivunen and a 2nd probably gets you more in the off-season than at the deadline. They paid a good chunk of change in terms of futures to lose in the same round that they would have lost in had they not made that trade. I don't see how you can argue that's anything but a failure.

Depends if they use the 8th year to get Guentzel at a reasonable AAV or sign him in the event they wouldn't have due to his experience at a reasonable AAV. In that case, it could still be a good trade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Depends if they use the 8th year to get Guentzel at a reasonable AAV or sign him in the event they wouldn't have due to his experience at a reasonable AAV. In that case, it could still be a good trade.

Yeah the deal is an obvious win for the Canes if they re-sign Guentzel. I'm working on the assumption that they won't and Guentzel will just go chase the money in free agency, though.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It wasn't just that they ended up not winning a cup, it's that they also ended up losing even earlier in the playoffs than they did last year. And that's with them getting a stupidly easy matchup in round 1.

At absolute best, I think you can argue that they didn't pay anything of note for him but it was still a failure because they didn't win. So that would be a "it didn't work out, but who cares?" type of thing. I just can't see rationalizing the Guentzel acquisition as anything better than that for them. Now if he re-signs, that obviously changes things.

They're playing the Presidents Trophy winner without Pesce, and lost 3 one goal games against the best goalie in the league. Context matters.

They had a chance and went for it without compromising their future at all. That's a trade you make 10 times out of 10.

 

[66-30-33]

I'm ok with getting rid of Smith/ Rakell, but why would DeBrusk is gonna sign here?

Has to sign somewhere.

 

[Gurglesons]

Has to sign somewhere.

Debrusk is a big yuck from me.

 

[Pens x]

I like how this board crapped on McCann for playing for so many teams, but it is okay that Bunting had played for 4 teams since 2019.

Weird

 

[KrisLetAngry]

So lets review shall we? Pittsburgh got KOIVUNEN, Bunting, Pono, Cruz (meh) and Pick 44th OA this year. What did the Canes get?

Carolina gets NOTHING!



Thank you Kyle

We had 2 options. Sign Guentz or trade. We traded and I think we did good.

I'd take him back if the price were right. Jake-Sid-Rust Rakell-Malkin-Bunting is a pretty nice top six.

Probably not happening though. He sold his house here, and allegedly wasn't enthused with how Dubas approached contract negotiations. On top of that, the Pens don't have the cap space.

Same but if what has been said is true. He's 'upset' with hoe Dubas handled it.

Which to be fair him and his agent strategy of let's wait for season to end couldn't fly by. Dubas made a trade and if we call this trade 4 2nds + Bunting I think he did good.

 

[Ryder71]

We had 2 options. Sign Guentz or trade. We traded and I think we did good.


Same but if what has been said is true. He's 'upset' with hoe Dubas handled it.

Which to be fair him and his agent strategy of let's wait for season to end couldn't fly by. Dubas made a trade and if we call this trade 4 2nds + Bunting I think he did good.

We did fantastic, the Canes got nothing, just assets going to us. Brindamour wears his teams out, he should be fired, they'll never take the next step.

I like how this board crapped on McCann for playing for so many teams, but it is okay that Bunting had played for 4 teams since 2019.

Weird

That's because McCann disappears for weeks at a time. Glad he's gone. Much prefer Buntings game. At least he's visible most nights.

 

[Pens x]

Maybe both teams lost the trade. The Pens came so close to making the playoffs - maybe if Jake hadnt been traded we would have.

 

[Ryder71]

They got out of cap heading into next year and gave up nothing that matters. It was a huge win for them in my eyes.

We gave up nothing that matters either,

It's because you're clueless on such matters. You're giving up on the prospects we got before you've even seen them play, that's just ridiculous. You can't even give them a year or so before you give up on them? lol

Jake fanboi are you?

Maybe both teams lost the trade. The Pens came so close to making the playoffs - maybe if Jake hadnt been traded we would have.

big deal, we wouldn't have won anything. Jake is gone, best thing 4 us.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno... I thought they played some of their best hockey of the whole year without Jake in the lineup.

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe both teams lost the trade.

No, we won! Pretty obvious to anyone with even a modicum of common sense.

 

[Gurglesons]

Trading Jake was the right decision.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Trading Jake was the right decision.

Yeah... I might quibble about returns or who won if anyone and by how much but they had to trade him IMO.

Something is better than nothing after all.

 

[Ulf5]

Has to sign somewhere.

I think Boston has a good amount of space to play with.
Swayman and Boqvist RFAs. 1 D and 2 Fs to sign, $20.9 million in space.

 

[Pancakes]

I dunno... I thought they played some of their best hockey of the whole year without Jake in the lineup.

I don't think they go on that heater at the end of the year with Jake.

But I also don't think they go on that terrible post deadline losing streak with him either. They quit for a week or so.

Idk either way right to trade him

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think they go on that heater at the end of the year with Jake.

But I also don't think they go on that terrible post deadline losing streak with him either. They quit for a week or so.

Idk either way right to trade him

Yeah that was extremely disheartening to see. Though not surprising.

I'm not sure what the players expected... they sucked ass all year lol

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think they go on that heater at the end of the year with Jake.

But I also don't think they go on that terrible post deadline losing streak with him either. They quit for a week or so.

Idk either way right to trade him

I mean the heater was more finally realizing Jarry sucks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

One of the biggest positives with trading Guentzel was because it made it blatant and evident that Crosby did not need Guentzel on his line to have an effective top line, which likely saves them about $5 million going forward compared to what they would have paid Guentzel for that role.

Something like Bertuzzi-Crosby-Rust wouldn't be any worse than Guentzel-Crosby-Rust, while it saves them a bunch of money. That doesn't mean you can put Crosby with like O'Connor and Puustinen and it still definitely be successful (honestly it probably still would be though), but the $9 million you'd pay for Crosby's LW to keep Guentzel would be like $5 million more than you need to spend on that role.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean the heater was more finally realizing Jarry sucks.

Maybe. Either way the team definitely quit for a week after Jake got traded. Then decided to start playing again.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Id like Guentzel back only if Rust was getting moved. I hope I never have to watch GCR again.

 

[SEALBound]

Debrusk is a big yuck from me.

You're right, Kotkaniemi is a MUCH better move...

 

[Rudy Russo]

You're right, Kotkaniemi is a MUCH better move...

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Because if dude wants to burn one down between periods and go on to score like 9 goals in 8 playoff games then welcome aboard, fella.

Sullsma is excited to get to work on Nichushkin’s game.

Because you know, it needs some major work, like EK’s did.