Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Empoleon8771]

I'm sure Edmonton would be interested in Jarry but idk how we make that work. I want no part of Skinner really.

The point of targeting Skinner is more about:

1. Getting out of Jarry's long-term deal.
2. Opening up the starter's role for Blomqvist long-term.

Skinner just gives you a short-term platoon goalie to presumably play with Nedjelkovic until Blomqvist is ready. If he plays well, he's cheap enough and has low enough term that you can probably flip him for a 3rd or so.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'd even be willing to retain a bit on Jarry to make Skinner for Jarry work, just because I think it's a deal that makes a lot of sense for both sides and would be willing to make it more palatable for Edmonton. I already talked about how I can see Edmonton justifying that deal, and I think that's even more true if Jarry's coming in at like $4.5 million ($850k-ish retained). But on the Penguins side, I think adding Skinner basically sets up the Penguins goalie situation as it should be: short term platoon goalies that can be moved once Blomqvist is ready.

Skinner has 2 more years at $2.6 million left, so you can plan on running with Nedjelkovic-Skinner next year and then either Nedjelkovic-Blomqvist or Skinner-Blomqvist in 2 years. I'm not quite ready to commit to something like Nedjelkovic-Blomqvist for next year, but the short terms left on Skinner and (presumably) Nedjelkovic give you the flexibility to do that if Blomqvist shows he's ready.

People will scrunch up their nose at an idea like this but it's perfectly acceptable.

I think @Jacob said it yesterday but the idea should be to run goaltenders in volume. Some combo of Larsson, Ned, Blom, and another viable option tossed in for good measure is fine. Like @HandshakeLine said... what's the realistic alternative? They gotta stop being scared shitless to try something new when it's beyond clear what they've BEEN trying isn't working, anyway.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that @Empoleon8771's suggestion is a good one.

 

[The Old Master]

A rotting fish stinks from the head, and birds of a feather, flock together.

a penny saved is a penny earned.
if they think their future goalie is already in the system, I could see them not wanting to spend anything right now, (if they know they are not going anywhere these next few years.)

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that @Empoleon8771's suggestion is a good one.

I mean honestly it's one of those trades that makes sense for both sides. I get on Jarry (and I think fairly enough) but he could work out fine for another team under the right circumstances if his workload is better managed. And Skinner is never gonna be any great shakes but he could suit the needs of a team like the Penguins well enough for now at like half the price and term.

 

[Pancakes]

The point of targeting Skinner is more about:

1. Getting out of Jarry's long-term deal.
2. Opening up the starter's role for Blomqvist long-term.

Skinner just gives you a short-term platoon goalie to presumably play with Nedjelkovic until Blomqvist is ready. If he plays well, he's cheap enough and has low enough term that you can probably flip him for a 3rd or so.

Skinner is signed for two more years though. That's not exactly short term enough for me given Blomqvist might already be ready.

The only reason I'd be interested in this is if we're moving Jarry and taking one of their shit goalies back then we better be getting a premium asset with them. Maybe worth it if you can somehow pry a first or Holloway in the deal. But idk if Edmonton is that desperate.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Skinner is signed for two more years though. That's not exactly short term.

The only reason I'd be interested in this is if we're moving Jarry and taking one of their shit goalies back then we better be getting a premium asset with them. Maybe worth it if you can somehow pry a first or Holloway in the deal. But idk if Edmonton is that desperate.

Jarry's contract is borderline horrendous, though. You just aren't going to get anything of value for him even with Cloutier Jr. coming the other direction.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The only reason I'd be interested in this is if we're moving Jarry and taking one of their shit goalies back then we better be getting a premium asset with them. Maybe worth it if you can somehow pry a first or Holloway in the deal. But idk if Edmonton is that desperate.

Even if it was just a 4th or another bottom 6 prospect like Pono, I'd explore it. I don't think Jarry is going to get any better here or turn it around, and he still has some sort of value. Another miserable season and he probably won't.

 

[Pancakes]

Jarry's contract is borderline horrendous, though. You just aren't going to get anything of value for him even with Cloutier Jr. coming the other direction.

I don't think it's borderline horrendous at all. There's a lot of times that would gladly pay his cap hit to get the league average goaltending he provides. Look at all the goalie contracts handed out last off season and how almost all of them played worse than Jarry did.

You're probably right that it might be hard to pry anything significant value-wise in a deal though. But maybe possible if we're agreeing to take on one of their worse goalies in exchange.

Even if it was just a 4th or another bottom 6 prospect like Pono, I'd explore it. I don't think Jarry is going to get any better here or turn it around, and he still has some sort of value. Another miserable season and he probably won't.

Well I definitely see value in offloading the contract, but if we're getting rid of Jarry and taking on like Skinner and a 4th or something....imo what's even the point? Not saying a whole lot of cap by doing that. Jarry is mediocre but I wouldn't call him bad. League average goaltending is still decent compared to the alternative you'd get from Skinner lol.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno. Jarry definitely has moments of brilliance... look at his shutouts this past year or really look at his work in general most years pre-New Years. All Star invites etc... for whatever that's worth. But he is injury-prone/often unavailable for whatever reason (usually when it most matters)... has never done anything of note in the playoffs outside of shit his crease in spectacular fashion (this isn't a huge concern of mine anymore as the Penguins won't be making the playoffs), just got beat out by a journeyman they signed to like near league minimum and seems to have a rather questionable attitude versus his actual on-ice accomplishments. On top of all that he's being paid like a what... top half league starter or thereabouts? With term and I believe trade clauses attached to his contract. And he sure doesn't look like a true starter to me.

That's a good chunk of money (in context of goaltending) and commitment for a whole lotta nothing IMO. In some ways... in the hypothetical we've constructed, here... the Oilers would be taking on even more risk than the Penguins.

 

[Pancakes]

I dunno. Jarry definitely has moments of brilliance... look at his shutouts this past year or really look at his work in general most years pre-New Years. All Star invites etc... for whatever that's worth. But he is injury-prone/often unavailable for whatever reason (usually when it most matters)... has never done anything of note in the playoffs outside of shit his crease in spectacular fashion (this isn't a huge concern of mine anymore as the Penguins won't be making the playoffs), just got beat out by a journeyman they signed to like near league minimum and seems to have a rather questionable attitude versus his actual on-ice accomplishments. On top of all that he's being paid like a what... top half league starter or thereabouts? With term and I believe trade clauses attached to his contract. And he sure doesn't look like a true starter to me.

That's a good chunk of money (in context of goaltending) and commitment for a whole lotta nothing IMO.

If we go by goalies with a minimum of 30 starts, Jarry slots in at 19th out of 46 this year in goals saved above expected. Not spectacular or elite, but pretty decent.

I dunno I mean don't get me wrong I don't like the guy. I hate his personality and how he never seems to take the blame when he has a bad game. But I don't think he's a negative asset.

I do hope that Blomqvist establishes himself as the starter soon and that we can dump Jarry. But at least right now I wouldn't just give him away. There has to be some sort of value gained there unless you really trust Blomqvist to be the backup already. If you're Dubas and you believe that Blomqvist can start 20-30 games next year and play well in them, then absolutely just punt Jarry wherever and re-sign Ned and platoon him with Blomqvist. But if you're not sure about that as Dubas, you better be careful about any Jarry moves.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If we go by goalies with a minimum of 30 starts, Jarry slots in at 19th out of 46 this year in goals saved above expected. Not spectacular or elite, but pretty decent.

I dunno I mean don't get me wrong I don't like the guy. I hate his personality and how he never seems to take the blame when he has a bad game. But I don't think he's a negative asset.

I do hope that Blomqvist establishes himself as the starter soon and that we can dump Jarry. But at least right now I wouldn't just give him away. There has to be some sort of value gained there unless you really trust Blomqvist to be the backup already. If you're Dubas and you believe that Blomqvist can start 20-30 games next year and play well in them, then absolutely just punt Jarry wherever and re-sign Ned and platoon him with Blomqvist. But if you're not sure about that as Dubas, you better be careful about any Jarry moves.

That's all fair but it's obvious you put a lot more stock into goaltending these days than I do haha... I'm just not even a little tiny bit concerned over losing a Tristan Jarry. You wanna Tristan Jarry, Dude? I can get you a Tristan Jarry... there are ways. Hell I can get you a Tristan Jarry by 3 this afternoon.

Turn and burn on these guys. And don't pay them... especially over years.

 

[Pancakes]

That's all fair but it's obvious you put a lot more stock into goaltending these days than I do haha... I'm just not even a little tiny bit concerned over losing a Tristan Jarry. You wanna Tristan Jarry, Dude? I can get you a Tristan Jarry... there are ways. Hell I can get you a Tristan Jarry by 3 this afternoon.

Turn and burn on these guys. And don't pay them... especially over years.

In general I agree that investing a lot into goaltending is a questionable thing to do. And I'm praying for the day that Blomqvist establishes himself as our next starter so that we can move on from Jarry.

Who knows, maybe Jarry will get dealt this off season because Dubas believes that much in Blomqvist. That'd be cool. It'd be nice to have something interesting happen this off season rather than Dubas signing a few pluggers for Sully and calling it a day.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

In general I agree that investing a lot into goaltending is a questionable thing to do. And I'm praying for the day that Blomqvist establishes himself as our next starter so that we can move on from Jarry.

Who knows, maybe Jarry will get dealt this off season because Dubas believes that much in Blomqvist. That'd be cool. It'd be nice to have something interesting happen this off season rather than Dubas signing a few pluggers for Sully and calling it a day.

I'm definitely not holding my breath lol

If there is one thing this team loves more than doubling down on stupid shit that hasn't worked for years it's tripling down on it. At least Reirden is gone? Took them a stunning amount of time to even do that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I don't think it's borderline horrendous at all. There's a lot of times that would gladly pay his cap hit to get the league average goaltending he provides. Look at all the goalie contracts handed out last off season and how almost all of them played worse than Jarry did.

You're probably right that it might be hard to pry anything significant value-wise in a deal though. But maybe possible if we're agreeing to take on one of their worse goalies in exchange.

Well I definitely see value in offloading the contract, but if we're getting rid of Jarry and taking on like Skinner and a 4th or something....imo what's even the point? Not saying a whole lot of cap by doing that. Jarry is mediocre but I wouldn't call him bad. League average goaltending is still decent compared to the alternative you'd get from Skinner lol.

Well, for starters, if the rumors are true about locker room tension with Jarry, you do it. Move that problem out now instead of letting it fester for months again. But mostly because you hope the goaltending change sparks a new change of scenery boost for whoever you acquire, which IIRC (but haven’t run the numbers on recently) happens a fair amount, especially if you’re bringing in guys from the West to the East.

I think the goal isn’t really about getting some new elite guy, but finding a goalie that meshes better with the team and will be a good mentor for Blomqvist.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And while we are talking about goal specifically here, I feel the same way about most of the other parts of the roster-- clearly what we have here isn't working, so why not take a chance on some guys that need changes of scenery for our guys that could also use a change of scenery or just be gone?

 

[Malkinstheman]

I think they'd PREFER to move on. I mean who wouldn't? But this team is so borderline lazy and utterly lacks any kind of sense of urgency or impetus that I could totally see them just shrugging and saying "welp whatever hopefully THIS year he doesn't fold like a cheap suit post New Year. At least he's got a GREAT personality!"

Yeah this team has a weird loyalty to random losers. I'm not that confident the team will try super hard to move Jarry tbh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah this team has a weird loyalty to random losers. I'm not that confident the team will try super hard to move Jarry tbh.

What? No they don't.

Ron Hextall would still be here if this team had a "weird loyalty to random losers".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Jansen Harkins just skated for like 40+ games in the lineup while doing literally nothing useful, Emp.

I think there is at least a little validity to the claim.

EDIT: The head coach is a permanent boil on this team's ass after nearly a decade of failure... Jeff Carter Cult... giving a dolt like Reirden rope for years... there are more examples from the past, too. I dunno. It's not egregious but this team definitely seems to get caught using it's feels more than it's brain sometimes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jansen Harkins just skated for like 40+ games in the lineup while doing literally nothing useful, Emp.

Sullivan playing bad players for half of a season doesn't mean "weird loyalty to random losers".

 

[Pancakes]

Sullivan playing bad players for half of a season doesn't mean "weird loyalty to random losers".

Sullivan has been playing bad players too much for like six seasons in a row now

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan playing bad players for half of a season doesn't mean "weird loyalty to random losers".

I don't agree that this is limited to a half a season and feel like the team in general has fallen into a cycle of comfortability, lack of self-evaluation and egotistical and arrogant behavior since the B2B but you are entitled to be right like you always are, of course.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sullivan has been playing bad players too much for like six seasons in a row now

I mean, it's not like Hextall or Dubas have really provided any particularly better options, though.

We already went over this discussion like a week ago about how their bad depth was all of players underperforming, bad coaching and bad GMing, so I don't want to rehash this argument. Still, I think the idea that this team shows a "weird loyalty to random losers" just doesn't make sense to me.

Although in this case, I interpreted "losers" to mean "guys proven to be losers" and not "bad players". I would interpret that as in "keeping Hextall" more than "playing Harkins". Maybe I just interpreted it differently, but playing a shitty player like Harkins for half a year didn't really fit what I thought it meant.

Bylsma's loyalty to Craig Adams is what I'd consider "weird loyalty to random losers". I don't think Sullivan has really done that (at least to that level) with anyone. Carter is probably the closest guy but that was only 2 years compared to what seemed like 10 for Adams.

 

[Ulf5]

Yeah this team has a weird loyalty to random losers. I'm not that confident the team will try super hard to move Jarry tbh.

From 3-17 to 4-17 Nedeljkovic had 15 games, Jarry had 4. Gives me some hope maybe Dubas at least tries.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

From 3-17 to 4-17 Nedeljkovic had 15 games, Jarry had 4. Gives me some hope maybe Dubas at least tries.

This is definitely true. I get on Dubas but I'm curious to see if he can be a little more proactive WRT underperforming players. The team's posture towards Ned versus Jarry also says to me that he might not have much choice or he'll possibly face some friction on his roster.