Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

See that's the thing too is the money hook is irrelevant to FSG and Dubas. They know as well as anybody that Sullivan would get hired if he got fired. There's no way they're worried about him getting fired and then having to pay him a bunch of money to not coach. He'd get scooped up and his current contract torn up so damned fast.

He's still here because they like him. This isn't a sunk cost fallacy like with Jack Johnson or the myriad of other bad contracts Pens gms have doled out and then clung to in the past two decades .

Yup. This is the hard reality.

They have another excuse now, too. Team USA which is a couple years away, yet. So that contract extension is absolutely going to be seen through to the end. And likely beyond.

 

[Pancakes]

Yup. This is the hard reality.

They have another excuse now, too. Team USA which is a couple years away, yet. So that contract extension is absolutely going to be seen through to the end. And likely beyond.

Yeah with the team USA thing I have to imagine he's in it for the long haul now.

If the Pens continue to struggle Dubas will just quietly rebuild while at least making a token effort to be competitive (for Sid's sake) and that will be that. They aren't gonna completely tear it down and ask the stars to go but I also don't foresee any more first round picks or top prospects being dealt in the near future unless the Pens go on some improbably President's Trophy type run and the only way something like that happens is if some of our prospects randomly explode into superstars and uhhh I don't see that happening.

So the next few years will be more of the same. We'll sneak in or just barely miss.

 

[SEALBound]

One thing that needs to be better from the GM's side is the willing to take away toys from Sullivan if things are getting stale. JR was great at that. Hextall stood by like a f***ing dope and watched Sullivan run McGinn-Carter-Kapanen into the ground on a nightly basis. Dubas made zero in-season adjustments last year sans claiming Phillips who was an absolute nothing-burger. I get that the cap was tight but you can waive guys or try to trade guys, even if it's trading for a perceivable "worse" player. By most accounts Hagelin wasn't "as good" as Perron but he fit MUCH better.

What comes with that is not spending to the absolute cap. I think this year, we can ice a team that doesn't need to be at the 87.7mil. It might be smarter for us to come in at the 84-85mil mark so that we have roster flexibility with players coming up and down or brining in someone new.

 

[Pens x]

Good god free agency needs to start so I can stop hearing Jake will re-sign with us.

 

[chethejet]

I can see Guentzel in Chicago with Bedard. Did the Pens play better once Bunting arrived and DOC got to bring a Kunitz type presence to Sid. Hell yes. Did trading Ruhwedel and bringing in ST Ivany with size and some needed physical presence help? Absolutely. Get the trend here. Bring in players and elevate players that bring size, bang and some needed juice to the mix. Keep doing that and get a fourth line of size and some grit as well. Bigger, stronger, younger with more physical play is what Dubas has to add. I like the Pens if they add Stephenson and then a couple of the prospects make some noise.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I can see Guentzel in Chicago with Bedard. Did the Pens play better once Bunting arrived and DOC got to bring a Kunitz type presence to Sid. Hell yes. Did trading Ruhwedel and bringing in ST Ivany with size and some needed physical presence help? Absolutely. Get the trend here. Bring in players and elevate players that bring size, bang and some needed juice to the mix. Keep doing that and get a fourth line of size and some grit as well. Bigger, stronger, younger with more physical play is what Dubas has to add. I like the Pens if they add Stephenson and then a couple of the prospects make some noise.

The problem is adding grit to the bottom six has been more or less a complete disaster under Sullivan. McGinn was a good player before Sullivan. Acciari was quite solid before last season. And there are many more. The players Sullivan should love do not play well.

We have to avoid adding a third-line center like Stephenson. We have centers ready to challenge for a spot. Adding a player on a multi-year deal kills that in a big way. I don't think it hurts the top-six wingers much if we add one there. Puustinen is probably a third-line winger, Rakell could be better served on the third line with kids, etc.

Lars Eller has only one year left on his deal, so if (worst-case scenario) he and Acciari are back that only stalls the young centers for one year. If you bring in Stephenson? Ouch.

And Stephenson does not work as a top-six winger, either. We need a guy who can snipe on the power play. Stephenson plays LW and C. If we did not have Bunting, then OK. Not now.

Puljujarvi did not suck on the fourth line late last season. That is a good start. We need to move away from the two offensive lines and two defensive lines approach. Sullivan won when we had more balance. Dubas has to realize this.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

The problem is adding grit to the bottom six has been more or less a complete disaster under Sullivan. McGinn was a good player before Sullivan. Acciari was quite solid before last season. And there are many more. The players Sullivan should love do not play well.

We have to avoid adding a third-line center like Stephenson. We have centers ready to challenge for a spot. Adding a player on a multi-year deal kills that in a big way. I don't think it hurts the top-six wingers much if we add one there. Puustinen is probably a third-line winger, Rakell could be better served on the third line with kids, etc.

Lars Eller has only one year left on his deal, so if (worst-case scenario) he and Acciari are back that only stalls the young centers for one year. If you bring in Stephenson? Ouch.

And Stephenson does not work as a top-six winger, either. We need a guy who can snipe on the power play. Stephenson plays LW and C. If we did not have Bunting, then OK. Not now.

Puljujarvi did not suck on the fourth line late last season. That is a good start. We need to move away from the two offensive lines and two defensive lines approach. Sullivan won when we had more balance. Dubas has to realize this.

I just wanted to touch on Stephenson I think he would be a top 6 LW that could play beside Crosby and fill in as a top 6 C well.

The problem with Stephenson is contract rumors and the age of our team. If we could trade Rakell or Rust and aim for someone else on RW I think Stephenson could be a March stylistically.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan places the order and Dubas just goes and picks it up.

Unless the narrative has suddenly switched yet again and last year Sullivan/Dubas WEREN'T lockstep like everyone was proclaiming from the rooftops. Sullivan tells Dubas what he wants for the roster and Kyle tucks his tail and fetches it for him like a good little boy. I'll believe otherwise when I see otherwise. Last year's roster was like... peak Mike Sullivan stuff. His fingerprints were all over it.

It's very much a negative commentary against my prognostication abilities that I actually believed they'd make the playoffs with that going on. "Shoulda known better" is an understatement.

 

[Gurglesons]

The problem is adding grit to the bottom six has been more or less a complete disaster under Sullivan. McGinn was a good player before Sullivan. Acciari was quite solid before last season. And there are many more. The players Sullivan should love do not play well.

We have to avoid adding a third-line center like Stephenson. We have centers ready to challenge for a spot. Adding a player on a multi-year deal kills that in a big way. I don't think it hurts the top-six wingers much if we add one there. Puustinen is probably a third-line winger, Rakell could be better served on the third line with kids, etc.

Lars Eller has only one year left on his deal, so if (worst-case scenario) he and Acciari are back that only stalls the young centers for one year. If you bring in Stephenson? Ouch.

And Stephenson does not work as a top-six winger, either. We need a guy who can snipe on the power play. Stephenson plays LW and C. If we did not have Bunting, then OK. Not now.

Puljujarvi did not suck on the fourth line late last season. That is a good start. We need to move away from the two offensive lines and two defensive lines approach. Sullivan won when we had more balance. Dubas has to realize this.

The problem is we are not adding grit. We are adding 5'10 guys who play feisty, but polite.

We need some more player types like Bunting in Trenin and Arvidsson who are willing to fight for every inch. Not guys like Acciari who "lead the league in hits".

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I just wanted to touch on Stephenson I think he would be a top 6 LW that could play beside Crosby and fill in as a top 6 C well.

The problem with Stephenson is contract rumors and the age of our team. If we could trade Rakell or Rust and aim for someone else on RW I think Stephenson could be a match stylistically.

I think you are right, but I prefer O'Connor with Crosby and a new sniper for Malkin.

Sullivan places the order and Dubas just goes and picks it up.

Unless the narrative has suddenly switched yet again and last year Sullivan/Dubas WEREN'T lockstep like everyone was proclaiming from the rooftops. Sullivan tells Dubas what he wants for the roster and Kyle tucks his tail and fetches it for him like a good little boy. I'll believe otherwise when I see otherwise. Last year's roster was like... peak Mike Sullivan stuff. His fingerprints were all over it.

It's very much a negative commentary against my prognostication abilities that I actually believed they'd make the playoffs with that going on. "Shoulda known better" is an understatement.

While I think you are right BWM, I don't think it was Mike Sullivan that told Kyle Dubas to trade away Chad Ruhwedel. I am fairly sure that Sullivan was completely against trading Guentzel (we know the core was), too. Did Mike Sullivan plead for the Jesse Puljujarvi signing?

Something changed last season. Late last season. That is the hope for me.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sullivan places the order and Dubas just goes and picks it up.

Unless the narrative has suddenly switched yet again and last year Sullivan/Dubas WEREN'T lockstep like everyone was proclaiming from the rooftops. Sullivan tells Dubas what he wants for the roster and Kyle tucks his tail and fetches it for him like a good little boy. I'll believe otherwise when I see otherwise. Last year's roster was like... peak Mike Sullivan stuff. His fingerprints were all over it.

It's very much a negative commentary against my prognostication abilities that I actually believed they'd make the playoffs with that going on. "Shoulda known better" is an understatement.

Ryan Graves is a lab grown Mike Sullivan defenseman. Big and polite who can move the puck, but sucks at everything that matters.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The problem is we are not adding grit. We are adding 5'10 guys who play feisty, but polite.

We need some more player types like Bunting in Trenin and Arvidsson who are willing to fight for every inch. Not guys like Acciari who "lead the league in hits".

Acciari and McGinn were not "polite" players when they played elsewhere.

 

[Gurglesons]

Acciari and McGinn were not "polite" players when they played elsewhere.

Yes they were. Acciari and McGinn are undersized, forecheckers who had skill. Sully specials that would always "look the other way".

They were never the type of players to get in the corners and slash a dude in the ankle just because.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think you are right, but I prefer O'Connor with Crosby and a new sniper for Malkin.

lol you stand a better chance of seeing the team permanently sticking Malkin on the third line and promoting Lars Eller to 2C. A much better chance. This team doesn't seem terribly interested in helping dude in his latter years. Mostly just blaming him when convenient.

While I think you are right BWM, I don't think it was Mike Sullivan that told Kyle Dubas to trade away Chad Ruhwedel. I am fairly sure that Sullivan was completely against trading Guentzel (we know the core was), too. Did Mike Sullivan plead for the Jesse Puljujarvi signing?

Something changed last season. Late last season. That is the hope for me.

I mean for the record I hope you're right. But Jake was a kinda "had to" situation but admittedly still one that gave me some confidence that Dubas has it in him to do what needs to be done. The rest is just barely trimming around the perimeter... I'm glad they took a cheap flier on Pulj and that Ruh is gone but those are super low impact moves. Dubas wasn't even allowed to fire the bozo AC who was heading up a historically awful powerplay and putting the likes of Bilbo Baggins (I seriously forget his name) and Lars Eller on the top unit until it was too late to matter.

 

[Gurglesons]

Kyle Dubas traded our 7th defenseman and he signed a guy who probably had no other options to a two year 800k deal.

Best GM in Penguins History according to PIT media if we use the criteria they do to annoit Mike Sullivan the best caoch in Penguins History.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yes they were. Acciari and McGinn are undersized, forecheckers who had skill. Sully specials that would always "look the other way".

They were never the type of players to get in the corners and slash a dude in the ankle just because.

That is not the Noel Acciari I remember watching under Craig Berube and Steve Ott in St. Louis. Not the Boston Acciari.

Anyway, I love physicality more than most but this team is not built that way. We need to play to our identity. And quite frankly, I am tired of adding more gritty players that suddenly become untradable after one season of Sullivan.

I am not convinced that the guys you mentioned will play their game under Sullivan. So I would prefer to focus on adding a skilled player to fix the power play.

Our PP needs to get back to a level where teams think twice before running guys.

 

[Gurglesons]

That is not the Noel Acciari I remember watching under Craig Berube and Steve Ott in St. Louis. Not the Boston Acciari.

Anyway, I love physicality more than most but this team is not built that way. We need to play to our identity. And quite frankly, I am tired of adding more gritty players that suddenly become untradable after one season of Sullivan.

I am not convinced that the guys you mentioned will play their game under Sullivan. So I would prefer to focus on adding a skilled player to fix the power play.

Our PP needs to get back to a level where teams think twice before running guys.

Trenin, Arvidsson, and Bunting play the game like a Patric Hornqvist / Jason Zucker.

We've seen that type be allowed to play their game here.

Trenin is probably closer to Acciari, but he is actually good defensively.

 

[SEALBound]

I wouldn't say Arvidsson plays like Patric Hornqvist at all...

 

[sauce66871]

Being genuinely curious, we all have our list of trades and free agents we wish we would see this offseason, but assuming Dubas/Sullivan are actually how we assume… what realistic players do you see being targeted?

Because I’m worried our new depth is going to consist of the Tyler Motte, Alex Barre-Boulet, and Nicolas Aube-Kubel types.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Being genuinely curious, we all have our list of trades and free agents we wish we would see this offseason, but assuming Dubas/Sullivan are actually how we assume… what realistic players do you see being targeted?

Because I’m worried our new depth is going to consist of the Tyler Motte, Alex Barre-Boulet, and Nicolas Aube-Kubel types.

 

[Maninthebox87]

Don’t watch too many games of other teams lately but are there any “speed guys” that are available in free agency? I did a quick peek and no one immediately jumped out at me but I’m talking someone who is like a Pascal Dupuis who can play a top 9 role… like be able to play with Sid or the third line when needed and be able to PK.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Kyle Dubas traded our 7th defenseman and he signed a guy who probably had no other options to a two year 800k deal.

Best GM in Penguins History according to PIT media if we use the criteria they do to annoit Mike Sullivan the best caoch in Penguins History.

I'll judge him on the quality of his rebuild. That's what he's here for. No GM was gonna win Cups with this cap situation and roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn't say Arvidsson plays like Patric Hornqvist at all...

Must never have seen him play. They literally moved Hornqvist because they had him lol.

I'll judge him on the quality of his rebuild. That's what he's here for. No GM was gonna win Cups with this cap situation and roster.

More cope. I highly doubt Dubas is here for the entirety of a rebuild unless Crosby and Malkin are both out of here after 25/26

 

[Coastal Kev]

Good god free agency needs to start so I can stop hearing Jake will re-sign with us.

He already sold his house........... Jake put the Butt back in Hurt. Good riddance.

 

[SEALBound]

Must never have seen him play. They literally moved Hornqvist because they had him lol.

...he was in Sweden when we made that trade. Then he spent the majority of following season in the AHL...

But okay teach.