Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[KrisLetAngry]

Jake is not coming back. He sold his house to Rust already and it’s reported he was not happy with how contract talks proceeded. Given how Dubas refused to have contract talks during the season I don’t blame him.

We also do not have the assets to out bid anyone for Marner or Tkachuk. You should forget about both those names.

It’s more likely we’ll overpay on some mid tier tweener who’s contract will look awful in 1-2 years but we’ll be stuck with it for 5-6.

We also heard that Guentzel didn’t want to negotiate during the season.

Guentzel is gone, trading him was the right decision and they shouldn’t bring him back.

Everything I saw was about Guentzel deciding to wait till after the season.

I think there was talks just before the deadline
Where Dubas said here's my offer if you want to stay or we are trading you.

Guentzel said no and now he is going to free agency to collect more money then Dubas probably offerred.

I don't think anyone is villifying either of them.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Y'all better like the team that we had the last couple of weeks of last season. I don't see any major adds coming. This is a sinking ship that doesn't really have the lifeboats to save itself now. It does have the capacity to make blundering huge mistakes in trying to trade future picks for magic beans in an effort to try and buoy a sinking ship. Just sit back and enjoy the sinking....

What we should be doing is selling our best movable asset off this offseason in EK (it's not happening but it should)

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Is Guentzel pissed off at the Penguins? I am not so sure about that. Negotiations with him were "weird", I will give you that. Dubas seemed ready to move on almost from the get-go. Maybe Guentzel is just not his (Dubas) type of player. Maybe.

However, I don't think the situation with Guentzel is anywhere near as acrimonious as the Malkin situation was a few years ago. And ultimately, Geno stayed put.

Now, Guentzel is NOT our player anymore. So I don't think it is likely that he is signed as a UFA on July 1. However, I would not rule it out. We definitely need a top-six winger to replace him. A younger player via trade is perhaps the way to go, but Guentzel at least produces under this coach. And by all accounts, he was loved in the room.

I think a right-shooting top-six winger is a better fit for us at this time, mainly for the Malkin-Bunting line and also for the top PP unit.

But I am not closing the door on Guentzel.

 

[The Old Master]

Is Guentzel pissed off at the Penguins? I am not so sure about that. Negotiations with him were "weird", I will give you that. Dubas seemed ready to move on almost from the get-go. Maybe Guentzel is just not his (Dubas) type of player. Maybe.

However, I don't think the situation with Guentzel is anywhere near as acrimonious as the Malkin situation was a few years ago. And ultimately, Geno stayed put.

Now, Guentzel is NOT our player anymore. So I don't think it is likely that he is signed as a UFA on July 1. However, I would not rule it out. We definitely need a top-six winger to replace him. A younger player via trade is perhaps the way to go, but Guentzel at least produces under this coach. And by all accounts, he was loved in the room.

I think a right-shooting top-six winger is a better fit for us at this time, mainly for the Malkin-Bunting line and also for the top PP unit.

But I am not closing the door on Guentzel.

we are in no position to close the door on anyone
well, except for a certain coach.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Y'all better like the team that we had the last couple of weeks of last season. This is a sinking ship that doesn't really have the lifeboats to save itself now. It does have the capacity to make blundering huge mistakes in trying to trade future picks for magic beans in an effort to try and buoy a sinking ship. Just sit back and enjoy the sinking....

But they were not "sinking" in the last couple of weeks of last season. They just ran out of time. The new-look Penguins looked pretty good. They made a very late but very good run to the playoffs and fell just short. I believe if they beat Boston on that Saturday night late in the season, they would have gotten in. Oh well.

AND, that was without a power play that worked at all and with Todd Reirden coaching the defense and PP.

There is more hope than you suggest, imo.

 

[chethejet]

Please. Dubas didn't want to sign him for that term and risk him playing without Sid. Sid will sign a new deal but it is never a guarantee and then Dubas has a 9 to 10 million winger with who? Plus I like the DOC, Bunting LW for Sid and Geno anyway. Go get Stephenson and Pens are a better bigger more balanced roster with St Ivany RD and Acciari and a banger 4th line LW.

 

[molon labe]

Yep, probably TT from Carolina…we need to stop looking for those middle six players who are late 20s early 30s…we should be trying to take chances on young players


Why in hell would Marner want to come here? Not contenders and will only be in a full rebuild after the next few years

He might not. But it's an option worth exploring with his connection to Sid. If Sid is to sign another 3 years (putting him at + 4 years this Summer) - Marner could ride that out and still only be 31ish when/if Sid retires.

Does his recently play show that he only wants contention? I mean, he could absolutely force his way to a number of post-season locks like Vegas, Colorado, Florida, or Tampa. Equally likely he forces his way to a club where he knows/likes the GM and the head of the team (Sid).

Nobody knows the most likely of the scenarios. He'd also be prepped to take over the team at that point as well in his early 30s and with more of a say on who we sign/bring in at that point. Go to another club to continue to side car for the duration of your contract?

 

[molon labe]

But they were not "sinking" in the last couple of weeks of last season. They just ran out of time. The new-look Penguins looked pretty good. They made a very late but very good run to the playoffs and fell just short. I believe if they beat Boston on that Saturday night late in the season, they would have gotten in. Oh well.

AND, that was without a power play that worked at all and with Todd Reirden coaching the defense and PP.

There is more hope than you suggest, imo.

Basing that last couple weeks is the same as beating Colorado in a prime time game.

I challenge the hope statements with who, exactly, is coming OFF of their playoff spot next year in order to let the Penguins in? A couple weeks of hockey shows desperation in an OLD hockey team that coasted for too long. Unironically, the rest of the league put in the sweat early and may have coasted in the end. Until we can compete December onward we're not a playoff team. This team couldn't do that and can't do that with it's current roster + captain Sully.

There's semantics that we play - then there's reality. This year: Rangers, Hurricans, Panthers, Bruins, Leafs, Islanders, Lightning were in with everyone else fighting for seed 8. What guarantee does this club have for that 8th seed? Are you arguing one or more of this years' teams get worse enough to fall out? What makes this club better than an up and coming Devils or Sabres club? Red Wings?

The days of us just assuming we're in contention are just outright dead. Moves need to be made but we continue thinking those moves are tweaks and not overhauls.

 

[Gurglesons]

Absolutely no bias in this statement whatsoever

No one is “vilifying Jake” by saying there were rumors that he didn’t want to extend until the off-season. It’s a business and both sides are looking out for what’s best for their side.

Calling Dubas a “sleezy dumbass” for not re-signing Guentzel is no different than people trying to “vilify Guentzel” for not re-signing with the Penguins. It’s a business and the two sides couldn’t come to an agreement that made sense

I mean, Dubas isn't sleazy, but I'm cool with us calling him a dumbass given his moves so far in Pittsburgh.

It's wild that a guy who is now 5+ years into being a GM has done as little as Dubas has done from a success point of view and is still given credit while a GM like Ken Holland who had a bad 5 years but has been to like 8 SCFs is buried by media and fans.

 

[eXile3]

Absolutely no bias in this statement whatsoever

No one is “vilifying Jake” by saying there were rumors that he didn’t want to extend until the off-season. It’s a business and both sides are looking out for what’s best for their side.

Calling Dubas a “sleezy dumbass” for not re-signing Guentzel is no different than people trying to “vilify Guentzel” for not re-signing with the Penguins. It’s a business and the two sides couldn’t come to an agreement that made sense

I’m not trying to be unbiased. I think Dubas is a tird and will until he convinces other wise.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Y'all better like the team that we had the last couple of weeks of last season. I don't see any major adds coming. This is a sinking ship that doesn't really have the lifeboats to save itself now. It does have the capacity to make blundering huge mistakes in trying to trade future picks for magic beans in an effort to try and buoy a sinking ship. Just sit back and enjoy the sinking....

What we should be doing is selling our best movable asset off this offseason in EK (it's not happening but it should)

Yea I do not expect much. With who is available. Dubas will have to be creative which we saw with EK but with how it went he may go conservative.

I think the biggest buy will be a top 4 LD to join the team. It's a top 4 LD or a top 6 winger. Besides that it's chairs moving around.

Kind of what happens when we sign multiple players with NMC and NTC

 

[SEALBound]

Everything I saw was about Guentzel deciding to wait till after the season.

I think there was talks just before the deadline
Where Dubas said here's my offer if you want to stay or we are trading you.

Guentzel said no and now he is going to free agency to collect more money then Dubas probably offerred.

I don't think anyone is villifying either of them.

Manufactured outrage. Everything I also saw says he wanted to wait until the off-season. I think one report of that was even from his agent.

Dubas even went to his house and spoke with him prior to trading him. So the other idea of Jake being "shocked" is BS as well.

If there are "hard feelings" I could see it stemming from "Hey, I liked playing in Pittsburgh, all my friends are here, we like it here, I play well with Sid, we're wanting to push for a playoff spot...why are you trading me?" Maybe no different than Huberdeau being upset he got sent to Calgary. But I 100% do not buy this "oh, we're mad because Dubas didn't want to talk extensions in season...or conveniently right at the TDL".

Again, manufactured outrage by people that have an Anti-Dubas agenda

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

The whole Dubas/Guentzel saga is clear, and both did what was in their best interests. Guentzel wanted to deal, but only if the amount was right.

Dubas didn't want to deal until he was sure we were making the playoffs (ie. is the season dead?). Otherwise his biggest trade chip gets spent.

Dubas moved 10% towards Guentzel by making an offer. Guentzel moved 10% by not saying he wanted to test out free agency.

That was all there was to it!

Come July 1st....
I doubt Dubas has any animosity, and should try to get Guentzel.
If Guentzel is indeed pissed, then that's on him, and he'll not even consider coming back, but I would be surprised if that is true.

My gut feel?
Carolina has tried resigning Guentzel, but I bet it wasn't enough. He's going to UFA and going to the highest bidder which will likely NOT be the Penguins.

7 years of Guentzel @$9M doesn't really fit into where we are going. He would be better off at Tampa or New York.

 

[SEALBound]

The whole Dubas/Guentzel saga is clear, and both did what was in their best interests. Guentzel wanted to deal, but only if the amount was right.

Dubas didn't want to deal until he was sure we were making the playoffs (ie. is the season dead?). Otherwise his biggest trade chip gets spent.

Dubas moved 10% towards Guentzel by making an offer. Guentzel moved 10% by not saying he wanted to test out free agency.

That was all there was to it!

Come July 1st....
I doubt Dubas has any animosity, and should try to get Guentzel.
If Guentzel is indeed pissed, then that's on him, and he'll not even consider coming back, but I would be surprised if that is true.

My gut feel?
Carolina has tried resigning Guentzel, but I bet it wasn't enough. He's going to UFA and going to the highest bidder which will likely NOT be the Penguins.

7 years of Guentzel @$9M doesn't really fit into where we are going. He would be better off at Tampa or New York.

To be perfectly honest...I think he goes to Nashville, and Trotz gives him something very close to Forsberg. Either $8.75 or $9mil even over 7 years. They have plenty of space and a good crop of young players, and they could really use another high-end LW talent.

Players seem to love Nashville as a city and I think it would really appeal to Jake and his wife.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

To be perfectly honest...I think he goes to Nashville, and Trotz gives him something very close to Forsberg. Either $8.75 or $9mil even over 7 years. They have plenty of space and a good crop of young players, and they could really use another high-end LW talent.

Players seem to love Nashville as a city and I think it would really appeal to Jake and his wife.

Nashville has a lot of cap space. I definitely can see them taking swings at the top UFAs

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a fair amount of doubts about Dubas after last season but frankly having the balls to trade Jake was one of the few things he did that I was happy with. My only regret is that this team's lineup has been so terribly managed and ruled by bias and favoritism for years so that we never got to fully take advantage of some of the configurations we could have while Jake WAS a Penguin. Well that and I wish the team could have gotten better quality and less quantity out of the trade but it is what it is.

Crosby is more than fine without him and that was the major fear. Jake is a terrific complimentary player but honestly it's always been Sid driving the play, there. If Jake came back it would simply be the same old same old anyway... except now at like ~9M instead of ~6M.

 

[Darren McCord]

To be perfectly honest...I think he goes to Nashville, and Trotz gives him something very close to Forsberg. Either $8.75 or $9mil even over 7 years. They have plenty of space and a good crop of young players, and they could really use another high-end LW talent.

Players seem to love Nashville as a city and I think it would really appeal to Jake and his wife.

I think buffalo makes a lot of sense. They are a playoff team with Jake

 

[SEALBound]

I think buffalo makes a lot of sense. They are a playoff team with Jake

I can't imagine they wouldn't look into him come July 1st if he's a FA.

Option for sure, I'm just not convinced he signs there if given multiple choices.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

To be perfectly honest...I think he goes to Nashville, and Trotz gives him something very close to Forsberg. Either $8.75 or $9mil even over 7 years. They have plenty of space and a good crop of young players, and they could really use another high-end LW talent.

Players seem to love Nashville as a city and I think it would really appeal to Jake and his wife.

Could work, but then he plays on the 2nd line. I saw headlines about rumor out there about Chicago. May make sense as Jake has lived with Crosby, which means he can play up to Bedard.

I have a fair amount of doubts about Dubas after last season but frankly having the balls to trade Jake was one of the few things he did that I was happy with. My only regret is that this team's lineup has been so terribly managed and ruled by bias and favoritism for years so that we never got to fully take advantage of some of the configurations we could have while Jake WAS a Penguin. Well that and I wish the team could have gotten better quality and less quantity out of the trade but it is what it is.

Crosby is more than fine without him and that was the major fear. Jake is a terrific complimentary player but honestly it's always been Sid driving the play, there. If Jake came back it would simply be the same old same old anyway... except now at like ~9M instead of ~6M.

Another dig on Sully?

I really wish we had traded more away during the TD, but as it's been said before, the market wasn't there.

As for Dubas...
He seems perfectly capable of signing the 30+ crowd. He's capable of restocking WBS with the 23- spare parts crowd. What we don't know is if he's capable of making deals for mid-level 23-27 old crowd. Though he did discover pretty decent 24 year old Bunting languishing in the Arizona system.

As for Crosby, maybe he's calmed down...that winning stretch probably helped.

I wouldn't mind if he waited a bit to re-sign an extension, so that it sends a message to Dubas that he needs to seriously try and get premier talent.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Another dig on Sully?

I really wish we had traded more away during the TD, but as it's been said before, the market wasn't there.

As for Dubas...
He seems perfectly capable of signing the 30+ crowd. He's capable of restocking WBS with the 23- spare parts crowd. What we don't know is if he's capable of making deals for mid-level 23-27 old crowd. Though he did discover pretty decent 24 year old Bunting languishing in the Arizona system.

As for Crosby, maybe he's calmed down...that winning stretch probably helped.

I wouldn't mind if he waited a bit to re-sign an extension, so that it sends a message to Dubas that he needs to seriously try and get premier talent.

Always. He's this team's biggest hurdle.

Which... you know... is a big reason I eye Dubas with a ton of suspicion. He's a fan so he can't be THAT smart.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Basing that last couple weeks is the same as beating Colorado in a prime time game.

I challenge the hope statements with who, exactly, is coming OFF of their playoff spot next year in order to let the Penguins in? A couple weeks of hockey shows desperation in an OLD hockey team that coasted for too long. Unironically, the rest of the league put in the sweat early and may have coasted in the end. Until we can compete December onward we're not a playoff team. This team couldn't do that and can't do that with it's current roster + captain Sully.

There's semantics that we play - then there's reality. This year: Rangers, Hurricanes, Panthers, Bruins, Leafs, Islanders, Lightning were in with everyone else fighting for seed 8. What guarantee does this club have for that 8th seed? Are you arguing one or more of this years' teams get worse enough to fall out? What makes this club better than an up and coming Devils or Sabres club? Red Wings?

The days of us just assuming we're in contention are just outright dead. Moves need to be made but we continue thinking those moves are tweaks and not overhauls.

Lots to unpack here. Firstly, I don't know who is NOT making the playoffs next season but we will have a much clearer picture on July 2.

Were we beating teams that were coasting late last season? Nobody really coasts late in any regular season. Teams that are not ready to play down the stretch get blown up. Playoff-level intensity settles in, so I am not buying that.

Sullivan is the coach. Nobody except the core players and ownership want this. Even the man himself flirted with New Jersey but was told he is unavailable. It is what it is. We started to win games despite him still being past his expiry date. That bodes well.

I never assume we are in contention, and I am not doing it now. What I personally saw late last season was encouraging. That is all. There is obviously more work to be done.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Always. He's this team's biggest hurdle.

Which... you know... is a big reason I eye Dubas with a ton of suspicion. He's a fan so he can't be THAT smart.

I have a hard time being convinced that Sullivan is and has been his (Dubas) guy all along. I much more easily believe that when GM and President of hockey ops candidates were interviewing last summer, they were told that the coach was entrenched and there were no changes planned there ad infinitum.

It is a theory, but one I can certainly get behind much more than Dubas loving Sullivan.

 

[Pancakes]

Always. He's this team's biggest hurdle.

Which... you know... is a big reason I eye Dubas with a ton of suspicion. He's a fan so he can't be THAT smart.

On the other hand Sullivan is universally well regarded around the league and would be instantly scooped up if he got fired. The Rangers wanted him. The Devils wanted him. He'd get a job real fast.

That is crazy given his recent results of course.

But my point is, we can knock Dubas for liking Sullivan if we want (and we should) but we should also recognize that any other GM in Dubas' place would have the same boner for Sully that the league does, because that's how they ALL think.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a hard time being convinced that Sullivan is and has been his (Dubas) guy all along. I much more easily believe that when GM and President of hockey ops candidates were interviewing last summer, they were told that the coach was entrenched and there were no changes planned there ad infinitum.

It is a theory, but one I can certainly get behind much more than Dubas loving Sullivan.

Why would that be hard to believe? I get that GMs trade a ton in lip service and flat-out lies but Dubas practically gushes about the guy. He's like half a peg away from laying on the ground and writing in his diary about him while he pulls petals off a daisy. He just got done assuring him that he had nothing to do with last year's failures and I'm assuming will give him the same carte blanche he did last year re: roster construction. EDIT: Plus like @Pancakes said... Sullivan is considered top tier league-wide (another piece of evidence that proves how moronic this league is).

I had hoped beyond hope that with Dubas came the possibly of a hard reset. But it's starting to seem much more likely that Dubas took the job in part because he sees Mike Sullivan as a huge asset he desired to work with.

On the other hand Sullivan is universally well regarded around the league and would be instantly scooped up if he got fired. The Rangers wanted him. The Devils wanted him. He'd get a job real fast.

Great. All the better reason to shitcan him... they'll be off the money-hook.

 

[Pancakes]

Great. All the better reason to shitcan him... they'll be off the money-hook.

See that's the thing too is the money hook is irrelevant to FSG and Dubas. They know as well as anybody that Sullivan would get hired if he got fired. There's no way they're worried about him getting fired and then having to pay him a bunch of money to not coach. He'd get scooped up and his current contract torn up so damned fast.

He's still here because they like him. This isn't a sunk cost fallacy like with Jack Johnson or the myriad of other bad contracts Pens gms have doled out and then clung to in the past two decades .