Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Zbynek]

Orpik always pissed me off too because he'd rip the team for not playing well but would never take accountability for his own shit play.

Him and Jarry would get along famously

Orpik and Jarry are great comparisons.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Orpik and Jarry are great comparisons.

I mean, theoretically yeah, but Orpik at his peak was never a deserved all-star.

 

[Andy99]

Mark Madden: Penguins missed opportunity to sign Rangers catalyst Vincent Trocheck

If Pittsburgh Penguins fans want reminded of a franchise-altering mistake made by management, just turn on the NHL’s Eastern Conference Final. Forecheck, backcheck, Trocheck. The Penguins had a chance to sign center Vincent Trocheck as a free agent in 2022. The Penguins chose nostalgia instead...

triblive.com

Lol…he’s still beating his anti-Malkin drum 17 years later…

 

[MayorofWBS]

Forwards-

Rakell +++ for Necas. Sign him to 8x7.5M AAV

Debrusk 6x6M AAV

Doubt Carolina is going to take a giant **** in its own backyard and trade some worthwhile to a Divisional foe.

Debrusk seems like a just changing the deck chairs move - and maybe even worse another 3rd wheel winger that we are paying even more money too than our current collection ho hum wingers

 

[Empoleon8771]

Madden calling signing Malkin over Trocheck a "franchise altering mistake" is moronically stupid, even though I agree that Trocheck is better than Malkin at this point.

Can we as a whole agree to just ignore the idiot Pittsburgh media members and the nonsense they post?

 

[SEALBound]

Mark Madden: Penguins missed opportunity to sign Rangers catalyst Vincent Trocheck

If Pittsburgh Penguins fans want reminded of a franchise-altering mistake made by management, just turn on the NHL’s Eastern Conference Final. Forecheck, backcheck, Trocheck. The Penguins had a chance to sign center Vincent Trocheck as a free agent in 2022. The Penguins chose nostalgia instead...

triblive.com

Lol…he’s still beating his anti-Malkin drum 17 years later…

It wasn't Malkin or Trocheck. Trocheck would still have wanted to come here to begin with. Hextall prioritized Rust, Rakell, and Malkin. There was room to resign Malkin and nab Trocheck. Hextall could have easily waited on Rust and Rakell with offers ready and still went after Trocheck right as FA began.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It wasn't Malkin or Trocheck. Trocheck would still have wanted to come here to begin with. Hextall prioritized Rust, Rakell, and Malkin. There was room to resign Malkin and nab Trocheck. Hextall could have easily waited on Rust and Rakell with offers ready and still went after Trocheck right as FA began.

Yeah the "franchise altering mistake" in this case was signing Rakell over Trocheck. I understand why Hextall did it, but they'd have an amazing 2nd line right now with Bunting-Malkin-Trocheck or Bunting-Trocheck-Malkin, however they'd want to set it up.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Madden calling signing Malkin over Trocheck a "franchise altering mistake" is moronically stupid, even though I agree that Trocheck is better than Malkin at this point.

Can we as a whole agree to just ignore the idiot Pittsburgh media members and the nonsense they post?

We could have had both.

Also Malkin at 6 million is great. Maybe his last year 9.5 was too much for the cap climate but we won 2 cups with that contract you take the ugly part for 1 year.

 

[Pancakes]

Madden calling signing Malkin over Trocheck a "franchise altering mistake" is moronically stupid, even though I agree that Trocheck is better than Malkin at this point.

Can we as a whole agree to just ignore the idiot Pittsburgh media members and the nonsense they post?

Honestly anyone who wishes we signed Trocheck instead of Geno can f*** right off.

Geno deserved the contract he got. Guy won three fing cups for this franchise.

It's not his fault we've failed recently anyways. That blame lies with Dubas, Hextall, Jr, and Sullivan. Genos play has been adequate for a 2c. He is not nor ever has been the issue.

Trocheck is a rat who plays dirty on the ice. f*** him. Don't care that he's from Pittsburgh. He belongs on the Rangers. He's their kinda scum lol.

 

[Andy99]

It wasn't Malkin or Trocheck. Trocheck would still have wanted to come here to begin with. Hextall prioritized Rust, Rakell, and Malkin. There was room to resign Malkin and nab Trocheck. Hextall could have easily waited on Rust and Rakell with offers ready and still went after Trocheck right as FA began.

According to Trocheck or his agent, the Pens wanted to sign him but they wanted him at wing or 3C and he wanted to go somewhere where he could be a top six center…that came out shortly after his signing in NY

 

[HandshakeLine]

Man, who decides where players play? Must be Geno.

Anyhow, I wonder if Mark Madden can tell us how Sullivan's ass tastes like? He's probably got a very discerning palate, if his bloodwork is any indication.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trocheck is a rat who plays dirty on the ice. f*** him. Don't care that he's from Pittsburgh. He belongs on the Rangers. He's their kinda scum lol.

Nah this is 100% wrong, I'd absolutely kill to have Trocheck on this team. That's the kind of rat you hate on other teams but want on your team.

According to Trocheck or his agent, the Pens wanted to sign him but they wanted him at wing or 3C and he wanted to go somewhere where he could be a top six center…that came out shortly after his signing in NY

Considering there is talk of moving Malkin to RW just 2 years later, I don't know why they couldn't have sold Trocheck on being 2C and moving Malkin to RW.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Considering there is talks of moving Malkin to RW just 2 years later, I don't know why they couldn't have sold Trocheck on being 2C and moving Malkin to RW.

Because that would take coaching.

Given how little Malkin complains about his assignments or being called out by the coach publicly, I highly doubt he's insisting that he play 2C. I think it's just inertia and a coach that doesn't coach.

 

[Zbynek]

F*** Trocheck.

 

[SEALBound]

According to Trocheck or his agent, the Pens wanted to sign him but they wanted him at wing or 3C and he wanted to go somewhere where he could be a top six center…that came out shortly after his signing in NY

Fair from his POV. A bit of a thought experiment but what if the discussion was "we want you as 2C", would that have changed anything for him? Who knows.

Unfortunately, it's not the first time having Sid and Geno as 1-2C has complicated our roster decisions. Staal wanted to be 2C, Bonino wanted to be a 2C, Brassard had no choice but was brought in to be 3C which didn't really work out, Trocheck wanted to be 2C. Bridging the 3C to 2C gap is one of the hardest things to do in hockey. It's hard to find a good "long-term" 3C. When they do well, they want to 2C and will go somewhere to do it.

I agree with Emp that "Malkin over Trocheck is a franchise-altering mistake" isn't really all that good of an argument when Hextall signed Rust and Rakell beforehand. Perhaps the "franchise-altering mistake" could be better suggested as "keeping Malkin at 2C" instead of attempting to transition him to wing. That means you need the right center and system which a good coach and GM could provide but we had Hextall and Sullivan, so there's that.

We likely keep Rust anyway so we could have been looking at:

Jake-Sid-Rust
Zucker-Trocheck-Malkin

You don't retain Rakell and you don't qualify Kapanen (or trade him). More than enough cap space to have run that. Now that said, I would say that I think Malkin has "earned" the benefit of the doubt and can claim whatever position he wants except 1C. But that top 6 is infinitely better than the one we ran and what we have now.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because that would take coaching.

Given how little Malkin complains about his assignments or being called out by the coach publicly, I highly doubt he's insisting that he play 2C. I think it's just inertia and a coach that doesn't coach.

I think that's more Hextall than Sullivan. Hextall locked up Rust and Rakell before free agency even started, which explains why Hextall was moronically trying to convince Trocheck to sign to be a 3C.

Unless I'm misremembering, they didn't even have a top-6 spot left after signing Malkin, I think he was the last one to be under contract. Hextall should have waited until UFA started to come to an agreement with Rakell, because at that point I think you could have possibly sold Trocheck on "RW for Malkin until you take over for him at 2C".

We likely keep Rust anyway so we could have been looking at:

Jake-Sid-Rust
Zucker-Trocheck-Malkin

You don't retain Rakell and you don't qualify Kapanen (or trade him). More than enough cap space to have run that. Now that said, I would say that I think Malkin has "earned" the benefit of the doubt and can claim whatever position he wants except 1C. But that top 6 is infinitely better than the one we ran and what we have now.

This is exactly what they should have done, with maybe having Trocheck at RW to start but ultimately taking over for Malkin. They couldn't do that because Hextall re-signed Rakell like a week before free agency started IIRC.

 

[SEALBound]

I think that's more Hextall than Sullivan. Hextall locked up Rust and Rakell before free agency even started, which explains why Hextall was moronically trying to convince Trocheck to sign to be a 3C.

Unless I'm misremembering, they didn't even have a top-6 spot left after signing Malkin, I think he was the last one to be under contract. Hextall should have waited until UFA started to come to an agreement with Rakell, because at that point I think you could have possibly sold Trocheck on "RW for Malkin until you take over for him at 2C".



This is exactly what they should have done, with maybe having Trocheck at RW to start but ultimately taking over for Malkin. They couldn't do that because Hextall re-signed Rakell like a week before free agency started IIRC.

Yeah, they resigned Rust in March and Rakell 2 days before FA. But they still obviously had Trochek on the radar and if what Andy99 said was true, it means the Penguins approached him after FA opened so maybe there would have been an effort to sign him regardless. I don't quite remember what the roster and cap looked like but we signed Rutta and Kapanen that day so that's $6mil right there. Maybe they have fit it all in but went cheap on 3/4RW and the third pairing.

 

[Andy99]

Nah this is 100% wrong, I'd absolutely kill to have Trocheck on this team. That's the kind of rat you hate on other teams but want on your team.



Considering there is talk of moving Malkin to RW just 2 years later, I don't know why they couldn't have sold Trocheck on being 2C and moving Malkin to RW.

Well, moving Malkin to wing in time, sure…don’t know what was discussed

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Wow I didn't know Staal and Adams were part of the captaincy revolt back in the day.

All the more reason to dislike both players. Learn something new every day.

 

[Andy99]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795898812864802855

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Forwards-

Rakell +++ for Necas. Sign him to 8x7.5M AAV

Smith to Utah for 5th/6th

Debrusk 6x6M AAV

Duhaime 2x1.3M AAV

Defense-

Stecher 1x1.1M AAV

TJ Brodie 2x2.5M AAV

Goalies-

Jarry to Calgary for 5/6th rounder (Markstrom traded)

POJ for Spencer Knight (4.5M cap hit)

Talbot 1x3M AAV

Hellberg 1x1M AAV

TJ Brodie did struggle this past year I kinda like the buy low option on him.

I think the one problem is if we give a lot for Necas then the future is put on hold. But ye know if it makes sense it makes sense.

I still don't see Debrusk coming here.

 

[chethejet]

Malkin has 2 years left and played better with Bunting. DK s[orts has said internal discussions on moving Malkin to wing to allow him to play with less on his plate vs center. No question he is slowing down but is still a top 6 winger in puck skills and offensive play. Make or break year in a sense as Pens have to compete in the last days here. If they fail for whatever reason, then the purge has to happen.

 

[HandshakeLine]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1795898812864802855

Real AC quality brain on this one.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That entire 2022 off-season was just a downright dumpster fire that is probably the reason that this team's window is firmly shut closed.

1. You had the Malkin drama where he almost went to free agency because Hextall wouldn't give him a 4th year, despite giving Letang a 6 year deal a few weeks earlier.
2. You had the Rakell long-term deal blocking them out of the Trocheck market, who sounds like wanted to come to the Penguins and would have been a huge upgrade on Rakell. I'm not even down on Rakell's performance with the Penguins, it has been fine and he's paid a fair amount for what he does, but Trocheck is actually a game changer.
3. The whole changes to the defense was a downright catastrophe that made the team worse. They gave up Marino for nothing and gave up Matheson for a guy who'd be a cap dump a year later. Even if you want to argue Marino and Matheson weren't anything special, there were absolutely better ways to handle their value than how they did (like that potential Marino for Hoglander deal). Paying Rutta $2.75 million to be a bland bottom pair guy just made it worse.
4. Hextall let ERod walk just to re-sign Kapanen, only for Kapanen to end up on waivers later that year (and luckily claimed) and ERod to continue to be a damn solid middle-6 forward.
5. Pretty much their entire bottom-6 regressed massively from 2021-2022 to 2022-2023, which makes sense considering Hextall did nothing to add to that bottom-6 and made the puck moving of the team far worse with the defense trades.

Just a downright mess that mostly explains why this team is in the position it is in now.

This isn't to excuse Dubas obviously, frankly I've really soured on the Karlsson deal at this point and his FA additions were bad last off-season. But still, this team's path changed for the worse in the 2022 off-season and it's really easy to see why when you look at the moves they made versus the moves they didn't make.

 

[Gurglesons]

That entire 2022 off-season was just a downright dumpster fire that is probably the reason that this team's window is firmly shut closed.

1. You had the Malkin drama where he almost went to free agency because Hextall wouldn't give him a 4th year, despite giving Letang a 6 year deal a few weeks earlier.
2. You had the Rakell long-term deal blocking them out of the Trocheck market, who sounds like wanted to come to the Penguins and would have been a huge upgrade on Rakell. I'm not even down on Rakell's performance with the Penguins, it has been fine and he's paid a fair amount for what he does, but Trocheck is actually a game changer.
3. The whole changes to the defense was a downright catastrophe that made the team worse. They gave up Marino for nothing and gave up Matheson for a guy who'd be a cap dump a year later. Even if you want to argue Marino and Matheson weren't anything special, there were absolutely better ways to handle their value than how they did (like that potential Marino for Hoglander deal). Paying Rutta $2.75 million to be a bland bottom pair guy just made it worse.
4. Hextall let ERod walk just to re-sign Kapanen, only for Kapanen to end up on waivers later that year (and luckily claimed) and ERod to continue to be a damn solid middle-6 forward.
5. Pretty much their entire bottom-6 regressed massively from 2021-2022 to 2022-2023, which makes sense considering Hextall did nothing to add to that bottom-6 and made the puck moving of the team far worse with the defense trades.

Just a downright mess that mostly explains why this team is in the position it is in now.

This isn't to excuse Dubas obviously, frankly I've really soured on the Karlsson deal at this point and his FA additions were bad last off-season. But still, this team's path changed for the worse in the 2022 off-season and it's really easy to see why when you look at the moves they made versus the moves they didn't make.

Not really. 2022 offseason was fine and getting out of the Matheson and Marino contracts was a godsend.

Kris Letang re-signing was probably the dumbest thing we did that summer. And we all know I'm the biggest Letang homer on here.