GDT: Pens’ Black & Gold Game (7 p.m., CEC | Free admission | TV: ROOT)

[thecore]

I agree with those who have said Martin was great for us in year 1 and bad in year 2. I wouldn't take too much from a scrimmage, but Martin sure looked more like last year's **** version.

It's all related to his physical play. He's never going to be physical Brooks Orpik or even Kris Letang, but that's not what his detractors are asking for. They want him to take a hit to make a play when its warranted, and be stronger on his skates when protecting the puck. He did those things his first year, not last year. Could be injuries, complacency, personal life, who knows?

I really want to believe he can rebound.

 

[mgd525]

I agree with those who have said Martin was great for us in year 1 and bad in year 2. I wouldn't take too much from a scrimmage, but Martin sure looked more like last year's **** version.

It's all related to his physical play. He's never going to be physical Brooks Orpik or even Kris Letang, but that's not what his detractors are asking for. They want him to take a hit to make a play when its warranted, and be stronger on his skates when protecting the puck. He did those things his first year, not last year. Could be injuries, complacency, personal life, who knows?

I really want to believe he can rebound.

EXACTLY this. Your labeled a yinzer though by some because they think we expect him to be Orpik. It's hilarious. Noone expects him to throw out hits ect... I sure as hell do expect him to take a ****ing hit every once in awhile to make a play and to not turn the puck over on a regular basis.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Had my own game tonight, so I couldn't watch.

The one thing I want to know is, how was Jeffrey's skating?

 

[mgd525]

Had my own game tonight, so I couldn't watch.

The one thing I want to know is, how was Jeffrey's skating?

His knee looked fine.

 

[Captain Hook]

Yeah, Shero was interviewed during the game and mentioned how Jeffrey's got his skating back to where it was before the knee injuries. I'm paraphrasing a bit there but that was basically what he said.

 

[TheSniper26]

EXACTLY this. Your labeled a yinzer though by some because they think we expect him to be Orpik. It's hilarious. Noone expects him to throw out hits ect... I sure as hell do expect him to take a ****ing hit every once in awhile to make a play and to not turn the puck over on a regular basis.

No, you get labeled a yinzer when there were plenty of guys that didn't play very well yet the only one singled out is, predictably, the team whipping boy. Also when you dramatically exaggerate just how poorly the guy played. Prime example below...

Everything for me was a plus. I was there. Except....

Paul Martin. Basically every part of his game. I was embarrassed for him.

To say that "everything was a plus except Martin" is indicative of someone that isn't being objective and just has an axe to grind against a specific player.

 

[NastyNick]

From what i saw tonight, Morrow looked more comfortable with Letang than Despres. That was surprising.

Martin played well, despite the growing coalition against him. He did his job with Orpik. Orpik laid a big hit, Martin stayed back and covered for him. That is how its going to roll with those two. I hope they can keep it up the whole year. Orpik looked a lot better now fully healthy

Bennett looked good, but he seemed to get gassed really quick. Disappeared after the first (very little ice time). I heard he might be recovering from the flu. Liked what i saw in those first couple of shifts. Definitely the guy to bring in if Dupuis or Kunitz get hurt.

Tangradi was mostly invisible. As usual. Malkin tends to dominate the puck, so as a third wheel hes probably the right guy for now. Not perfect, but it'll do.

Jeffrey was a pleasant surprise. Nearly forgot about him. Healthy again too. Definitely we have some depth and competition for the top 6.

Fleury looked like he was in playoff form. Flopping around. Getting scored on from bad angles. It wasn't like the white team got many good opportunities, Fleury just let them all in. No swagger, no confidence. Scary foreshadowing i think.

Cleary Sutter and Cooke got a rise from playing against Sid and Geno. They played at 100%. Not going to get overly excited by it really. Coaches put on the challenge.

 

[mrzeigler]

The team missed an opportunity to make a lot of money last night. We overheard an usher say they expected to get 10K-12K people, not the 18,000-plus who showed up. Lots of kids. Plus, the fastest-moving wave in the history of CEC or the Igloo.

They had only a few food vendors open (the Aramark "Blaze" grills for the most part), no beermen and none of the freestanding vendors (like Dunkin Donuts, Rita's, beer vendors, etc.) ... A friends stood in line 35 minutes to get beers. I went to the arena straight from work and was starving but wasn't going to stand in line for half an hour for nachos. You can be sure that they brave people who did wait in line once weren't going to get back in line for another drink or popcorn or whatever. The Pens' loss was Aiello's gain, since we stopped for pizza afterward.

I wouldn't be surprised if, based on this, next training camp they consider having a nighttime scrimmage open to the public. Not only to rake in some extra cash on concession sales, but also to foster a love of the game for families with young children whose parents might not otherwise be able to afford an NHL game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

As a Canes fan, I was confident Sutter would quickly become a fan favorite in Pittsburgh. He was one of the most universally liked among Canes fans and while we are glad to have Jordan on the team, it was painful to see Sutter go.

He has great speed (which you are now seeing), so that's not something new for this year and he also has very under-rated hands / play-making skills. As a 21 year old, when he was brought up and used in an all around role (not shut-down), he had 21 goals and 40 points in 72 games. That season, he saw significant PP time and had 5G/5A on the PP. I had hoped he would get more offensive / PP opportunities in Carolina, but the coaches felt he was too important in the shut-down role, which he excelled at.

Since that 40 point season, he has become a much BETTER player even though his scoring was down as he was used in a shut-down role without any offensive talent on his wings (Dwyer and Nodl). He had the smartest hockey IQ on the team. He's always in the right spot, always makes the right play and rarely makes a mistake and you can consistently count on him night after night...he doesn't take nights or shifts off. Some may claim he isn't always aggressive enough (taking the puck in the zone) and will comment that he sometimes just dump it, but that's because he's smart enough to know when to push and when to dump it and re-group or get off the ice

A great player to have on any team and we were really was sad to see him go, but you guys will love him and I have a reason to root for the Pens now.

 

[netwolf]

Posted this in the training camp thread out of habit, but figured I'd throw it here as well. Sorry for the shameless self-promotion (or not)...

http://letsgopens.com/camp_reports.php?id=80

 

[WVP]

The team missed an opportunity to make a lot of money last night. We overheard an usher say they expected to get 10K-12K people, not the 18,000-plus who showed up. Lots of kids. Plus, the fastest-moving wave in the history of CEC or the Igloo.

They had only a few food vendors open (the Aramark "Blaze" grills for the most part), no beermen and none of the freestanding vendors (like Dunkin Donuts, Rita's, beer vendors, etc.) ... A friends stood in line 35 minutes to get beers. I went to the arena straight from work and was starving but wasn't going to stand in line for half an hour for nachos. You can be sure that they brave people who did wait in line once weren't going to get back in line for another drink or popcorn or whatever. The Pens' loss was Aiello's gain, since we stopped for pizza afterward.

I wouldn't be surprised if, based on this, next training camp they consider having a nighttime scrimmage open to the public. Not only to rake in some extra cash on concession sales, but also to foster a love of the game for families with young children whose parents might not otherwise be able to afford an NHL game.

I was planning on heading to the game with my two year old but passed after reading the reports of so many in line early in the day. Didn't want to wait outside with a two year old in this cold with no guarantee of actually getting inside. Maybe if it was freaking September like when scrimmages are supposed to be played!

I'm guessing there was a ton of college and high school kids there. That generation is extremely attached to the Pens, and in a 2013 social media world things like this just blow up.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Saw some of the highlights on the NHL network this morning and saw the huge lineup to get in, who said Pittsburgh isn't a hockeytown? Awesome to see

 

[ColePens]

From what i saw tonight, Morrow looked more comfortable with Letang than Despres. That was surprising.

Martin played well, despite the growing coalition against him. He did his job with Orpik. Orpik laid a big hit, Martin stayed back and covered for him. That is how its going to roll with those two. I hope they can keep it up the whole year. Orpik looked a lot better now fully healthy

Bennett looked good, but he seemed to get gassed really quick. Disappeared after the first (very little ice time). I heard he might be recovering from the flu. Liked what i saw in those first couple of shifts. Definitely the guy to bring in if Dupuis or Kunitz get hurt.

Tangradi was mostly invisible. As usual. Malkin tends to dominate the puck, so as a third wheel hes probably the right guy for now. Not perfect, but it'll do.

Jeffrey was a pleasant surprise. Nearly forgot about him. Healthy again too. Definitely we have some depth and competition for the top 6.

Fleury looked like he was in playoff form. Flopping around. Getting scored on from bad angles. It wasn't like the white team got many good opportunities, Fleury just let them all in. No swagger, no confidence. Scary foreshadowing i think.

Cleary Sutter and Cooke got a rise from playing against Sid and Geno. They played at 100%. Not going to get overly excited by it really. Coaches put on the challenge.

Lot of things to touch on...

- Fleury: I do believe his best game is when he simplifies what he does. Just make the save, control the rebound, and don't try to look flashy. Sometimes he's too athletic when he doesn't have to be.

- Tangradi was not invisible. He tries a little too hard when he plays w/ Geno, but he was very noticeable all night. All he needs to do is realize who he is and do exactly that. He created a lot of pressure off forechecking. Also has more speed this year.

- Agreed on Morrow.

- Jeffrey was irrelevant to me. He didn't really do much that we can't find elsewhere. I think he's an incredible talent, but it's just not opening up for him in Pittsburgh. I'm not going to cry if he eventually gets a shot somewhere else. In fact, I hope he does for his career.

As a Canes fan, I was confident Sutter would quickly become a fan favorite in Pittsburgh. He was one of the most universally liked among Canes fans and while we are glad to have Jordan on the team, it was painful to see Sutter go.

He has great speed (which you are now seeing), so that's not something new for this year and he also has very under-rated hands / play-making skills. As a 21 year old, when he was brought up and used in an all around role (not shut-down), he had 21 goals and 40 points in 72 games. That season, he saw significant PP time and had 5G/5A on the PP. I had hoped he would get more offensive / PP opportunities in Carolina, but the coaches felt he was too important in the shut-down role, which he excelled at.

Since that 40 point season, he has become a much BETTER player even though his scoring was down as he was used in a shut-down role without any offensive talent on his wings (Dwyer and Nodl). He had the smartest hockey IQ on the team. He's always in the right spot, always makes the right play and rarely makes a mistake and you can consistently count on him night after night...he doesn't take nights or shifts off. Some may claim he isn't always aggressive enough (taking the puck in the zone) and will comment that he sometimes just dump it, but that's because he's smart enough to know when to push and when to dump it and re-group or get off the ice

A great player to have on any team and we were really was sad to see him go, but you guys will love him and I have a reason to root for the Pens now.

Well... he became the man crush over night. He was everything as advertised and more. I just can't believe it. Thanks for the comments

 

[Shrimper]

Great to see it sold out last night.

Seen the highlights and although it's a practice game it was a bit worrying how slow Fleury and Vokoun were.

Bennett and Sutter looked good though.

 

[NastyNick]

As a Canes fan, I was confident Sutter would quickly become a fan favorite in Pittsburgh. He was one of the most universally liked among Canes fans and while we are glad to have Jordan on the team, it was painful to see Sutter go.

He has great speed (which you are now seeing), so that's not something new for this year and he also has very under-rated hands / play-making skills. As a 21 year old, when he was brought up and used in an all around role (not shut-down), he had 21 goals and 40 points in 72 games. That season, he saw significant PP time and had 5G/5A on the PP. I had hoped he would get more offensive / PP opportunities in Carolina, but the coaches felt he was too important in the shut-down role, which he excelled at.

Since that 40 point season, he has become a much BETTER player even though his scoring was down as he was used in a shut-down role without any offensive talent on his wings (Dwyer and Nodl). He had the smartest hockey IQ on the team. He's always in the right spot, always makes the right play and rarely makes a mistake and you can consistently count on him night after night...he doesn't take nights or shifts off. Some may claim he isn't always aggressive enough (taking the puck in the zone) and will comment that he sometimes just dump it, but that's because he's smart enough to know when to push and when to dump it and re-group or get off the ice

A great player to have on any team and we were really was sad to see him go, but you guys will love him and I have a reason to root for the Pens now.

That was nearly the same book as Staal. Except his break out year was a bit better (29 goals and 7 shorties). I don't know if Sutter is going to be happy here or if he is going to want to escape like Jordan. It sounds like (and looks like) he has more talent then a 3rd line center requires. He won't get much PP time on this team either. Maybe the Pens will have better luck turning him into a wing then they did with Staal, but long term i think he will leave in the same way Jordan did. Maybe the Canes steal him back some day.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Great to see it sold out last night.

Seen the highlights and although it's a practice game it was a bit worrying how slow Fleury and Vokoun were.

Bennett and Sutter looked good though.

After the Orpik hit all hitting almost stopped and the game turned into a step above an all star game. I am not sure how much you can judge a goalie in those circumstances. At minimum take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[bigd]

Tough decisions today for management. Bennett or Tangradi? Strait, Lovejoy, Bortuzzo, or Despres? Ho goes and who stays?

 

[Shrimper]

After the Orpik hit all hitting almost stopped and the game turned into a step above an all star game. I am not sure how much you can judge a goalie in those circumstances. At minimum take it all with a grain of salt.

True there's not a lot you can read from it but it was just something I noticed.

 

[Dupree13]

That was nearly the same book as Staal. Except his break out year was a bit better (29 goals and 7 shorties). I don't know if Sutter is going to be happy here or if he is going to want to escape like Jordan. It sounds like (and looks like) he has more talent then a 3rd line center requires. He won't get much PP time on this team either. Maybe the Pens will have better luck turning him into a wing then they did with Staal, but long term i think he will leave in the same way Jordan did. Maybe the Canes steal him back some day.

Maybe, but he can't pull a Staal for a good while. That was one of the best things about the Sutter trade. We got a really solid Staal replacement for a fraction of the price. Even in 2 years he'll be an RFA so while he'll certainly get a raise, it should still be at a pretty reasonable cost. See James Neal who could have easily gotten 7M on the open market.

 

[CHLLL Penguin]

I don't understand the Martin hate fest over this scrimmage. I thought Orpik-Martin looked good together. Laying hits isn't Martin's game and theres people in here expecting him to lay hits in a scrimmage? Thats Orpiks job, Martin is there to do what Orpik doesn't. Vice versa. These are the same people that are going to magnify his mistakes and ignore his successes all season long.

Despres looked weak which surprised me. He was pretty much responsible for 2 goals against. Morrow looked better. I don't get to see Morrow play alot, but every time I've seen him play I'm impressed. Can't wait to see when he gets his shot.

Tangradi will start with Geno/Malkin. He compliments that line well and will only get better with more time on that line. Bennett is too easy to send down as well. He'll benefit more from another season in the AHL than Tangradi will.

Our third like looked great out there. Hopefully they can bring that into the season. As much as I dont like TK, he looked great last night.

Megna's SO goal was slick.

Crosby/Fleury looked like they didnt care but thats to be expected.

Players I didnt notice: Dupuis and Adams.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe the Pens will have better luck turning him into a wing then they did with Staal, but long term i think he will leave in the same way Jordan did. Maybe the Canes steal him back some day.

There are a few of us on the Canes board (me being one of them) that think with his speed, overall awareness, and under-rated playmaking ability, that Sutter would have made a better winger than center. True he's valuable in the "shut down role" and does well at center, but I would have loved to have seen him as a top line winger with EStaal.

 

[vikingGoalie]

i came into this game expecting to see Bennett do good things, wasn't disappointed. I will say that Tangradi put in a great effort in this game, while Beau has more potential upside long term, if the scrimmage is any indication of ET's camp thus far you got to keep Tangradi on the roster simply because of the waiver situation. If he does awful he's alot more likely to pass through waivers, or try and trade him.

I thought Morrow looked better tonight with Letang then at any time I've seen him in the A this year. Now Letang's range is so great that he has a tendency to make the other defensemen with him look better who ever it is so....

But one thing that stood out to me from Steigy/Errey comment wise was this.

Steigy made the comment about Morrow that the coaching staff had broken down Morrow's game in order to build it back up and make him better defensively.
(which explains a lot in why he's been so awful in wbs this year).
But even more telling/foreboding was Errey's comment to that was that you have to be careful to not destroy a young player's confidence because if you do he might not recover from that (para-phrasing).

It's interesting that Errey would make that comment, perhaps he knows more about the situation or see's something there. But I make no bones about the fact that I'm at least slightly concerned that someone we hope is a top pairing defensemen someday is terri-bad in the AHL this season.

 

[Richard]

Just some quick thoughts;

Firstly, I thought Eric Tangradi was fine. He was the first man in on the forecheck and I saw more than a little Ryan Malone in him. I don't think he is as skilled, but I honestly think he is a better skater. Two times he went in a creamed someone allowing Geno to retrieve the puck. I thought he forced offense at times and missed two glorious chances. However, the fact that he is getting chances means that will come in time as he adjusts to NHL speed. Tangradi also made key little plays in the neutral zone and dzone (chipped a couple pucks up to teammates, blocked a shot, broke up some passes). Tangradi has the job.

Secondly, Those slagging Shero's drafting (including me) need to settle down. There was a ton of prospect talent on display last night. Bennett is the best of the bunch. No he isn't ready for prime time yet; but he is damn close. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a April call-up. He has the hands, flash and finish-simple need to polish his game. That kids gonna be a stud NHLer. Also, we have defenders in spades. I was impressed by that kid who came over with Sutter; Dumalin? he is huge and looks to have skill, I just cant place how good of a dman he will be yet. The non-waiver guys all produced adequately, as expected. Morrow has a future, again not yet, but he is definately a strong contender to land an NHL job.

Third, Paul Martin. Paul didn't make any mistakes but he is still so paper soft. He never panics, which is admirable, but he never displays any sense of urgency, which is not. I'm totally in favor of dumping him as soon as possible. Is oil to the penguins system water, he aint gonna mix here, ever.

Fourth, Goalies. Fleury is Fleury. I have zero confidence in his abilities and it seems like the team has taken it upon themselves to challenge him. Ever single play and guys are chirping him, swatting him, pressuring him. Maybe they are testing him as well? Regardless, I haven't lost faith in a Penguin goalie as fast as I have in MAF, and he hasn't restored that faith at any time in the couple practices and the scrim I've went to.

Fifthly, Orpik. Looks like the extended offseason has put to bed any lingering effects of his injury and surgery last season. Guy looks like a brick and was killing players until clearly told to lay off. Letang looks incredibly fit and strong on his skates as well. Cannon shot and great skating.

Lastly, the Powerplay. This powerplay is going to be dreadful, pure and simple. They miss Sullivans ability to skate it into the zone. They try and create any and all offense based upon the rush, which is a receipe for a powerplay disaster. There is no powerplay quarterback on this team. Geno did a passible job last year, but now we are back to too many chiefs and not enough indians. Kris Letang only creates consistent offense off the rush, he has never been, and I'm starting to doubt, ever will be, a powerplay qb or at least a guy whose head thinks the game at the level required to fully gell with Sid and Malkin powerplay.


I think this is a very good squad, but to be successful they have to fix that gapping hole in their blueline. Martin out, a guy who can eat minutes and play powerplay in.


P.S. Crosby looks rusty and off timing. Geno was flying around at half speed making players look silly. Game shape and practice shape are clearly two different things.

 

[Dupree13]

One thing I'm looking forward to is that the Tangradi debate should be settled one way or the other pretty soon. If he starts the season with Malkin like it looks like, we should find out quickly if he's up to the task.

Personally I don't think he will last very long there. I thought he looked brutal last night. I always thought his skating and speed were bad and people said how wrong I was. Well last night I realized something. Maybe he's not actually slow, but he looks like he's playing the game in slow motion because he just doesn't have the ability or quick hockey sense to excel and the NHL level. I think he'll suck the life out of the Malkin line and get yanked.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Like someone said before, don't put much stock into the goalie performances. It's tough for a 'tender to reach that extra gear necessary to perform at a high level in a scrimmage.