Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It appears that the Devils are working hard to re-sign both Meier and Bratt to full term, or near that, deals. The feeling is there's some details to be hammered out but all sides of negotiations feel like things will be wrapped up.

Not that either was an option, but for those of you who are outta your minds, you can probably cross those two off your lists now.

 

[Peat]

I dunno.

People were just saying the other day that as terrible as Granlund is (and he is) that he managed 60some points due strictly to opportunity. What the hell does that make non-buzzsaw Rust?

I know I'm being harsh but anyone who doesn't have deep, deep misgivings about that guy after last year either is a really huge Rust fan or isn't paying enough attention.

Same as he's been for a long time. An inconsistent 5v5 producer who possesses big boom potential due to his goalscoring ability, and whose speed and chemistry with the stars gives him some playdriving ability, but who lacks the skill and vision to be a consistently good thing.

And when you give him the sort of opportunity Granlund was getting, he flirts with ppg at the top end and puts up 60-something at his low end. And yeah, our top end is better than Nashville's, so maybe pinch of salt.

I wish he was better, as I know he can be. I wish his motor was running hotter. I think there's a lot of players who can do what he does for the Pens. But getting them in at under 5m without paying significantly some other way is hard.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Geno and Zucker were a duo last year and pretty dang good too.

Also Granlund could absolutely go on Sid's line as he's a career RW. It's probably not going to happen, but it's not like Granlund is a LW only guy who ergo can't be with Sid as that's where Guentzel is. The fact Hextall left us with 3 guys who are better on the RW here at 5m+ is just one more reason why the Granlund move was absolutely moronic.

If Zucker walks and Granlund stays, two big IFs, then this is probably the best lineup:

Guentzel - Crosby - Granlund
Rakell - Malkin - Rust

I don't love that. Would rather keep Zucker than Granlund. But if this is the top 6, this is how I'd deploy it. Rakell has position flexibility and his shot as a righty coming down the LW could be dangerous with Geno to feed him and Rust grinding the corners.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Tarasenko has under-performed on the last year of his contract... He did well in St Louis.

Wonder what kind of contract he is looking at? He doesn't address any defensive needs - but damn his shot would be nice on the Pens.

If the Pens part with Zucker, there is only 1 F on this team that can score at long range: Malkin

That's a MAJOR problem with this team and probably a large part of their lack of finishing issues

Does this team need top 6 scoring? This team needs depth scoring and someone with bite in the top 6.

They need another top 6 F if Zucker goes away

 

[Andy99]

I'm ready to make a horrible deal

Nurse retained to 7 million. For granlund.

I'm ready fellow pens fans for your thoughts.

If we’re talking horrible contracts from EDM in exchange for Granlund, I’d rather take a flyer on Campbell lol

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

You don't need a vicious shot. Kessel didnt have one.

This is categorically false. Kessel was dangerous as soon as he approached the top of the circles. The velocity and chaning plane of his shots are notorious.

You don't need to have a bomb/speed of a shot for it to be dangerous.

Look at Sid and Geno. Both are pretty great goal scorers, but how they get their goals could not be more different, but they are both dangerous in different ways.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rust was our best defensive Forward and even-strength goal leader in the 2nd half. Arguably our best PKer.
He got 46 points in a 3/4 season PP2 role. Both of his core lines were net positives.

That's pretty much what 5 mil gets you in this league. If he played below his AAV, it's not by very much.

He's probably gonna shoot better next year, which will go a long way to shutting people up. But if you want Rust to score 60 points in his new role then you don't know how scoring works.

 

[Empoleon8771]

FYI just saw something interesting from Kypreos:

On Michael Bunting not returning to the Leafs: Some NHL teams tell me the free-agent forward could get between $4.5 million and $5 million per season on a long-term deal based on the two-year, $8.5-million deal Andreas Athanasiou got with the Blackhawks. Toronto might be priced out.

Nick Kypreos: What the Maple Leafs can learn from Adin Hill’s Stanley Cup final run with Golden Knights

The Leafs have plenty of options in goal, but after watching Hill’s playoff run the question is: how bold does GM Brad Treliving want to be?

www.thestar.com

If that's all he costs, I'm going to be livid if they don't bring him in to replace Zucker.

I also think there are some decent comparables you can point to that suggests the $4.5 million to $5 million range is pretty reasonable for Bunting. The best one is Mason Marchment, who signed a 4 year, $4.5 million AAV deal with Dallas after putting up 47 points in 54 games with Florida. I don't think Marchment quite had Bunting's resume, but I don't think it's far off either.

I think 5x5 would likely get it done with Bunting.

 

[ChaosAgent]

This is categorically false. Kessel was dangerous as soon as he approached the top of the circles. The velocity and chaning plane of his shots are notorious.

You don't need to have a bomb/speed of a shot for it to be dangerous.

Look at Sid and Geno. Both are pretty great goal scorers, but how they get their goals could not be more different, but they are both dangerous in different ways.

Geno really isn't scoring goals from distance at 5-on-5 any more. Not sure if there is a fancy chart that confirms or puts me in my place. He was scoring from in close.

Yes he has PP goals from the point as that is his position (not the best one for him, mind you)

I think the shot quality of all 5 under contract top 6ers is pretty similar these days to be honest

 

[Peat]

If Zucker walks and Granlund stays, two big IFs, then this is probably the best lineup:

Guentzel - Crosby - Granlund
Rakell - Malkin - Rust

I don't love that. Would rather keep Zucker than Granlund. But if this is the top 6, this is how I'd deploy it. Rakell has position flexibility and his shot as a righty coming down the LW could be dangerous with Geno to feed him and Rust grinding the corners.

If Granlund has the legs and battle instincts to play in the corners like Sid demands from his wingers, I think that set up could be really good. He has the hands and vision of a Sid winger. I just don't think he does any more.

Honestly, if we keep Granlund, I'd want to build L3 around him. Use him as the puck possessor and move for a pair of grinding puck transporters that can shoot. He'd probably be overpaid for his role but he could potentially make a good line with the right players. I don't really believe in that enough to want to keep him.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Geno really isn't scoring goals from distance at 5-on-5 any more. Not sure if there is a fancy chart that confirms or puts me in my place. He was scoring from in close.

Yes he has PP goals from the point as that is his position (not the best one for him, mind you)

I think the shot quality of all 5 under contract top 6ers is pretty similar these days to be honest

You're right- most of his goals from afar are on the PP. Which again, speaks volumes about the rest of the team's ability to connect from long range.

 

[ChaosAgent]

If Granlund has the legs and battle instincts to play in the corners like Sid demands from his wingers, I think that set up could be really good. He has the hands and vision of a Sid winger. I just don't think he does any more.

Honestly, if we keep Granlund, I'd want to build L3 around him. Use him as the puck possessor and move for a pair of grinding puck transporters that can shoot. He'd probably be overpaid for his role but he could potentially make a good line with the right players. I don't really believe in that enough to want to keep him.

Honestly, DOC-Poehling-Granlund wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But I'd rather put Puustinen there.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If we’re talking horrible contracts from EDM in exchange for Granlund, I’d rather take a flyer on Campbell lol

I realize this deal sorta sucks but hear me out.

Nurse is a big dumb LD that clears crease and eats ES minutes.

Doesn't do a lot of PP so can eat PK and ES minutes. At 7 million I think he is where he should have been signed. I'd even take a small + from them to even it out. I know it's an expensive move cap space wise but I think it solves the LD.

 

[ChaosAgent]

You're right- most of his goals from afar are on the PP. Which again, speaks volumes about the rest of the team's ability to connect from long range.

Letang had a couple point shots as well.

I think Petry actually has the best point shot on the team, but he's lacking in QBing the powerplay.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

FYI just saw something interesting from Kypreos:

Nick Kypreos: What the Maple Leafs can learn from Adin Hill’s Stanley Cup final run with Golden Knights

The Leafs have plenty of options in goal, but after watching Hill’s playoff run the question is: how bold does GM Brad Treliving want to be?

www.thestar.com

If that's all he costs, I'm going to be livid if they don't bring him in to replace Zucker.

I also think there are some decent comparables you can point to that suggests the $4.5 million to $5 million range is pretty reasonable for Bunting. The best one is Mason Marchment, who signed a 4 year, $4.5 million AAV deal with Dallas after putting up 47 points in 54 games with Florida. I don't think Marchment quite had Bunting's resume, but I don't think it's far off either.

I think 5x5 would likely get it done with Bunting.

Before we had Dubas i wanted Bunting

I think 4.5 x 6 years is a possibility if he like that deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would actually do that Granlund for Nurse deal but there's no chance Nurse would waive his NMC nor would Edmonton do that trade.

But back to Granlund, I really don't think there is an acceptable solution of him being on the roster for next year. Keeping Granlund on the roster will either prevent the Penguins from being able to replace Zucker (or keep Zucker) or will prevent the Penguins from being able to spend money on their 3rd line. Both of those are unacceptable outcomes IMO. I don't have the numbers directly in front of me, but I'm pretty sure you'd only have maybe $3 million to spend on 2 wingers to play with Granlund on the 3rd line, and that's just not going to be enough to make a strong enough 3rd line.

I already think there's a real chance the Penguins are going to have a very suspect LD group next year, so they really need to try to have as few issues on the rest of their roster. Keeping Granlund basically ensures they'll have more issues on the roster.

If you keep Granlund, the best case scenario is something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
Bunting-Malkin-Rust
Comtois-Kampf-Granlund
O'Connor-Poehling-Carter

That's with getting Comtois to a reclamation project style contract and paying Kampf like $2.5 million a year. I just don't think that cuts it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Letang had a couple point shots as well.

I think Petry actually has the best point shot on the team, but he's lacking in QBing the powerplay.

That's where coaching comes in.
I agree that Petry has the best point shot and can't run the PP worth a damn. So why in the hell does the PP automatically get Qb'd from the LD? Especially since you have 2 generational forwards. It makes zero sense

I would totally have reconfigured and re-personnel the PP. Without going into detail on the former, just swapping Petry for Letang would have worked if they let Malkin QB it from Sid's spot on the half wall.

It's like they had a bet where they could assemble the best players on the ice, but put them in the worse possible positions to succeed.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Again, it's really f***ing insane that Hextall gave Carter a 2nd year and a NMC, then went out and got Granlund, a player who is a terrible fit anywhere in this team's lineup with an awful contract to boot. Just bizarre, brainless stuff. The GMing equivalent of Mike Johnston's coaching.

 

[Andy99]

I realize this deal sorta sucks but hear me out.

Nurse is a big dumb LD that clears crease and eats ES minutes.

Doesn't do a lot of PP so can eat PK and ES minutes. At 7 million I think he is where he should have been signed. I'd even take a small + from them to even it out. I know it's an expensive move cap space wise but I think it solves the LD.

He’s signed for 7 more years..even if you get a little retention from EDM, just no…not a fan of his game either

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Letang had a couple point shots as well.

I think Petry actually has the best point shot on the team, but he's lacking in QBing the powerplay.

In power and accuracy he's up there. He does telegraph his intentions though, and that limits its effectiveness.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Again, it's really f***ing insane that Hextall gave Carter a 2nd year and a NMC, then went out and got Granlund, a player who is a terrible fit anywhere in this team's lineup with an awful contract to boot. Just bizarre, brainless stuff. The GMing equivalent of Mike Johnston's coaching.

I know the Carter contract sucks but I actually think he still has some usefulness as a winger for Poehling. Poehling is horrendous on faceoffs and Carter is legitimately terrific on them.

I don't want him playing much at all, but a 4RW that is mostly a faceoff specialist actually provides value for the Penguins IMO. He's comically overpaid and stinks of course, but I can see some value from him in that role. Granlund? I just don't see any role where he makes sense.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Rust did a better job taking up space and is a much more dangerous scorer. I'm not happy about his season last year but he has the tools to bounce back. Granlund doesn't.

Granlund legit has a tool.

He literally makes himself invisible.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I know the Carter contract sucks but I actually think he still has some usefulness as a winger for Poehling. Poehling is horrendous on faceoffs and Carter is legitimately terrific on them.

I don't want him playing much at all, but a 4RW that is mostly a faceoff specialist actually provides value for the Penguins IMO. He's comically overpaid and stinks of course, but I can see some value from him in that role. Granlund? I just don't see any role where he makes sense.

The only spot for Carter in this lineup is as a PP specialist shooter kinda guy who gets absolutely buried at ES because he's abysmal out there. Like you said, hard to justify that kind of usage with his cap hit, but they don't really have a choice.

Granlund was just... f***ing dumb, I don't know how to put it more eloquently. From cap hit, to term, to the player's frame, to how the player gets their production, to style of play/weaknesses. Just mind-boggling how professionals who are supposed to know their own team perfectly saw Granlund and said "yeah give me that guy, with no salary retained, for a 2nd rounder".

 

[gdsmack267]

Any chance Dubas targets a guy like Dubois?

 

[Sideline]

Any chance Dubas targets a guy like Dubois?

By all accounts Dubois is going to Montreal at the first opportunity. He's effectively a rental.