Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Al Smith]

Does DOC have any trade value?

I think DOC has proven himself to be a tweener. I don't think there's much trade value in anyone in that category.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Pens do have four of their top 12 forwards out at the moment. Not saying I'd agree with it, but there is a built in excuse to continue to evaluate.

I think tomorrow is key. WBS plays tonight. Dubas may be waiting for that game to end to make a move in case there are dominoes that impact WBS, too. Even if it's just bringing up one of those guys to replace Reirden, waiting until after tonight's game is less disruptive.

 

[Pens x]

Pens do have four of their top 12 forwards out at the moment. Not saying I'd agree with it, but there is a built in excuse to continue to evaluate.

I think tomorrow is key. WBS plays tonight. Dubas may be waiting for that game to end to make a move in case there are dominoes that impact WBS, too. Even if it's just bringing up one of those guys to replace Reirden, waiting until after tonight's game is less disruptive.

I dont think that game has any impact on lazy Dubas doing anything.

 

[The Old Master]

Pens do have four of their top 12 forwards out at the moment. Not saying I'd agree with it, but there is a built in excuse to continue to evaluate.

I think tomorrow is key. WBS plays tonight. Dubas may be waiting for that game to end to make a move in case there are dominoes that impact WBS, too. Even if it's just bringing up one of those guys to replace Reirden, waiting until after tonight's game is less disruptive.

i think it would be funny if they bring in someone else instead of sully taking over for him. it would be saying that sully has no clue as to how to fix this mess. (but it would give him someone else to blame)

 

[Kristopher Letang]

Wow the coaching staff survived once again.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

i think it would be funny if they bring in someone else instead of sully taking over for him. it would be saying that sully has no clue as to how to fix this mess. (but it would give him someone else to blame)

I think the idea behind replacing just Reirden is two-fold. One, it brings in a new voice, which the room could use. Two, it puts the rest of the staff on notice.

The Pens (and the Blues in 2018) are outliers. Midseason coaching changes typically don't do a whole lot.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Has Kyle Dubas reflected the board's feelings yet?

 

[Gurglesons]

I think the idea behind replacing just Reirden is two-fold. One, it brings in a new voice, which the room could use. Two, it puts the rest of the staff on notice.

The Pens (and the Blues in 2018) are outliers. Midseason coaching changes typically don't do a whole lot.

Bowness took the Stars to the cup finals in 2020 and was hired in season.

Ducharme took the Habs to the cup finals in 2021 and was hired in season.

Cassidy was a midseason coaching change and had the Bruins in the cup finals within 2 years. But when he was changed the Bruins went something like 18-2.

Sullivan sucks ass and as soon as he is gone we will get a chance to see what this roster really is.

 

[Andy99]

I think the idea behind replacing just Reirden is two-fold. One, it brings in a new voice, which the room could use. Two, it puts the rest of the staff on notice.

The Pens (and the Blues in 2018) are outliers. Midseason coaching changes typically don't do a whole lot.

I mean they may not cause a team to win the Cup but tell Edmonton and Minnesota that it hasn’t improved the team…sure has

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think the idea behind replacing just Reirden is two-fold. One, it brings in a new voice, which the room could use. Two, it puts the rest of the staff on notice.

The Pens (and the Blues in 2018) are outliers. Midseason coaching changes typically don't do a whole lot.

Basing your statement on whether a team ends up winning the Cup after a midseason coaching change is dubious at best. A coaching change can still be good even if all it means is it turns a non-playoff team into a playoff team that wins 1 round.

Look at the Oilers. They're actually winning now and actually starting to look halfway decent after the change. If they don't ultimately win the Cup this year, that doesn't negate the fact the change helped them out of their funk and turned their season around.

 

[Pancakes]

I think the idea behind replacing just Reirden is two-fold. One, it brings in a new voice, which the room could use. Two, it puts the rest of the staff on notice.

The Pens (and the Blues in 2018) are outliers. Midseason coaching changes typically don't do a whole lot.

Sully already has had his assistant coaches get fired in the past.

Agree that replacing Sully may very well do nothing. But they'd be foolish to not try. It's the only significant play they have left. There are no trades that are saving this team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Sully already has had his assistant coaches get fired in the past.

Agree that replacing Sully may very well do nothing. But they'd be foolish to not try. It's the only significant play they have left. There are no trades that are saving this team.

There are two constants over the past 5 years of failures - the coach and the core. So unless this organization believes the core is the problem and wants to trade all of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel and Rust, then the only option to try and fix the issue is the coach.

It's really not rocket science. Changing the 11th or 12th forward or 5th or 6th defenseman while keeping everything that's been the same since 2018 achieves nothing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What are the other realistic options, DP, that don’t involve firing your dad?

 

[Pancakes]

There are two constants over the past 5 years of failures - the coach and the core. So unless this organization believes the core is the problem and wants to trade all of Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Guentzel and Rust, then the only option to try and fix the issue is the coach.

It's really not rocket science. Changing the 11th or 12th forward or 5th or 6th defenseman while keeping everything that's been the same since 2018 achieves nothing.

Regardless of whether or not firing Sullivan changes anything they definitely should try it because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[HandshakeLine]

In fact, if I never have to hear a smug, arrogant MS press conference again, the whole move pays for itself.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Bowness took the Stars to the cup finals in 2020 and was hired in season.

Ducharme took the Habs to the cup finals in 2021 and was hired in season.

Cassidy was a midseason coaching change and had the Bruins in the cup finals within 2 years. But when he was changed the Bruins went something like 18-2.

Sullivan sucks ass and as soon as he is gone we will get a chance to see what this roster really is.

There have been 34 midseason coaching changes since the start of the 2015-16 season, excluding the two that have taken place this year.

Five examples out of 34 where there was a significant impact.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. But expectations should be minimal as to the impact.

I mean they may not cause a team to win the Cup but tell Edmonton and Minnesota that it hasn’t improved the team…sure has

Short term bump. We'll see what happens long term. I sure as hell don't have faith in Hynes in Minnesota.

 

[metalan2]

I'd trade Jarry and Guentzel right now while their stock is highest. Could get massive hauls.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'd trade Jarry and Guentzel right now while their stock is highest. Could get massive hauls.

Rust would get a 1st at least if he would waive. Blow it up!

 

[Andy99]

There have been 34 midseason coaching changes since the start of the 2015-16 season, excluding the two that have taken place this year.

Five examples out of 34 where there was a significant impact.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. But expectations should be minimal as to the impact.


Short term bump. We'll see what happens long term. I sure as hell don't have faith in Hynes in Minnesota.

I’ll take short term bump too after firing Sullivan…that could place us squarely in a P.O. spot, even if we don’t win any playoff games..it beats languishing second from the bottom of the Metro where we’re about to be overtaken by the Blue Jackets lol

 

[Darren McCord]

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. But expectations should be minimal as to the impact.

If it makes the team fun to watch that’s all I care. Sullivan has made them a chore to watch for awhile

 

[Gurglesons]

There have been 34 midseason coaching changes since the start of the 2015-16 season, excluding the two that have taken place this year.

Five examples out of 34 where there was a significant impact.

I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. But expectations should be minimal as to the impact.


Short term bump. We'll see what happens long term. I sure as hell don't have faith in Hynes in Minnesota.

What is a significant impact.

This is a pointless argument with you because you still have faith in Sullivan for some weird reason.

The facts are with our core we’ve seen significant success with firing our coach in season.

The other examples you’ve provided didn’t have Crosby, Malkin, Letang, EK65 and Jake Guentzel unable to be a playoff team or hell score a Powerplay goal.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Regardless of whether or not firing Sullivan changes anything they definitely should try it because they have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

This is precisely it.

Maybe they fire the coach and we find out it IS the roster that sucks? Cool, at least now we know 100% what needs fixing. But as long as Sullivan is kept around, we'll never truly know how much of this is coaching and how much is roster-related.

The "we could be worse" crowd misses the point. We're a mediocre team NOW who is on the brink of missing the playoffs for a second straight season. I don't see any difference between finishing with 90 points and missing and finishing with 80 points and missing. But at least we'd then be able to evaluate the roster with a fresh set of eyes to see what issues persist with the new coach.

What is a significant impact.

This is a pointless argument with you because you still have faith in Sullivan for some weird reason.

There never seems to be a "right" time to fire Sullivan.

-Can't do it in the off-season because we don't see how he does with a full roster yet
-Can't do it mid-season because ... I guess because Hynes sucks with Minnesota?
-Can't do it at the end of the season because there aren't many coaches available and have to wait until the off-season

Rinse and repeat.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is precisely it.

Maybe they fire the coach and we find out it IS the roster that sucks? Cool, at least now we know 100% what needs fixing. But as long as Sullivan is kept around, we'll never truly know how much of this is coaching and how much is roster-related.

The "we could be worse" crowd misses the point. We're a mediocre team NOW who is on the brink of missing the playoffs for a second straight season. I don't see any difference between finishing with 90 points and missing and finishing with 80 points and missing. But at least we'd then be able to evaluate the roster with a fresh set of eyes to see what issues persist with the new coach.


There never seems to be a "right" time to fire Sullivan.

-Can't do it in the off-season because we don't see how he does with a full roster yet
-Can't do it mid-season because ... I guess because Hynes sucks with Minnesota?
-Can't do it at the end of the season because there aren't many coaches available and have to wait until the off-season

Rinse and repeat.

I don’t think there is a single example of a coach failing as much as Sullivan has and getting rope.

Q was out after winning 3 cups after missing the playoffs once.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, Sullivan's immunity is insane. Across multiple GMs, multiple ownership groups. Just bizarre.

But I always bring up the longevity of coaches in the NHL who have ever had any kind of success. Even a guy like Ruff who has only ever *made* the SCF once--not won--has just kinda stuck around getting jobs whenever he wanted for 30 years.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

This is precisely it.

Maybe they fire the coach and we find out it IS the roster that sucks? Cool, at least now we know 100% what needs fixing. But as long as Sullivan is kept around, we'll never truly know how much of this is coaching and how much is roster-related.

The "we could be worse" crowd misses the point. We're a mediocre team NOW who is on the brink of missing the playoffs for a second straight season. I don't see any difference between finishing with 90 points and missing and finishing with 80 points and missing. But at least we'd then be able to evaluate the roster with a fresh set of eyes to see what issues persist with the new coach.


There never seems to be a "right" time to fire Sullivan.

-Can't do it in the off-season because we don't see how he does with a full roster yet
-Can't do it mid-season because ... I guess because Hynes sucks with Minnesota?
-Can't do it at the end of the season because there aren't many coaches available and have to wait until the off-season

Rinse and repeat.

I would fire Reirden now. Replace him with just about anyone who has a different perspective on the PP.

I would ride out the rest of the regular season. Barring a miracle, I'd fire Sullivan and do a full search, because the candidates I am interested in are currently employed.

I think this franchise would be doing itself a disservice if it hires its next full-time coach without talking to guys like Marco Sturm, Jeff Halpern, Jay Leach or Joe Sacco.

That's where I am. I think there are really, really promising coaches ready for an NHL gig and if I'm firing Sullivan, I want to talk to those guys, not hire BBQ Bruce or Dean Evason.