Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[pistolpete11]

also; .... it would also take the pressure off from having to trade him, to we will trade him for the right price.

Depends on how restrictive the NTC clause is, how badly Jake wants to leave, and how he's playing at the time, but.....yes, I think it's reasonable IF Jake wants to stay here. Who knows on that, though. He might not want to go down with this sinking ship. Or he might want to see how much he can get on the market. Or go live in LA or Texas or New York or whatever other bigger market.

OH GOOD GOD Stopwith the Gallant shit, He sucks outloud

Maybe read what I wrote before you bitch about it. I didn't say to get Gallant.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This is where I diverge.

Outside of Dubas demanding the PP coach be canned, I have no issue with what he's done.
Unless I hear something different, he does not have the ability to fire Sully.

And I guess I'll caveat my post with saying that I'm unsure if he has the power to insist that Sully fire his PP coach.

I also wonder if Dubas' hesitation to make moves is in part because he's seen firsthand the type of players Sullivan favors.

Maybe Dubas wants to add more skill but sees that Sullivan will not utilize them properly or will demand instead he acquire more plugs for the bottom six.

In Toronto, Dubas had a reputation for almost going *too* far in the skill department and not enough grit/defensive play. But that's completely at odds with the type of players Sullivan loves and which ones he hates.

It would be like a general manager in baseball wanting to build a team around power hitters but having a manager who wants to play small ball and has his 40 homerun guys bunting all the time.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I also wonder if Dubas' hesitation to make moves is in part because he's seen firsthand the type of players Sullivan favors.

Maybe Dubas wants to add more skill but sees that Sullivan will not utilize them properly or will demand instead he acquire more plugs for the bottom six.

In Toronto, Dubas had a reputation for almost going *too* far in the skill department and not enough grit/defensive play. But that's completely at odds with the type of players Sullivan loves and which ones he hates.

It would be like a general manager in baseball wanting to build a team around power hitters but having a manager who wants to play small ball and has his 40 homerun guys bunting all the time.

Then you fire the coach and build the team you want to build.

 

[Pens1566]

Then you fire the coach and build the team you want to build.

Front office is still deciding on this since the play-in round from the COVID year ...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Then you fire the coach and build the team you want to build.

Oh, I agree. But I don't think "fire the coach" is an option for some mysterious reason. So assuming Sullivan's still around, I'm just saying how Dubas likes to build a roster is completely different than the type of roster Sullivan likes.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Oh, I agree. But I don't think "fire the coach" is an option for some mysterious reason. So assuming Sullivan's still around, I'm just saying how Dubas likes to build a roster is completely different than the type of roster Sullivan likes.

If it’s not an option, then Dubas played himself into a worse situation than Toronto, so lol, f***ing he’s not only dumb, he’s a blatant hypocrite.

 

[Josey Wales]

If this team has somehow bonered itself into a situation where the GM can't fire the coach if he wanted to then I don't even know anymore.

UMMMMM they gave Dubas a 7 Year 42 Million dollar deal & they admit they don't know about Hockey

If they brought in Gallant or someone that players really don't like

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

UMMMMM they gave Dubas a 7 Year 42 Million dollar deal & they admit they don't know about Hockey

If they brought in Gallant or someone that players really don't like

I'm not sure what you're driving at, here.

What I'm saying is I'd be incredulous at the idea that the GM doesn't actually have the latitude to fire the coaching staff. I've never really heard of such a thing. If that was the deal then it was a devil deal.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm not sure what you're driving at, here.

What I'm saying is I'd be incredulous at the idea that the GM doesn't actually have the latitude to fire the coaching staff. I've never really heard of such a thing. If that was the deal then it was a devil deal.

Josey is dumb as rocks, lol.

 

[Josey Wales]

I'm not sure what you're driving at, here.

What I'm saying is I'd be incredulous at the idea that the GM doesn't actually have the latitude to fire the coaching staff. I've never really heard of such a thing. If that was the deal then it was a devil deal.

Because They admit they don't know hockey & basically gave Dubas all that he wanted & more in money & pretty much complete control of Hockey operations & you think they told him you can't fire our buddy ?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Because They admit they don't know hockey & basically gave Dubas all that he wanted & more in money & pretty much complete control of Hockey operations & you think they told him you can't fire our buddy ?

I mean... I don't know? I literally said "if" -- the team's actions or inaction says something is holding them up from doing what basically any team would have done by now. It's called speculation. It's why we're here. We all know that the ownership group is over the moon about Mike Sullivan. It's far fetched but then again I framed it that way.

You... don't think I make things actually happen on the team do you?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Josey is dumb as rocks, lol.

Is that who he was responding to? I was confused with @BlindWillyMcHurt post because it came immediately after yours and didn't seem to be in direct response to what you said.

 

[Josey Wales]

I mean... I don't know? I literally said "if" -- the team's actions or inaction says something is holding them up from doing what basically any team would have done by now. It's called speculation. It's why we're here. We all know that the ownership group is over the moon about Mike Sullivan. It's far fetched but then again I framed it that way.

You... don't think I make things actually happen on the team do you?

To even THINK THAT knowing that FSG admits they are new to the hockey Business & Gave Dubas 7 Years & 42 Million is just BONKERS

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To even THINK THAT knowing that FSG admits they are new to the hockey Business & Gave Dubas 7 Years & 42 Million is just BONKERS

So basically you have nothing to offer to this conversation. Noted.

 

[Josey Wales]

So basically you have nothing to offer to this conversation. Noted.

Good Non answer Posters here have called me a Sullivan Swallower & Sullivan's wife & Sullivan's account because I have the audacity to say Firing the CS will not change anything, & now some of those posters are posting to trade Guentzel, even Sid

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Why would anyone rewatch this team the last 2 seasons for any game?

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

To even THINK THAT knowing that FSG admits they are new to the hockey Business & Gave Dubas 7 Years & 42 Million is just BONKERS

Everything in Dubas' history points that's he an active GM.

I have said this before and say it again, but that EK trade was incredible! I bet you Dubas would have pulled off the trade for Chychrun the year before that Hextall couldn't close out.

This is why I'm perplexed as to what's going on right now....
The goal post keep moving...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm not sure what you're driving at, here.

What I'm saying is I'd be incredulous at the idea that the GM doesn't actually have the latitude to fire the coaching staff. I've never really heard of such a thing. If that was the deal then it was a devil deal.

You mean like the Pens? JR probably wanted to fire Sullivan and was told to kick rocks and had his power taken away and likely why he left. Hextall probably wanted to as well and then kept trying to fix the prospect pool and find Sullivan's types and was fired as being the problem. Dubas is now blaming his moves, adding depth and a f***ing Norris winner, as to why the coach isn't doing better.

FSG also has been high on Sullivan and it's well documented as well as the fact that when Hextall and Burke were fired, FSG approached Sullivan on what to do with the team and the AHL. That's unheard of. No ownership goes to the f***ing coach and says hey how should we handle the affiliate? That's the Assistant Gm's job.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean Occam’s razor suggests that we haven’t made moves because Dubas doesn’t think we need to.

 

[Josey Wales]

You mean like the Pens? JR probably wanted to fire Sullivan and was told to kick rocks and had his power taken away and likely why he left. Hextall probably wanted to as well and then kept trying to fix the prospect pool and find Sullivan's types and was fired as being the problem. Dubas is now blaming his moves, adding depth and a f***ing Norris winner, as to why the coach isn't doing better.

FSG also has been high on Sullivan and it's well documented as well as the fact that when Hextall and Burke were fired, FSG approached Sullivan on what to do with the team and the AHL. That's unheard of. No ownership goes to the f***ing coach and says hey how should we handle the affiliate? That's the Assistant Gm's job.

Probably, Probably

 

[The Old Master]

Depends on how restrictive the NTC clause is, how badly Jake wants to leave, and how he's playing at the time, but.....yes, I think it's reasonable IF Jake wants to stay here. Who knows on that, though. He might not want to go down with this sinking ship. Or he might want to see how much he can get on the market. Or go live in LA or Texas or New York or whatever other bigger market.


Maybe read what I wrote before you bitch about it. I didn't say to get Gallant.

oh yes!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean... I don't know? I literally said "if" -- the team's actions or inaction says something is holding them up from doing what basically any team would have done by now. It's called speculation. It's why we're here. We all know that the ownership group is over the moon about Mike Sullivan. It's far fetched but then again I framed it that way.

You... don't think I make things actually happen on the team do you?

Over the moon doesn't describe how horned out they are about Sullivan.

The ownership trusts Sullivan more than it trusts Dubas. Sullivan being the highest paid coach has some blokes believe the ownership isn't keen on firing him even if Sullivan likely wouldn't be without a job for long. Better teams have fired their coach to change something rather than give up assets and keep making moves. For 7 seasons the team has exhausted the trade and free agency route more than any other team with the same coach.

Logic would dictate if you've done all you can to keep making changes for almost a decade to the same dwindling results, a change in leadership is required and they made no bones about it with firing a GM and pushing another to quit as well as firing the assistant coaches.

I mean Occam’s razor suggests that we haven’t made moves because Dubas doesn’t think we need to.

It's likely due to the fact - Dubas knows they should be better with what they have and feels another move doesn't solve the issues the team has but can't make the one move he wants to make.

And by what they have I mean in the NHL and AHL.

 

[Josey Wales]

Placed on NHL waivers today: Rem Pitlick (CHI). Another player that Sullivan Haters said he kept in minors

 

[Andy99]

I doubt it. He’s probably going to either lose Jake for nothing or sign him and we will still suck with him for 8 more years.

You might be right, but God I hope not lol…that would be the height of stupidity…get some young assets

From Dejan today:

• If this thing goes -- OK, keeps going -- south, it won't be Jake Guentzel that's sent out. That's my understanding. There are plenty of other players who can be moved, even it's for the principal purpose of clearing cap space as opposed to hard hockey returns.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You might be right, but God I hope not lol…that would be the height of stupidity…get some young assets

From Dejan today:

• If this thing goes -- OK, keeps going -- south, it won't be Jake Guentzel that's sent out. That's my understanding. There are plenty of other players who can be moved, even it's for the principal purpose of clearing cap space as opposed to hard hockey returns.

With the way this team has been trending the last 2 seasons, why would a player like Jake want to remain with the team? Even when the others signed their deals, it was considered a one off for missing the playoffs last season with a return to the playoffs this year, yet now everyone sees, last year was not a one off and it was the direction the team will be headed towards for a while.

I am not on the fence anymore about it - I want Jake gone. I want to see these f***ing walnuts try to make sense of Sid’s numbers dropping without Guentzel and then ask them oh hey, shouldn’t Crosby change his game like Malkin now that Crosby has the same winger options?