Salary Cap: - Penguins future roster building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1 | Page 8 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Salary Cap: Penguins future roster building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
Looking ahead to the draft, I think it's better to try and pick a D out of this year's crop than offensive talent. The top 7 or so picks are kind of at least consensus-y, but beyond that rankings are all the hell over the place. Supposedly lots of boom/bust picks.

The guy I want is LD Pierre Oliver-Joseph out of Charlottetown. Strong skater, supposedly good hockey IQ, and his skills are supposedly all around. His shortcoming is supposedly that he's not filled out his lanky frame. To me that's an easier issue to fix than skating, smarts, or hands.
 
I really want Trouba although he might not be available.

I'm not sure we have much that would interest the Jets. They have an abundance of talent at forward and their defense is relatively good. More so if Myers can stay healthy. All that's missing is a goalie. We have Murray but I personally wouldn't trade our soon to be franchise goalie for a guy who reportedly wants absurd money. We can't afford another $6-7 million dman.

I'd shoot for Brodie myself. Not sure what it'd take though.
 
I'm not sure we have much that would interest the Jets. They have an abundance of talent at forward and their defense is relatively good. More so if Myers can stay healthy. All that's missing is a goalie. We have Murray but I personally wouldn't trade our soon to be franchise goalie for a guy who reportedly wants absurd money. We can't afford another $6-7 million dman.

I'd shoot for Brodie myself. Not sure what it'd take though.

Probably the same as the price for Trouba.
 
Keep Schultz, Cole and Dumo. Jettison Maatta, let Hainsey and Daley walk, and desperately try to find a way to replace Letang with a guy who isn't gonna miss 25 games a season and the entire playoffs every other year. Before anyone jumps at the opportunity, I realize Letang hasn't missed every other playoffs for his career, but even the most staunch of Letang supporters have to admit that two of the past three is concerning, and the toll of his injuries will only make it worse as times goes on.

Either way, completely dismantle the blueline. If we're gonna be this **** without Letang, stop committing to him as the cornerstone of your defensive corps. If you can't rely on the guy to be healthy, and it's blatantly obvious you can't, move on. There's gotta be a GM out there who will take a chance on him, and pay up big time. If we can, through some series of moves, go from Letang being the cornerstone of our blueline to Trouba, I'd be ecstatic.

Completely fine with the idea - in theory. But how do you replace him even if you can move him for a semi acceptable return? In FA this year you have Shattenkirk as the only RD who's even close to being able to play those minutes. There's certainly a collection of lesser D (Stone, Russell, Del Zotto, Kulikov, Smith, Alzner, etc) but all will get paid (4-5m+) and none are even close to Letang in terms of skill or ability.

Which means you need to either replace him via trade or hope like hell a GM decides that they're willing to move a slightly lesser player for him in hopes that he's healthy for them. Neither of which I really see happening any time soon.

So yeah, while I'm good with the idea that we should probably try to strengthen our blueline so that we're not nearly as dependent on Letang, that's not something that's going to happen overnight. We're probably talking about 2-3 years to get there. And if Letang continues to miss games and have injuries, moving him will only get harder.

As for this summer, I'd probably look to see about moving Maatta for a comparable D who's better, but also a little older. Either work out a swap with LV where they draft player X from another team, and then they take MAF from us, and we trade them Maatta for player X. LV gets the young cost controlled D with 5 years term, we get someone who fits our style better and who's hopefully a little better than Maatta, but also a little older and perhaps more expensive.

To see the effect of missing Letang this year and realizing his importance to the team,.,..why trade a guy who is 90% of Karlsson when healthy?

Because while he's absolutely 90% of Karlsson when healthy, he's only healthy for (at best) 75% of the season. And while I'll agree that him missing the POs against the Rangers the other year isn't a big concern in itself (I agree were were not contenders that year), that happening, and this year happening and I don't see how there's not all sorts of red flags being waived all over regarding his long term health as he hits his early 30s.

I don't know how you could have watched this series and say you'd send out Maatta before Cole or Schultz.

Schultz we simply cannot afford to let walk. Has he been great? No, of course not. But I think all that shows is he's not a #1D, but a solid top 4 guy who needs a true #1D ahead of him to excel. As for Cole, I think his value is meh, and he's cheap and an effective 4/5D who can PK. I'd have nothing against moving him, but I don't see him freeing up the cap space to allow us to afford the D we need/want and he doesn't have the value to bring back said D in a trade. Moving Maatta accomplishes both while also solving the issue of him stylistically not being a fit.

The next time Letang plays a game, he will be trade-able. About 20-25 teams would be interested in him as soon as they know he's healthy enough to play. The dude is REALLY good at hockey.

I agree. But that will be mid season and finding the "right" trade - even if ownership and Rutherford were willing to go there would be next to impossible mid season. Moving a player of Letangs ability - not to mention contract/cap, needs to happen at the draft. Which means (as mentioned before) you're talking about June 2018.
 
Last edited:
Looking ahead to the draft, I think it's better to try and pick a D out of this year's crop than offensive talent. The top 7 or so picks are kind of at least consensus-y, but beyond that rankings are all the hell over the place. Supposedly lots of boom/bust picks.

The guy I want is LD Pierre Oliver-Joseph out of Charlottetown. Strong skater, supposedly good hockey IQ, and his skills are supposedly all around. His shortcoming is supposedly that he's not filled out his lanky frame. To me that's an easier issue to fix than skating, smarts, or hands.

Not really all that different then other years. Currently if we lose this series we draft 25th (at least if my math is correct we do). If we win, we would draft 29-31 depending on how far we go. Given the draft, I'd actually look at seeing if we could drop back a bit and pick up an extra pick (or do whatever else reasonably possible for an extra pick/picks in the 2nd/3rd round). I don't think the talent in the 25-35 range will be all that different then the talent in the 35-65 range. Obviously some difference, but probably not enough to offset getting another decent pick if we can get one somewhere between 45-75.

But I think if these playoffs have shown us anything, it's how absolutely dependent we are on a healthy Letang (which obviously has it's own issues) and that looking for a replacement for him should be extremely high on our priority list. Realistically we will need to draft said replacement.
 
Last edited:
If we were ever going to trade Letang, I think it'd have to be some sort of super blockbuster (maybe to Dallas with Fleury).

Honestly, I think we realistically have to hope that this neck surgery fixes something that's been lingering around for awhile, and that's the last he sees of the effing injury gnome for a few years.
 
I'd trade Schultz before Maatta personally.

Pulling this from the main boards.

Without another quality RD who can QB the PP when Letang is gone, and who is extremely good at moving the puck, we simply cannot afford to lose Schultz. We look at how bad our blueline is right now without Letang... but with Schultz... do some of us remember how bad it was a couple years ago when we didn't have him and he was missing games? Even then we had a decent Niskanen (and were frequently still posting losing records). Now imagine it without someone like that.

The Letang situation is what it is. We can go around and around on it, but the bottom line is that he misses at least 10-20 games a year like clock work and for that span we will absolutely need a defensemen who can cover for him. And unfortunately for us, Schultz is the closest thing we have to that right now, and outside of Shattenkirk, the closest thing that's available even if we went looking at FAs.

We need Justin Schultz next season - even if he costs 5m.
 
Words that would have gotten you committed to an insane asylum two years ago.

2 years ago Schultz was playing for the worst team in the league, hadn't taken that next step and had a whopping 31 points (just shy of his career high of 33 pts the season before). At the time he was a 2nd pairing D who was struggling (yes even then). So no surprise people would laugh if we talked about giving him 5m. Hell people laughed about us giving Edmonton a 3rd for him when we traded for him.

But that was then, and this is now. With the season he's had, even with a crap playoffs, he's still going to get paid as an offensive top 4 RD who can QB the PP. Players like that are in demand, and we need someone like that just as much as half the teams in the league.
 
If you have to overspend in FA to get maybe a lesser D ((Shattenkirk, Alzner) you absolutely do it. You can't have Letang as your most important D anymore. He's not reliable, plus cost too much. The guy is guaranteed to miss at least 30 games a year. It's a business and it's time to look elsewhere.
 
I would love to see JR find a way to steal Parayko from the Blues. That's the team I follow out west mostly and that kid really came out of nowhere and has yet to put the league on notice.

He was also a big guy with a lanky frame but has filled out and learned to skate - if he got a tad bit faster he'd be a force to reckon with.

I'm simply all about find a much more solid 1-2 D combo right now. Sully has these guys playing team defense but there comes a time where one D really needs to elevate. If we can manage to cut ties with Kunitz and Fleury, you're freeing up 10 million in cap space. Knowing certain players need raises, you can still bank on a good chunk of change for next season.
 
i definitively try and trade maatta for trouba, and is maatta is not enough to fetch trouba, i would add a 3 or 4th or include wilson as an add on piece.
 
i definitively try and trade maatta for trouba, and is maatta is not enough to fetch trouba, i would add a 3 or 4th or include wilson as an add on piece.

I know Winnipeg is looking for a LHD, but I think it'd be Maatta + to get Trouba. We need better depth that's for damn sure. Schultz has not been overly impressive either in this series.
 
I know Winnipeg is looking for a LHD, but I think it'd be Maatta + to get Trouba. We need better depth that's for damn sure. Schultz has not been overly impressive either in this series.

Imagine if we just made the right ****ing pick to begin with. How nice this would be...
 
Our defense needs a big makeover for next season. Our defense fuels our offense, and when we are stuck in our own zone, we look incredibly pedestrian.

I have no idea how to go about doing that though.
 
Our defense needs a big makeover for next season. Our defense fuels our offense, and when we are stuck in our own zone, we look incredibly pedestrian.

I have no idea how to go about doing that though.

Free agency maybe. We're going to have a lot of cap space this off season with Maf gone, Kunitz gone (please god), Bonino (maybe? I feel like he might get re-signed tbh), Daley gone.

We could take a run at a Shattenkirk. But I guess that's unlikely since he apparently wanted to go the Rangers. Probably worth a shot though at offering him something.

I suppose we could try the trade market as well but we lack the assets to do anything substantial there.
 
Our defense needs a big makeover for next season. Our defense fuels our offense, and when we are stuck in our own zone, we look incredibly pedestrian.

I have no idea how to go about doing that though.

I don't know does it? People keep saying that, but add Letang in and move everyone else down a little on the depth chart and all of a sudden no one's playing in a situation they shouldn't be in. Schultz slides up into Daley's spot, which I think he can handle, and you look at a cheap puck mover to play with Cole. I really don't see a big problem when everyone is dressed.

Even before Letang's injury we were kicking around ideas to improve the D, and I think those things should still be explored, but I really don't see the dire need to get crazy with it. Adding a great two-way defenseman back into the fold does wonders.
 
I don't know does it? People keep saying that, but add Letang in and move everyone else down a little on the depth chart and all of a sudden no one's playing in a situation they shouldn't be in. Schultz slides up into Daley's spot, which I think he can handle, and you look at a cheap puck mover to play with Cole. I really don't see a big problem when everyone is dressed.

Even before Letang's injury we were kicking around ideas to improve the D, and I think those things should still be explored, but I really don't see the dire need to get crazy with it. Adding a great two-way defenseman back into the fold does wonders.

I think every effort should be made to improve the depth. Just because we're fine when Letang is healthy doesn't mean we should rely on that. I mean to a certain extent most teams are screwed when the #1 goes down and there isn't much anyone can do about it. Imagine the Sens without Karlsson, or the Rangers without Mcdonagh, or the Preds without Subban.

The Caps oddly enough might survive it better than most teams but that's because they kinda have a bunch of #2ds and no clear cut #1. Their whole blueline is good.

Still I think we're a #2 dman short right now. Someone like Shattenkirk (that quality of player) would be ideal. A guy who could eat up some tough minutes and take the pressure off the rest of the blueline in the event that Letang goes down.

Easier said than done to acquire such a player, but we need to try.
 
Pulling this from the main boards.

Without another quality RD who can QB the PP when Letang is gone, and who is extremely good at moving the puck, we simply cannot afford to lose Schultz. We look at how bad our blueline is right now without Letang... but with Schultz... do some of us remember how bad it was a couple years ago when we didn't have him and he was missing games? Even then we had a decent Niskanen (and were frequently still posting losing records). Now imagine it without someone like that.

The Letang situation is what it is. We can go around and around on it, but the bottom line is that he misses at least 10-20 games a year like clock work and for that span we will absolutely need a defensemen who can cover for him. And unfortunately for us, Schultz is the closest thing we have to that right now, and outside of Shattenkirk, the closest thing that's available even if we went looking at FAs.

We need Justin Schultz next season - even if he costs 5m.

Yeah, we need to keep Schultz, nothing available on RHD's in FA. And Shattenkirk would look a lot more like Schultz than Letang, so I don't see the point in that. Especially as Schultz has some room left to get better and will be cheaper.
 
I think every effort should be made to improve the depth. Just because we're fine when Letang is healthy doesn't mean we should rely on that. I mean to a certain extent most teams are screwed when the #1 goes down and there isn't much anyone can do about it. Imagine the Sens without Karlsson, or the Rangers without Mcdonagh, or the Preds without Subban.

The Caps oddly enough might survive it better than most teams but that's because they kinda have a bunch of #2ds and no clear cut #1. Their whole blueline is good.

Still I think we're a #2 dman short right now. Someone like Shattenkirk (that quality of player) would be ideal. A guy who could eat up some tough minutes and take the pressure off the rest of the blueline in the event that Letang goes down.

Easier said than done to acquire such a player, but we need to try.

When speaking in terms of the Cup I totally agree. Thinking about it now I'm not even sure of any pie in the sky possibilities as far as acquiring that good a player. I think our legit trade assets are Maatta, Sprong, Gustavsson, and possibly Jarry or Sheary depending on circumstances. Not a bad list at all, but losing Maatta takes the D backwards a bit while at the same time improving it. Sprong we may desperately need a few years from now. Tough to make a deal in this league.
 
When speaking in terms of the Cup I totally agree. Thinking about it now I'm not even sure of any pie in the sky possibilities as far as acquiring that good a player. I think our legit trade assets are Maatta, Sprong, Gustavsson, and possibly Jarry or Sheary depending on circumstances. Not a bad list at all, but losing Maatta takes the D backwards a bit while at the same time improving it. Sprong we may desperately need a few years from now. Tough to make a deal in this league.

With the emergence of Sheary and Jake (and to a lesser extent Rust - assuming we dont lose him), I"m not against moving Sprong. I dont WANT to move him but Id be ok with it in the right piece(s) coming back.

Im not moving Jarry just yet. Right now, he's a goalie prospect and his value would be pretty meh. My hope is that he backs up Murray next year, puts up some awesome numbers, then we can move him when his value is higher.

Maatta Im ok moving if a similar D that complements the Pens style better comes back. I cant think of one off the top of my head but there has to be a D of comparable age and salary that just fits better.

This is going to be an interesting offseason. For the first time in along time, we have a good chunk of cap space. But we also have a few holes to fill.
 
When speaking in terms of the Cup I totally agree. Thinking about it now I'm not even sure of any pie in the sky possibilities as far as acquiring that good a player. I think our legit trade assets are Maatta, Sprong, Gustavsson, and possibly Jarry or Sheary depending on circumstances. Not a bad list at all, but losing Maatta takes the D backwards a bit while at the same time improving it. Sprong we may desperately need a few years from now. Tough to make a deal in this league.

Yeah you've gotta give to get unfortunately.

The thing is, we looked fine coming into the playoffs. I'm sure JR had every intention to just keep all our assets and continue building. But this playoffs has to have him re-evaluating that stance, no? He can't be pleased with what he's seeing. Sure we'll win plenty of regular season games with this group, but that means nothing if we fold like a tent the minute we go up against playoff competition because our defense such trash. We beat the Jackets in 5 but even that series could have easily gone the other way, and the Caps are making a mockery of our blueline "depth".

So what do we do?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Ad

Ad