Salary Cap: Penguins future roster building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Empoleon8771]

Keep Schultz, Cole and Dumo. Jettison Maatta, let Hainsey and Daley walk, and desperately try to find a way to replace Letang with a guy who isn't gonna miss 25 games a season and the entire playoffs every other year. Before anyone jumps at the opportunity, I realize Letang hasn't missed every other playoffs for his career, but even the most staunch of Letang supporters have to admit that two of the past three is concerning, and the toll of his injuries will only make it worse as times goes on.

Either way, completely dismantle the blueline. If we're gonna be this **** without Letang, stop committing to him as the cornerstone of your defensive corps. If you can't rely on the guy to be healthy, and it's blatantly obvious you can't, move on. There's gotta be a GM out there who will take a chance on him, and pay up big time. If we can, through some series of moves, go from Letang being the cornerstone of our blueline to Trouba, I'd be ecstatic.

I don't know how you could have watched this series and say you'd send out Maatta before Cole or Schultz.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't know how you could have watched this series and say you'd send out Maatta before Cole or Schultz.

Cole's been miles ahead of Maatta, imo. Not that Cole's exactly been Lidstrom out there, but Maatta's best play through two rounds amounts to "Hey, he sorta looks like an NHLer." Cole's had some very good games, and he's the only player on our backend who will throw some muscle around, particularly around the net and along the boards.

Schultz has been fantastic this year, and while he's struggled in the playoffs pretty often, he's gotta be a fixture on this team's 2nd pairing moving forward.

Maatta skates like Craig Adams, and it have dramatic effect on his positioning, and decisions with the puck. Not to mention the fact that he's a lock to get walked like 3 times a game. A real shame, because he looked so damn promising in his rookie year, but he's been in a precipitous fall since. I realize and appreciate that injuries and illness have played a factor, but enough's enough.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Dress Rowney and put Sid at D.

 

[Penske]

Should the Penguins look to dangle Sheary for D help at this point? Maatta is the only guy that doesn't look like a train wreck right now.

Definitely see what's available.

I'd add Maatta and see if we could make a deal for Trouba.

Then trade Schultz for a lefty.

 

[Nakawick]

Definitely see what's available.

I'd add Maatta and see if we could make a deal for Trouba.

Then trade Schultz for a lefty.

Why not package Maatta for a LHD like Brodie and keep Schultz? MAF and Maatta for Brodie maybe.
Brodie Letang and Cole/Dumo Schultz as the top 4 with Cole/Dumo on the 3rd pair.

 

[Penske]

Why not package Maatta for a LHD like Brodie and keep Schultz? MAF and Maatta for Brodie maybe.
Brodie Letang and Cole/Dumo Schultz as the top 4 with Cole/Dumo on the 3rd pair.

I really want Trouba although he might not be available.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Why not package Maatta for a LHD like Brodie and keep Schultz? MAF and Maatta for Brodie maybe.
Brodie Letang and Cole/Dumo Schultz as the top 4 with Cole/Dumo on the 3rd pair.

I'm game. I doubt Calgary is, but something like that would be great.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Stop putting your faith in a guy who misses 25 games with regularity, and has missed two of the last three playoffs with serious injury.

If we have no choice, fine. We're ****ed. But to simply move forward with Letang as the linchpin of our blueline with all of his mounting injury woes is ****ing stupid. At least explore the options. If we can somehow get Trouba (the guy we should've ****ing drafted in the first place), that would be a godsend.

 

[Penske]

Stop putting your faith in a guy who misses 25 games with regularity, and has missed two of the last three playoffs with serious injury.

If we have no choice, fine. We're ****ed. But to simply move forward with Letang as the linchpin of our blueline with all of his mounting injury woes is ****ing stupid. At least explore the options. If we can somehow get Trouba (the guy we should've ****ing drafted in the first place), that would be a godsend.

If we want to trade Letang that likely doesn't happen until the summer of 18.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

If we want to trade Letang that likely doesn't happen until the summer of 18.

I don't think it's even gonna be possible, to be honest. I'm just sick and tired of having the guy's absence be a major catalyst for this team's failures.

 

[Penske]

I don't think it's even gonna be possible, to be honest. I'm just sick and tired of having the guy's absence be a major catalyst for this team's failures.

This is the first time it's really affected us though. He missed the playoffs once before but we weren't in contention for the cup that year.

 

[Nakawick]

Stop putting your faith in a guy who misses 25 games with regularity, and has missed two of the last three playoffs with serious injury.

If we have no choice, fine. We're ****ed. But to simply move forward with Letang as the linchpin of our blueline with all of his mounting injury woes is ****ing stupid. At least explore the options. If we can somehow get Trouba (the guy we should've ****ing drafted in the first place), that would be a godsend.

Would it not make more sense to being in a top pair LHD in the event that we do get a healthy Letang for another one or two playoffs?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm not saying I want an all out OFD, but it would be nice to have another option that can get point shots through that aren't muffins and have a chance to bury a grade A chance.

Maatta used to be that guy, but he's far from the offensive threat he was in his first 2 seasons. Right now he's a shutdown guy, not all that dissimilar to Hainsey. Dumo has the wheels and passing ability in transition, but he can't be your best guy at that role when Letang goes down. Daley looks to be done or is in serious need of rehab time.

This conversation reminds me of Gary Agnew's idiotic "you can't dress six Kris Letangs" in defense of Rob Scuderi playing a key role on the blueline.

Agnew would love this defense corps.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I see two missed playoffs in his career too. But I also see two of the last three, with serious, career-threatening injuries mounting meanwhile.

Nothing about Letang's game (the dude plays every shift like we're down by a goal with 3 minutes left), positioning, composure, hockey IQ, or running list of injuries inspire any sort of confidence in me that the guy will suddenly find some magic and overcome the injury woes.

I don't care if he missed 50 regular season games a year. I really don't. And he's no more likely to miss the playoffs next year as he has been any other year.

I want Kessel to sit him down and teach him how to stay healthy though

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't think it's even gonna be possible, to be honest. I'm just sick and tired of having the guy's absence be a major catalyst for this team's failures.

The next time Letang plays a game, he will be trade-able. About 20-25 teams would be interested in him as soon as they know he's healthy enough to play. The dude is REALLY good at hockey.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

This is the first time it's really affected us though. He missed the playoffs once before but we weren't in contention for the cup that year.

You don't think Letang missing the playoffs a couple years ago was an issue? Sure, we weren't favorites by a long shot but to say it didn't affect us is not something I can agree with. Losing a player of Letang's caliber, especially one the entire blueline (and with it the transition game) relies upon is a huge blow to the team's chances.

And that's exactly why I would explore the options this summer to move on. This team's in shambles with Letang, their #1 d-man, on the shelf. The frequency of that happening, coupled with the severity of the injuries, is the reason I'm even discussing this.

If he was healthy, it wouldn't even be a topic of discussion. But he's not, and I don't think he will be moving forward either.

Would it not make more sense to being in a top pair LHD in the event that we do get a healthy Letang for another one or two playoffs?

Sure, assuming Letang's going to be healthy moving forward. I just have zero confidence in that being the case as he gets older and the list of serious injuries continues to pile up. The latest being a neck injury that has the potential to really alter Letang's ability moving forward if things don't go perfectly.

 

[Nakawick]

To see the effect of missing Letang this year and realizing his importance to the team,.,..why trade a guy who is 90% of Karlsson when healthy?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't care if he missed 50 regular season games a year. I really don't. And he's no more likely to miss the playoffs next year as he has been any other year.

I want Kessel to sit him down and teach him how to stay healthy though

Honestly, if Letang could find a way to get it into his addled brain that he doesn't need to play every single shift like we're down by a goal with three minutes left in the Cup Finals, he'd be so much better off. But the guy has one speed, and that's pedal to the floor, complete disregard for anything and everything--including his own body/health. He's just a complete idiot out there with the way he consistently puts himself into vulnerable positions and lays it all out on the line.

To be fair, I don't think he'd be nearly as good without that mindset either. So it's a double-edged sword.

To see the effect of missing Letang this year and realizing his importance to the team,.,..why trade a guy who is 90% of Karlsson when healthy?

I don't understand how many times it needs to be explained. I'll give it one more shot, for you.

That bolded part, right there, that's the reason. There's far more depth to it than those two words, which I've been over a bunch and don't really care to type out again. But that's the gist of the discussion.

 

[Nakawick]

Honestly, if Letang could find a way to get it into his addled brain that he doesn't need to play every single shift like we're down by a goal with three minutes left in the Cup Finals, he'd be so much better off. But the guy has one speed, and that's pedal to the floor, complete disregard for anything and everything--including his own body/health. He's just a complete idiot out there with the way he consistently puts himself into vulnerable positions and lays it all out on the line.

To be fair, I don't think he'd be nearly as good without that mindset either. So it's a double-edged sword.



I don't understand how many times it needs to be explained. I'll give it one more shot, for you.

That bolded part, right there, that's the reason. There's far more depth to it than those two words, which I've been over a bunch and don't really care to type out again. But that's the gist of the discussion.

Ok, but we haven't addressed the 90% of Karlsson when healthy. That is a lot of upside.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Honestly, if Letang could find a way to get it into his addled brain that he doesn't need to play every single shift like we're down by a goal with three minutes left in the Cup Finals, he'd be so much better off. But the guy has one speed, and that's pedal to the floor, complete disregard for anything and everything--including his own body/health. He's just a complete idiot out there with the way he consistently puts himself into vulnerable positions and lays it all out on the line.

To be fair, I don't think he'd be nearly as good without that mindset either. So it's a double-edged sword.

Neither is Kessel, but he turns it on in the playoffs. If Letang and Geno could play at 85% all year then turn it on in the playoffs, I would be so happy.

Either way, I don't see either of these 2 in 3 missed playoffs indicating he's any more likely to miss the playoffs as he was in any other season. Sure, it could happen. And it's more likely for him than most of our team. But he probably won't miss next playoffs. And honestly, I think we have a better chance to win another Cup with Sid and Geno with Letang missing every other playoffs than we would have if we got rid of Letang.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We need *more* defensemen that can move the puck and join the rush, not *less*.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Ok, but we haven't addressed the 90% of Karlsson when healthy. That is a lot of upside.

It's addressing itself with what you're seeing in his absence. It is a complete non-factor how good Letang is, and he is very good, if he is not healthy, dressed, and playing. It really just boils down to that. The best player in the world doesn't matter if he's not on the ice, and with Letang's history with injury, his penchant for putting himself in dangerous spots resulting in more injury, and the severity and potential longevity of his injuries, I think it's time to explore other options for building this blueline.

I'll take a downgrade going from Letang to Trouba as our blueline cornerstone if it means the linchpin of our defensive corps isn't on the wrong side of 30 with a mounting list of severe injuries to his name, potentially missing a ton of time and/or the entirety of the playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It's addressing itself with what you're seeing in his absence. It is a complete non-factor how good Letang is, and he is very good, if he is not healthy, dressed, and playing. It really just boils down to that. The best player in the world doesn't matter if he's not on the ice, and with Letang's history with injury, his penchant for putting himself in dangerous spots resulting in more injury, and the severity and potential longevity of his injuries, I think it's time to explore other options for building this blueline.

I'll take a downgrade going from Letang to Trouba as our blueline cornerstone if it means the linchpin of our defensive corps isn't on the wrong side of 30 with a mounting list of severe injuries to his name, potentially missing a ton of time and/or the entirety of the playoffs.

And you'd give up a franchise goalie to make that downgrade on D? Because that's the only piece we have to get Trouba.

There is just no way our team gets anything but worse by trading Letang and trying to replace him. Sure, it will be a steadier team from year to year. But you win Cups by maximizing your up years, not by minimizing your down years. I would love Trouba, but he's not even close to as good as Letang.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

And you'd give up a franchise goalie to make that downgrade on D?

There is just no way our team gets anything but worse by trading Letang and trying to replace him. Sure, it will be a steadier team from year to year. But you win Cups by maximizing your up years, not by minimizing your down years.

If Murray's gotta be the guy to get Trouba, yeah, maybe. I'd try to land Trouba for Maatta+Sheary first, maybe toss in a pick or prospect and then move Letang for a significant return.

I don't want to move Murray. Let me be abundantly clear, since everyone seems to take phantom ideas and run with them. But, if moving Murray for a new #1 defenseman who is 7 years younger with a boatload of upside on top of an already seriously impressive game is what needs to be done, I'd think real hard about it.

You win Cups by attempting to ensure your down years aren't due to things you can control. Letang's mounting injury history says to me he's not a guy you can rely on all the time. If you can land a replacement, and then flip Letang, you do it in my opinion. We've all seen what this team can do with a healthy blueline, and we've all seen what happens when Letang's out. I just think that there's enough evidence pointing to the fact that Letang's injury history has proven he's unreliable, and it's only gonna get worse as the injuries continue to pile up and he gets older.

But it's late and I'm beat. I appreciate you actually discussing **** without acting like a goddamn teenager, by the way. People seem to forget that all this is just meaningless discussion on a message board, and they love to get irrationally offended and take things to a personal level. We may not ever agree, nor even get close, but at least there's civil discussion.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If Murray's gotta be the guy to get Trouba, yeah, maybe. I'd try to land Trouba for Maatta+Sheary first, maybe toss in a pick or prospect and then move Letang for a significant return.

I don't want to move Murray. Let me be abundantly clear, since everyone seems to take phantom ideas and run with them. But, if moving Murray for a new #1 defenseman who is 7 years younger with a boatload of upside on top of an already seriously impressive game is what needs to be done, I'd think real hard about it.

You win Cups by attempting to ensure your down years aren't due to things you can control. Letang's mounting injury history says to me he's not a guy you can rely on all the time. If you can land a replacement, and then flip Letang, you do it in my opinion. We've all seen what this team can do with a healthy blueline, and we've all seen what happens when Letang's out. I just think that there's enough evidence pointing to the fact that Letang's injury history has proven he's unreliable, and it's only gonna get worse as the injuries continue to pile up and he gets older.

But it's late and I'm beat. I appreciate you actually discussing **** without acting like a goddamn teenager, by the way. People seem to forget that all this is just meaningless discussion on a message board, and they love to get irrationally offended and take things to a personal level. We may not ever agree, nor even get close, but at least there's civil discussion.

Let me stop you at the bold. Which #1 defenseman are you talking about? Because Trouba isn't a #1 defenseman. At least not yet. Maybe some day. But right now Letang is worlds better than Trouba. (I responded to this part before reading you thanking me for actually discussing, but I'm leaving it anyway )

I agree that if you can replace him and flip him it's a good idea. But that won't be an option due to his injury history. And trading Letang AND Murray to do it would be an awful awful move imo. One of the only things more important than a #1 D is a goalie. So trading him for a D downgrade just doesn't work imo.

And the rest, we simply disagree on how likely Letang is to miss games when it matters. That's where we really disagree here. Well that and on how good Trouba is I guess. I want him to upgrade Maatta's role on the 2nd pairing and to be a better fill-in when Letang is hurt, not to be on our top pairing as Letang's replacement.

And yes, thanks for actually discussing. It's also time for me to pass out. Here's hoping to a big game 7, a Maatta+Sheary for Trouba deal, and a healthy Letang going forward.