Salary Cap: Penguins future roster building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Jacob]

Yeah I think the guys that are sucking right now, like Sheary and Schultz, might just be banged up. Well, I'm certain Sheary is playing with at least one injury, and in Schultz's case him not being able to hide behind Letang is probably another factor.

Schultz is still young enough to get better, and even if he doesn't 4x5 or 5x5 is a fair deal for what he brings.

People are talking about how we maybe should've given Niskanen an extension when we could. Well, Schultz is basically the new Niskanen.

 

[Nakawick]

I think we should let all of the UFA's walk as it would be a good time to refresh the roster with some of the older players moving on. We need to say hungry and fresh.

If MAF will waive to be exposed to LV, then I would go that route instead of trading him before the expansion draft, unless the return was strong. If MAF doesn't get taken then I would try to move him. If he is moved we will need a capable back up.

I think the biggest hole to fill will be a 3c, I would like to land someone in a trade rather than sign a FA. Bones is due to get paid and I prefer not to sign him for any amount of term. Hanzal as a FA interests me but he will likely be getting a big contract from someone. Thornton and Boyle on a short contract would be nice, but I don't want to depend on either of those guys as a 3c, assuming Thornton would even come here and Boyle may be looking for a retirement contract. Eakin intrigues me from Dallas and could potentially come in a MAF deal, but I don't know if he has the offense, although he should be entering his prime and has a contract we could fit. Duchene would still be the one I would explore every option to snag.

Depending on how the expansion draft and the MAF situation and the 3c situation unfold, we will need to address our D. We could lose one in the draft and/or trade one. Letang's health is a concern and how he looks after his surgery will be something we won't know until likely Christmas. We should be prepared to sign a FA dman. Smith, Alzner, or someone capable of playing a top 4 role, especially if we trade Maatta or Dumo and lose Cole in the expansion draft. We will almost certainly be trying to give one of our D projects a shot at a full time spot, Pouliot, Corrado, etc.

 

[Nakawick]

I'd still do it without hesitation

Depending on the expansion draft and the MAF situation, I could be OK with arbitration with Schultz if he wants a big contract. He is clearly a 2nd pair RD but is good on the PP, a bit like Shattenkirk in that regard. I was thinking about this the other day, if Shattenkirk would sign here at a reasonable deal then we have the option of moving Schultz, but I doubt that would be realistic.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Keeping both MAF/MM going into next year is a fireable offense. Beyond stupid to do that.

I don't think you throw all of the UFA's away but just throw them into your need/want rankings after the ED fallout is done.

Maybe you have C's rated higher than Bones you'd like to acquire for a similar price or lower.
Same thing with Daley.
Same thing with a Hainsey if you lose a Cole or Maatta to LV for example.

Just as an example, if other C's sign on elsewhere and Bones is the best option left...
Same thing for the Daley's and Hainsey's.
You also have to consider whats bubbling up from WB.

 

[Nakawick]

Yeah, I would not flat out refuse to bring any of the UFA's back, particularly one of the D on a short term deal, but I would rather bring in someone younger and try and salvage one of the WBS guys, then revisit at the deadline after we see Letang back in action.

But if we start the year with Letang, Schultz, Maatta, Dumo and Cole, and then sign one of Daley or Hainsey, we are basically the same D as this year (with Letang back of course).

I think someone is going to offer Bones 15-20 million. I don't see how he could turn that down given it will be potentially his only big contract of his career.

 

[T1K]

Depending on the expansion draft and the MAF situation, I could be OK with arbitration with Schultz if he wants a big contract. He is clearly a 2nd pair RD but is good on the PP, a bit like Shattenkirk in that regard. I was thinking about this the other day, if Shattenkirk would sign here at a reasonable deal then we have the option of moving Schultz, but I doubt that would be realistic.

I don't view Shattenkirk as a big enough upgrade on Schultz to rationalize the extra cap he'd take up. He's not a #1, IMO. Best case he's a middle pairing d man here because of Letang also being a RHD. Obviously Letang will miss time and that's the advantage of signing him instead of Schultz because he'd fair better in the top pairing role than Schultz would. That said, I feel that he's an excessive addition. If he were a LHD it would be a different story.

 

[Nakawick]

I don't view Shattenkirk as a big enough upgrade on Schultz to rationalize the extra cap he'd take up. He's not a #1, IMO. Best case he's a middle pairing d man here because of Letang also being a RHD. Obviously Letang will miss time and that's the advantage of signing him instead of Schultz because he'd fair better in the top pairing role than Schultz would. That said, I feel that he's an excessive addition. If he were a LHD it would be a different story.

That is it, it depends on what Shattenkirk would cost vs what Schultz would cost. Signing Shattenkirk is free and allows us to trade Schultz for other assets. From a purely asset management standpoint it would be in our best interest, assuming the diference in cap hit would be around 1 mil. But I don't think that is going to happen though.

 

[T1K]

That is it, it depends on what Shattenkirk would cost vs what Schultz would cost. Signing Shattenkirk is free and allows us to trade Schultz for other assets. From a purely asset management standpoint it would be in our best interest, assuming the diference in cap hit would be around 1 mil. But I don't think that is going to happen though.

If I had to guesstimate I'd say Schultz gets no more than 6 mil, Shattenkirk could get upwards of 7-7.5 on the open market. In all likelihood Schultz gets something closer to 5.5 and Shattenkirk gets something closer to 6.5. It's tough to say, it's worth exploring for sure, but if Shattenkirk would carry a cap hit of 1-1.5 mil more than Schultz then I'd rather just stick with Schultz.

Trading the rights to an unsigned Schultz isn't overly valuable to the point where I'd want to take on extra cap.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I believe Schultz will come in under 5.
4.8 or 4.9 maybe.

And i deffo keep him on here. Shatty either takes less to play here with Tang and JS or we move on to other things.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah I think the guys that are sucking right now, like Sheary and Schultz, might just be banged up. Well, I'm certain Sheary is playing with at least one injury, and in Schultz's case him not being able to hide behind Letang is probably another factor.

Schultz is still young enough to get better, and even if he doesn't 4x5 or 5x5 is a fair deal for what he brings.

People are talking about how we maybe should've given Niskanen an extension when we could. Well, Schultz is basically the new Niskanen.

My concern with Schultz is with his defensive play. He looks really, really bad these playoffs in the defensive zone. I think he'll help offensively, but he'll always need to be sheltered defensively.

Niskanen, by contrast, is actually good defensively. So signing him to a long term deal is less of a risk because even if he never matches that career year he had (and he hasn't, numbers-wise), he's still dependable enough as a two-way guy.

Schultz essentially has to match this year's offense because his defense isn't good enough to offset less than a 40 point or so season at that cost.

 

[Riptide]

Is everyone still wanting to sign Schultz to a 5x5 type of deal? This series kinda of shows why I hesitate to do that. Even though his game has come a long way, he still has some big holes for a #2-3 guy. That said, he's probably the best we can do as a backup option to Letang without spending significant assets to acquire someone better.

Absolutely without a doubt.

I think what this series is showing is that Schultz is not a #1D. He's playing 20:30 a night (slightly behind Dumoulin and Hainsey). The TOI is fine, but the issue is (in my mind) less of a match up issue and more the fact that he's our only "go to" D. Daley has been meh (despite playing 18:30 a night) and no one else comes close to those two offensively.

What some seem to be forgetting is that this entire blueline is built with the idea that Letang or someone extremely similar is there to be that go to guy. The guy we lean on offensively, to chew up big minutes (maybe not 30, but 25+) and to take the match's up and still excel in the transition game. Schultz is a great compliment to Letang as a second pairing RD, but he's not a replacement. Especially when the guy we're using to back fill for Schulz isn't even playing as well as Schultz.

I mean look at our top four. Outside of Letang, you have Schultz or Dumoulin who when they're on their games are maybe a #2D, otherwise at best you have a collection of good #3/4 D. Which is fine - when you have a legit #1D there to insulate them and to do all the heavy lifting and take on those matchup's. But when he's not there, it shouldn't be a surprise that they're going to struggle a little when no one really steps up their game. Don't forget that this is a 7 game series where teams get to game plan the **** out of players and know all their weaknesses and will do everything possible to exploit those. Not to mention that Washington is a very good hockey team - their playoff struggles aside. So while the play of Schultz doesn't really surprise me, neither does it change my opinion on how to handle him this summer.

Besides... what other option do we have? Letang historically misses at least 10-20 games a year - and that was before having neck surgery. Which means we need someone who's capable of stepping up to try and cover that. Schultz is a poor substitute, but he's significantly better then anyone else we have internally, and at least as good as any FA options - not to mention almost certainly cheaper.

 

[Riptide]

I think the biggest hole to fill will be a 3c, I would like to land someone in a trade rather than sign a FA. Bones is due to get paid and I prefer not to sign him for any amount of term. Hanzal as a FA interests me but he will likely be getting a big contract from someone. Thornton and Boyle on a short contract would be nice, but I don't want to depend on either of those guys as a 3c, assuming Thornton would even come here and Boyle may be looking for a retirement contract. Eakin intrigues me from Dallas and could potentially come in a MAF deal, but I don't know if he has the offense, although he should be entering his prime and has a contract we could fit. Duchene would still be the one I would explore every option to snag.

St Louis has 70m already committed to the cap next year and still needs to sign Parayko - and things will be even tighter for them the following summer with mo major contracts coming off the books. I would be calling them and trying to get Sobotka as hard as possible. Not sure I'd give up our 2017 1st, but I'd definitely move our 18 2nd+. And honestly, if push came to shove I probably would move the 1st. The guy is a possession monster and an ace in the circle, and they have big money already committed to 3 other centers.

Depending on how the expansion draft and the MAF situation and the 3c situation unfold, we will need to address our D. We could lose one in the draft and/or trade one. Letang's health is a concern and how he looks after his surgery will be something we won't know until likely Christmas. We should be prepared to sign a FA dman. Smith, Alzner, or someone capable of playing a top 4 role, especially if we trade Maatta or Dumo and lose Cole in the expansion draft. We will almost certainly be trying to give one of our D projects a shot at a full time spot, Pouliot, Corrado, etc.

Cap issues aside (which are there and real when talking about a 3.5m+ defenseman), unless we lose a D to the ED, I don't think we'll have the roster room to give a FA D the role/minutes that they'd probably want. Because if we do not lose someone, we're talking about them being a #5/6D for us. If we do lose someone, then sure you're talking about being a 4/5D. Either way I see us having a hard time affording that unless we get someone who specifically sighs a reclamation type contract, really wants to come here or who's underrated as hell and breaks out (like JS this year). But I think most of the top D - not to mention all the popular names tossed out by us will end up getting a lot more then we'd be comfortable giving them. Blueliners are going to be in very high demand this summer, and FA D will get paid very well - even if last year wasn't the best for them.

 

[Riptide]

I could be OK with arbitration with Schultz if he wants a big contract.

What do you think he'd get in arbitration? Keep in mind that any contract that bought a UFA year is not allowed to be used as a comparable. Which means none of those long contracts players like Maatta signed can be used.

The very first example I'd give if I was his agent would be Stone (4m), Del Zotto (3.875m) and Krug (2nd contract - 3.4m). And then I'd point out that he out produced ALL of them by a decent margin. Schultz is going to get 5m. The question is whether we're going to give it to him with no/little term and then have to deal with replacing him in 1-3 years (which will be hard considering we have no one in the system who's even remotely close to being as good as him). Or we suck it up and give him 4-6 years and then just move on and deal with his limitations.

Good offensive defensemen are hard to find and they're usually expensive. RD who can QB the PP even more so. Even if he regresses a little and goes to being a #2PPQB and a 35-45pt D. At 5m we could move him fairly easily. Middle pairing D usually get around 4.5-5.5m. So I have zero issues giving that to Schultz to ensure that we have the best team possible over the next 3-5 years.

 

[JTG]

I could see Schultz taking a 3 year deal for 4.5m. That gives us him at a solid number, and he's breaking the bank at 30 if all goes well.

 

[billybudd]

I could live with Hainsey on a cheap one year deal. We really don't have any D on the way and, while I don't really have anything specifically negative to say about Ruhwedel, I'm not as confident that he's anything more than a 7 as many people are.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I'm also wondering now what JR was looking so hard at in BUF before the deadline.
If it was now FA's Kulkov or Franson(highly likely), they may be something he targets this summer if it comes to that.
I do think JR will try and do a hockey trade to beef up the D before going to FA'y.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Realistically speaking...

If this team is looking at bringing one of the UFA's on Defense back, we're still in trouble because those guys had the fire lit under them to play well for a contender, but you don't want to be stuck with that for a full season.

I also think Hainsey would likely retire at the end of the season as well as Cullen and potentially Streit unless the Penguins called them and only them. Hainsey is 36, Streit is 38 going on 39 in December, Cullen is 40...and Daley is 33 later in the year. Defense you go with the core of: Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz, and Cole. Assuming you lose one, likely Cole or another is moved, that's not a bad group to have even if you lose 2.

As for Fleury/Murray, yeah you move Fluery regardless of the playoffs this year and Murray's supposed injury concerns. I just would look at options for a solid back-up to play behind Murray that is capable of playing 40+ games a season. Forwards, we're set, it's just that 3C and 4C slots that you concern yourself with, do you roll with Rowney as the 4C?

I'd really like Bennett from the Flames for Fleury.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm also wondering now what JR was looking so hard at in BUF before the deadline.
If it was now FA's Kulkov or Franson(highly likely), they may be something he targets this summer if it comes to that.
I do think JR will try and do a hockey trade to beef up the D before going to FA'y.

It could be a bunch of things really, as much as people hate it, it could be Kane as well as Girgensons, Franson, and Kulikov.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Realistically speaking...

If this team is looking at bringing one of the UFA's on Defense back, we're still in trouble because those guys had the fire lit under them to play well for a contender, but you don't want to be stuck with that for a full season.

I also think Hainsey would likely retire at the end of the season as well as Cullen and potentially Streit unless the Penguins called them and only them. Hainsey is 36, Streit is 38 going on 39 in December, Cullen is 40...and Daley is 33 later in the year. Defense you go with the core of: Letang, Dumoulin, Maatta, Schultz, and Cole. Assuming you lose one, likely Cole or another is moved, that's not a bad group to have even if you lose 2.

As for Fleury/Murray, yeah you move Fluery regardless of the playoffs this year and Murray's supposed injury concerns. I just would look at options for a solid back-up to play behind Murray that is capable of playing 40+ games a season. Forwards, we're set, it's just that 3C and 4C slots that you concern yourself with, do you roll with Rowney as the 4C?

I'd really like Bennett from the Flames for Fleury.

I don't think Hainsey will retire if someone is willing to give him a paycheck. I'm fine with keeping him but I'd let him test the market and hopefully he gets no notable offers and we get him for $1-2 million. If not I'd just find someone else cheap. I'm definitely willing to let go of Daley. I thought he was better than some that thought he was mediocre this year, but regardless he's in the midst of losing that little bit of offensive touch and is just kind of an experienced #4-5 D with no frills. I think we can do better. Streit is just getting too old. Judging by how he meshed so well so early, that would've been a fantastic find about five years ago.

I still think Fleury gets bought out despite all the theories/logic chains being bandied about. It's the most likely scenario to me barring someone that can take him for a draft pick. I actually think the 3C is a tough hole to fill if we don't re-sign Bonino but I've yammered on about that enough. Rowney at 4C may very well be a reality. We could do worse but could maybe do better.

 

[JTG]

I honestly love the way Hainsey plays. I think he's a perfect bottom pairing guy, and if he'd want to keep coming back on 1 year deals like Cullen, I'd be more than happy to have him.

 

[BHD]

Yeah I think the guys that are sucking right now, like Sheary and Schultz, might just be banged up. Well, I'm certain Sheary is playing with at least one injury, and in Schultz's case him not being able to hide behind Letang is probably another factor.

Schultz is still young enough to get better, and even if he doesn't 4x5 or 5x5 is a fair deal for what he brings.

People are talking about how we maybe should've given Niskanen an extension when we could. Well, Schultz is basically the new Niskanen.

Contracts and salary aside, I wish Niskanen was still a Penguin. He's been good for the Caps since joining them, and has been their best dman in these playoffs. Plus, he would fit this team like a glove.

 

[JTG]

Contracts and salary aside, I wish Niskanen was still a Penguin. He's been good for the Caps since joining them, and has been their best dman in these playoffs. Plus, he would fit this team like a glove.

The thing I have always liked about Niskanen is he is a willing participant. He never shied away from hits - giving or receiving. He's a good defenseman. He got paid that the top of his bracket though, and I'm not so sure I would want him on that kind of term and money.

I think what we see with Schultz this offseason is the correct way to go. 3-4 year deal.

 

[Shady Machine]

Why does anyone want Shattenkirk over Schultz? Are we watching the same series? Shatty is like their 5th or 6th Dman right now. Yeah it's one series, but with the competition going after him and UFA + his performance vs Schultz as RFA and already loving Pittsburgh, it doesn't make any sense to me to pursue him over Schultz.

 

[Shady Machine]

Contracts and salary aside, I wish Niskanen was still a Penguin. He's been good for the Caps since joining them, and has been their best dman in these playoffs. Plus, he would fit this team like a glove.

He's also good at cross checking people in the upper back

 

[Asuna]

Why does anyone want Shattenkirk over Schultz? Are we watching the same series? Shatty is like their 5th or 6th Dman right now. Yeah it's one series, but with the competition going after him and UFA + his performance vs Schultz as RFA and already loving Pittsburgh, it doesn't make any sense to me to pursue him over Schultz.

he's mostly been playing with orpik too, who ****ing sucks.

but yeah mostly i agree. he's been pretty underwhelming. gonna be overpaid for sure