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Salary Cap: Penguins future roster building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

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Asuna said:
he's mostly been playing with orpik too, who ****ing sucks.

but yeah mostly i agree. he's been pretty underwhelming. gonna be overpaid for sure
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He's been playing with Orpik because Trotz thinks he belong on their 3rd pairing.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be great here (although I don't think it's a slam dunk), but for the cost to acquire, no thanks.
 
Shady Machine said:
He's been playing with Orpik because Trotz thinks he belong on their 3rd pairing.

I'm not saying he wouldn't be great here (although I don't think it's a slam dunk), but for the cost to acquire, no thanks.
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my point is, playing with orpik will drag that pairing down, and make any defender look worse.
 
I think Shattenkirk is a good player having a fairly bad series, but he still has an OT goal and seems to have the puck a lot. This series hasn't endeared me to him though. He's going to get grossly overpaid anyways so whatever.

I don't think Orpik has been that good but to act like he's been a turd on skates is just kinda ridiculous. If the Penguins have been getting sustained pressure by consistently exploiting a certain matchup this series, I've yet to see it, so I don't know how bad he could possibly be. In before username bias.
 
Ogrezilla said:
Shattenkirk is a number 3 who is going to be payed like a number 1. I'm not interested considering what he'll cost.
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I'm not even sure he's a number 3. If someone on the top pair goes down, I'm not sure I'd want Shattenkirk in my top pair, ever. I sort of feel the same way about Schultz. Great niche defenseman, but he's probably not someone you want carrying the load of the defense for the long term.

I will also say, I thoroughly enjoy the defensive structure we have right now. In an interview last series, Ian Cole sort of alluded to the fact that with the guys they have they don't really seek matchups. You get into a flow, and it's 6 guys, and you just let things roll. I think the comfort in the flow these 6 guys have right now is pretty evident, as I think they have outplayed expectations. All of the guys are playing around 28 shifts a game.
 
Shady Machine said:
And in this series he's a number 5.
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Indeed. I do agree that part of the issue is playing with Orpik. I put Shattenkirk about the same level as Schultz, just better on the PP.
JTG said:
I'm not even sure he's a number 3. If someone on the top pair goes down, I'm not sure I'd want Shattenkirk in my top pair, ever. I sort of feel the same way about Schultz. Great niche defenseman, but he's probably not someone you want carrying the load of the defense for the long term.
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I'd say Schultz is a good comparable. Both are firmly 2nd pairing guys who really shouldn't be moved up.

JTG said:
I will also say, I thoroughly enjoy the defensive structure we have right now. In an interview last series, Ian Cole sort of alluded to the fact that with the guys they have they don't really seek matchups. You get into a flow, and it's 6 guys, and you just let things roll. I think the comfort in the flow these 6 guys have right now is pretty evident, as I think they have outplayed expectations. All of the guys are playing around 28 shifts a game.
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We basically have three 2nd pairings. So while it sucks that none of them are 1st pairing caliber, it's nice that none are 3rd pairing caliber. We couldn't effectively insulate a pairing if we needed to with this group, so it's good that we don't have to. That's a huge part of what Letang brings: he can play half of your #6 d-man's shifts basically.
 
JTG said:
I'm not even sure he's a number 3. If someone on the top pair goes down, I'm not sure I'd want Shattenkirk in my top pair, ever. I sort of feel the same way about Schultz. Great niche defenseman, but he's probably not someone you want carrying the load of the defense for the long term.

I will also say, I thoroughly enjoy the defensive structure we have right now. In an interview last series, Ian Cole sort of alluded to the fact that with the guys they have they don't really seek matchups. You get into a flow, and it's 6 guys, and you just let things roll. I think the comfort in the flow these 6 guys have right now is pretty evident, as I think they have outplayed expectations. All of the guys are playing around 28 shifts a game.
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This group of 6 is good at defending but NOT good at transition outside of Dumo and Schultz (well Daley, but he's now injured and isn't the Daley he used to be). I've been impressed with them for sure, but this is not a group of 6 you intentionally build to win in this NHL.

I agree that Shattenkirk isn't worth the money, but you have to have guys like him or Schultz in today's game. I'd say we need one more Schultz/Shatty type even with Letang, but those are expensive and hard to come by.

It's really a shame Pouliot sucks because he's the exact type of player you need to plug into the lineup when Letang goes out. Not putting it all on him, but damn what a disappointment he's been. It's really telling when no one here is even suggesting him as an option with Daley out.
 
Shady Machine said:
This group of 6 is good at defending but NOT good at transition outside of Dumo and Schultz (well Daley, but he's now injured and isn't the Daley he used to be). I've been impressed with them for sure, but this is not a group of 6 you intentionally build to win in the NHL.
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I think Ruh will actually help with that.
 
Shady Machine said:
This group of 6 is good at defending but NOT good at transition outside of Dumo and Schultz (well Daley, but he's now injured and isn't the Daley he used to be). I've been impressed with them for sure, but this is not a group of 6 you intentionally build to win in this NHL.

I agree that Shattenkirk isn't worth the money, but you have to have guys like him or Schultz in today's game. I'd say we need one more Schultz/Shatty type even with Letang, but those are expensive and hard to come by.

It's really a shame Pouliot sucks because he's the exact type of player you need to plug into the lineup when Letang goes out. Not putting it all on him, but damn what a disappointment he's been. It's really telling when no one here is even suggesting him as an option with Daley out.
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A fully healthy team we have Letang, Schultz, Daley who are those players, and Dumo and Maatta who are close. Assuming at least Daley is gone, we could use someone of that type but I don't think we need a full on offensive guy like Schultz or Shatty. I think we need someone more in the mold of a Paul Martin. I just want another defenseman who can make a breakout pass, not necessarily someone whos a PPQB or an offensive threat.
 
NMK11 said:
A fully healthy team we have Letang, Schultz, Daley who are those players, and Dumo and Maatta who are close. Assuming at least Daley is gone, we could use someone of that type but I don't think we need a full on offensive guy like Schultz or Shatty. I think we need someone more in the mold of a Paul Martin. I just want another defenseman who can make a breakout pass, not necessarily someone whos a PPQB or an offensive threat.
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I'm not saying I want an all out OFD, but it would be nice to have another option that can get point shots through that aren't muffins and have a chance to bury a grade A chance.

Maatta used to be that guy, but he's far from the offensive threat he was in his first 2 seasons. Right now he's a shutdown guy, not all that dissimilar to Hainsey. Dumo has the wheels and passing ability in transition, but he can't be your best guy at that role when Letang goes down. Daley looks to be done or is in serious need of rehab time.
 
Shady Machine said:
I'm not saying I want an all out OFD, but it would be nice to have another option that can get point shots through that aren't muffins and have a chance to bury a grade A chance.

Maatta used to be that guy, but he's far from the offensive threat he was in his first 2 seasons. Right now he's a shutdown guy, not all that dissimilar to Hainsey. Dumo has the wheels and passing ability in transition, but he can't be your best guy at that role when Letang goes down. Daley looks to be done or is in serious need of rehab time.
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Agreed in that I dont think we need a huge piece. I think Maatta can be that guy, but for whatever reason be it injuries, coaching, or whats in his head, hes lost all his offensive instincts and drive. He should have been our next Martin, and if he starts playing like it a group of Schultz, upgraded Maatta, and Dumo is a good starting group for Letang going down (again).

I dont watch WBS at all, any of the new guys down there capable? Prow? Bengsston? Corrado?
 
NMK11 said:
Agreed in that I dont think we need a huge piece. I think Maatta can be that guy, but for whatever reason be it injuries, coaching, or whats in his head, hes lost all his offensive instincts and drive. He should have been our next Martin, and if he starts playing like it a group of Schultz, upgraded Maatta, and Dumo is a good starting group for Letang going down (again).

I dont watch WBS at all, any of the new guys down there capable? Prow? Bengsston? Corrado?
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Definitely not up on what's going on in WBS, but it doesn't appear at all like those guys are answers at this point.

Corrado was okay in his limited time but he just looks stiff to me. He's interesting though just because I heard that the Leafs philosophy is let Babcock work with the guys and anyone who just doesn't "get it" as far as the system and what he wants doesn't play and is eventually flipped. So I guess there's a slight chance he could work out somewhere else.
 
UnderratedBrooks44 said:
I think Shattenkirk is a good player having a fairly bad series, but he still has an OT goal and seems to have the puck a lot. This series hasn't endeared me to him though. He's going to get grossly overpaid anyways so whatever.

I don't think Orpik has been that good but to act like he's been a turd on skates is just kinda ridiculous. If the Penguins have been getting sustained pressure by consistently exploiting a certain matchup this series, I've yet to see it, so I don't know how bad he could possibly be. In before username bias.
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Orpik has been at fault for seemingly half the Pens goals.. other fan bases even think he's been rough.
 
NMK11 said:
I dont watch WBS at all, any of the new guys down there capable? Prow? Bengsston? Corrado?
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Unless I'm mistaken, I'd imagine bengsston is one step away from done isn't he? Isn't he the guy that has lyme disease? That **** messes with your mojo. Big time.
 
The challenge this off season is MAF, then a 3rd line center and lastly getting a D man like Cole that can lend a physical presence in addition to some offensive ability. Dumo to a degree, Cole fit that mold. Hainsey not sure he can hold up for next season and Ruhwedel is a 6 or 7 at best. Pens have zero in the system since DP just never developed. Man wish he would have but can't hit on everything.
 
To me, I never liked the design of our D Corps going into this year. If everyone is healthy, it's great; however Letang is essentially a single point of failure, and his health is seemingly permanently questionable. There's no legit #2 guy who can step up, the rest are 3-6 guys.

I'm sympathetic to the argument that Daley's cliff diving, Maata's stalled development, and Pouilot completely crapping the bed have exacerbated the situation, but we should have tried to upgrade the defensive depth more than we did last year.
 
Shady Machine said:
Why does anyone want Shattenkirk over Schultz? Are we watching the same series? Shatty is like their 5th or 6th Dman right now. Yeah it's one series, but with the competition going after him and UFA + his performance vs Schultz as RFA and already loving Pittsburgh, it doesn't make any sense to me to pursue him over Schultz.
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I think they're looking at it as similar D who will cost something close to the same contract wise. So you sign Shatty for free and then trade Schultz for assets, and thus you profit. I mean in theory it sounds great, but I don't think their contracts will be all that similar and I'd rather just keep the devil we know vs trying to hit a home run.
 
Riptide said:
Agreed. This guy was playing over 20 minutes a night down the stretch for us. He should help a lot tonight - I just hope he's ready for a big game.
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At the very least, he's a fresher set of legs, and that's not nothing in a series where we've expected everyone to play significantly more minutes than they are used to.
 
If jake can play center and Sprong comes up next season, can any team beat this top 9 next year.

43-87-72
62-71-81
17-59-41

And the top 2 power play units next season

81-87-72
4-71

41-59-17
58-43
 
Should the Penguins look to dangle Sheary for D help at this point? Maatta is the only guy that doesn't look like a train wreck right now.
 
Keep Schultz, Cole and Dumo. Jettison Maatta, let Hainsey and Daley walk, and desperately try to find a way to replace Letang with a guy who isn't gonna miss 25 games a season and the entire playoffs every other year. Before anyone jumps at the opportunity, I realize Letang hasn't missed every other playoffs for his career, but even the most staunch of Letang supporters have to admit that two of the past three is concerning, and the toll of his injuries will only make it worse as times goes on.

Either way, completely dismantle the blueline. If we're gonna be this **** without Letang, stop committing to him as the cornerstone of your defensive corps. If you can't rely on the guy to be healthy, and it's blatantly obvious you can't, move on. There's gotta be a GM out there who will take a chance on him, and pay up big time. If we can, through some series of moves, go from Letang being the cornerstone of our blueline to Trouba, I'd be ecstatic.
 
I have pretty much zero attachment to any of our current, healthy defensemen. If any of them vacated, I'd be over it in about 2 minutes.
 
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