PC Building Guide and Discussion #14

[PeteWorrell]

I know this isn't necessarily the right thread for this, but it's the most applicable one I can find...

Anybody happen to know if the MacBooks with the Apple-made chips (M1/M2/M3) are any significant difference/improvement from the Intel-chipped MacBooks?

I ask mainly because I'm sick of every Macbook I buy having the battery go bad after a year and a half to two years, plus the casing itself heating up to the temperature of the sun until the fan kicks on and sounds like Hurricane Katrina rolling through because the RAM can't handle simple web browsing.

HFBoards has been notoriously bad at tanking the RAM on any computer I use, Mac or PC. I don't know if it's the ads or what, but it significantly effects RAM usage.

I am not a Mac person but i have read that the Apple M chips leave the Intel ones in the dust. They are more powerful while also being more power efficient.

 

[PK Cronin]

Had a very weird thing happen to me over the weekend.

Ever since I bought my motherboard I had issues with two RAM slots not working. I recently upgraded to Windows 11, as mentioned a few posts above, and had messed with a few BIOS settings to enable the upgrade to take place. Stupidly I wondered if the upgrade and/or changes to the BIOS would make any difference for those RAM slots and I gave them another go. Neither worked still, but this time it seemed to screw everything up. My PC wouldn't allow me to boot from my SSD with Windows on it. When attempting to fix it I made sure the latest version of my BIOS was installed and tried to boot from Windows Media tool via USB. Very rarely it would load to the tool, but after making any selection the computer would reboot and get stuck in the BIOS loop. I even tried to re-install Windows 10 instead and that didn't work either.

A few hundred bucks later and I have a new motherboard and CPU on the way. Hoping everything goes smoothly because I can't think of what else it could be. I should've just left it alone.

 

[Smelling Salt]

Did you try with only one RAM stick installed in one of the problematic slots? Guess it doesn't matter now, and it does really sound like a mobo issue.

That kind of RAM weirdness can also happen with bent CPU pins, or a CPU that is too tightly installed. Every PC repair Youtube video I have watched it was usually the memory controller at fault when slots weren't working, but bent CPU pins also caused the issue sometimes...

 

[PK Cronin]

Did you try with only one RAM stick installed in one of the problematic slots? Guess it doesn't matter now, and it does really sound like a mobo issue.

That kind of RAM weirdness can also happen with bent CPU pins, or a CPU that is too tightly installed. Every PC repair Youtube video I have watched it was usually the memory controller at fault when slots weren't working, but bent CPU pins also caused the issue sometimes...

I spent a lot of time with two sticks in and felt like an idiot when I finally remembered to pull one out but it ultimately resulted in the same issue.

Don't think it was bent pins, I'm pretty careful with that because I'm paranoid about it.

 

[93LEAFS]

Had a very weird thing happen to me over the weekend.

Ever since I bought my motherboard I had issues with two RAM slots not working. I recently upgraded to Windows 11, as mentioned a few posts above, and had messed with a few BIOS settings to enable the upgrade to take place. Stupidly I wondered if the upgrade and/or changes to the BIOS would make any difference for those RAM slots and I gave them another go. Neither worked still, but this time it seemed to screw everything up. My PC wouldn't allow me to boot from my SSD with Windows on it. When attempting to fix it I made sure the latest version of my BIOS was installed and tried to boot from Windows Media tool via USB. Very rarely it would load to the tool, but after making any selection the computer would reboot and get stuck in the BIOS loop. I even tried to re-install Windows 10 instead and that didn't work either.

A few hundred bucks later and I have a new motherboard and CPU on the way. Hoping everything goes smoothly because I can't think of what else it could be. I should've just left it alone.

Just wondering, what CPU, what generation of RAM (DDR4/DDR5) and what motherboard are you running. Just asking because that might give insight.

When building something for a relative, using a 13600k, Asus Tuf gaming Z790, and DDR5, on first boot the PC would only boot with one stick of RAM (after getting nothing but fans turning on, lights turning on, but no display. Weirdly, the thing that fixed it was activating XMP, and after that I put the other stick of Ram in, and it's worked fine since. Sometimes weird things just happen. I don't know why enabling XMP worked, it just did.

 

[PK Cronin]

Just wondering, what CPU, what generation of RAM (DDR4/DDR5) and what motherboard are you running. Just asking because that might give insight.

When building something for a relative, using a 13600k, Asus Tuf gaming Z790, and DDR5, on first boot the PC would only boot with one stick of RAM (after getting nothing but fans turning on, lights turning on, but no display. Weirdly, the thing that fixed it was activating XMP, and after that I put the other stick of Ram in, and it's worked fine since. Sometimes weird things just happen. I don't know why enabling XMP worked, it just did.

I have an i7-9700K, DDR4, Gigabyte Z390 M motherboard.

What's super strange is that it'll load the USB every now and again but just crashes after I select an option, then restarts and I get stuck in the BIOS loop for a bit until it does the same thing. I've got a new CPU (i7-12700K) and motherboard (Gigabyte Z690 AORUS) because it didn't make sense to buy an older motherboard for more money than a newer one and now I'm just waiting on a new AIO cooler to arrive today before I install everything and see if it works.

 

[mouser]

Not actually a PC build, but been looking at options to replace my Asus RT-N66U wireless router with a newer model, plus upgrade cable modem to DOCSIS 3.1 when the Black Friday deals start.

Good friend has just about convinced me to move over to a Ubiquiti UniFi infrastructure rather than get a newer ASUS WRT-based router. Would be installing a Ubiquiti Dream Machine rack form router with one or two APs. Will be an interesting project. Don’t have a rack in my cramped wiring closet (laundry room), so I’d likely install a wall mount swing out 6U rack with the Ubiquiti router, a PDU, patch panel plus a shelf or two for the modem and any other non-rack network gear.

Should make it easier to setup some more complicated network configs I’ve been wanting to do for a while. Including a fully isolated work at home LAN and better PiHole failover.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Battery life is apparently much better with the M chips.

Also use a browser that supports uBlock Origin.

Yeah, I think it's all symptomatic of one main issue and I think it's the RAM, honestly.

RAM gets overworked (Which seems like a joke for Youtube videos and HFBoards but it still does. FWIW, HFBoards also kills my work PC) causing the computer to overheat. Fan kicks on. The overheat plus the fan puts a strain on the battery.

BUT, my last two MacBooks the battery has gone to "Service soon" mode in about a year and a half on both.

 

[PK Cronin]

Not sure how many people are aware of this, I certainly wasn't, so I figured I'd post the article.

Microsoft investigating Windows activation issues after closing a key loophole

You might not be able to reactivate your Windows install after a hardware change.

www.theverge.com

If you upgraded to Windows 10/11 via a Windows 7/8 key and then replace hardware you won't be able to re-activate Windows using that key because it's no longer supported. I had spoken to support and they told me there was nothing they can do because they stopped supporting it about a month ago. Keep that in mind if you plan on making any upgrades after Black Friday. I had to bum a key off a friend who had an extra one laying around.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Hey, so I'm building a new PC and having an issue I've never encountered before. When I turn the PSU on, the motherboard lights up with RGB lights, but when I press the power button on my case the CPU fan will try to spin up for half a second before immediately turning of. There's no booting, no humming, neither the CPU/GPU/case fans are spinning at all. Same with the PSU fan, pressing the power button on the face of the tower will cause it to spin up for half a second and then immediately stop. Pressing reset does nothing, but if I turn of the PSU and try again, the same brief spin up keeps happening.

All of the components are brand new out of the box from Newegg. Here are the specs:

Asrock B660M Pro motherboard (mini ATX)
Intel i5-13400F processor
Crucial DDR4 3200 2 x 32 GB RAM
Thermaltake Smart 700W PSU
Enermax ETS-N31 CPU fan + Arctic Silver thermal paste
Crucial P3 Plus 2 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD
RTX 4060 GPU
Antec VSK 3000E case

I've checked all the PSU cable are connected properly - 4-pin to the CPU slot, 20-pin in the 20-pin slot, case fan in the chassis fan slot, PCI 4-pin to the GPU, and all the power/reset face pins are connected properly the best I can tell.

As far as I know the PSU is working because the RGB on the motherboard lights up. I tried removing components one at a time and firing them up, I tried removing all the pins and re-connecting them, I tried multiple different outlets and surge protectors. I just really don't know what to do. Google and Reddit have not been very helpful.

 

[Osprey]

I'd remove and re-install the RAM and GPU, ensuring that they're seated properly. I'd also make sure that the CPU cooler is plugged into the CPU_FAN1 (left) header, not CPU_FAN2, in case it's shutting down because it's not detecting it.

If none of that helps, I'd take off the CPU cooler, remove the CPU and re-install both, making extra sure that they're both seated properly and making good contact.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Hey, so I'm building a new PC and having an issue I've never encountered before. When I turn the PSU on, the motherboard lights up with RGB lights, but when I press the power button on my case the CPU fan will try to spin up for half a second before immediately turning of. There's no booting, no humming, neither the CPU/GPU/case fans are spinning at all. Same with the PSU fan, pressing the power button on the face of the tower will cause it to spin up for half a second and then immediately stop. Pressing reset does nothing, but if I turn of the PSU and try again, the same brief spin up keeps happening.

All of the components are brand new out of the box from Newegg. Here are the specs:

Asrock B660M Pro motherboard (mini ATX)
Intel i5-13400F processor
Crucial DDR4 3200 2 x 32 GB RAM
Thermaltake Smart 700W PSU
Enermax ETS-N31 CPU fan + Arctic Silver thermal paste
Crucial P3 Plus 2 TB PCIe NVMe M.2 SSD
RTX 4060 GPU
Antec VSK 3000E case

I've checked all the PSU cable are connected properly - 4-pin to the CPU slot, 20-pin in the 20-pin slot, case fan in the chassis fan slot, PCI 4-pin to the GPU, and all the power/reset face pins are connected properly the best I can tell.

As far as I know the PSU is working because the RGB on the motherboard lights up. I tried removing components one at a time and firing them up, I tried removing all the pins and re-connecting them, I tried multiple different outlets and surge protectors. I just really don't know what to do. Google and Reddit have not been very helpful.

Can you get into the bios? If so check if its seeing the boot drive.

Anyways I'm having my own issue here, My computer will black screen and the gpu fan will blast, and the interesting thing is that the gpu fan will blast far above what it can even do by setting the fans to 100% in afterburner. Im not playing any games or anything.

Going to have to do some experimentation but im suspecting my gpu may be dying, or its a tempature issue. It doesn't look like a temperature issue as ive looked it at idle and it stays right at 35-40 degrees C. Its a blower card though so who knows they do go more quickly than regular cards.

edit: yeah this keeps happening and the temperatures are fine. Gonna update the drivers and see if it solves it.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I'd remove and re-install the RAM and GPU, ensuring that they're seated properly. I'd also make sure that the CPU cooler is plugged into the CPU_FAN1 (left) header, not CPU_FAN2, in case it's shutting down because it's not detecting it.

If none of that helps, I'd take off the CPU cooler, remove the CPU and re-install both, making extra sure that they're both seated properly and making good contact.

Thanks, this definitely helped but now there's a different problem. I removed the CPU fan and reinstalled it and now the fan will turn on and stay on. I am also now getting the PSC lights to turn on. The CPU light turns red for a moment, and then turns off and the fan continues to run. This is very good progress, it wasn't doing that last night.

The issue now is that the DRAM light is red. I've tried every configuration imaginable - RAM 1 alone in every slot, RAM 2 alone in every slot, dual channel in slots 2 and 4 (manufacturers guide recommended), same ports but swapping the sticks, dual channel in slots 1 and 3. Nothing seems too work. There is no boot, nothing pops up when connected to a screen.

The motherboard manual and the Crucial website both say this type of RAM should be compatible with the motherboard: Link. I suppose it's possible I got two DOA Ram sticks out of the same box at the same time but that seems astronomically unlikely.

 

[Osprey]

Anyways I'm having my own issue here, My computer will black screen and the gpu fan will blast, and the interesting thing is that the gpu fan will blast far above what it can even do by setting the fans to 100% in afterburner. Im not playing any games or anything.

I've had that happen. It's terrifying. I don't remember what I did when it happened, but I think that I might've unplugged the power cable from the tower, waited 30 seconds and then plugged it back in. It's also possible that I took the GPU out, removed the heatsink and fan and checked all of the thermal pads and adjusted or flipped them over.

The issue now is that the DRAM light is red. I've tried every configuration imaginable - RAM 1 alone in every slot, RAM 2 alone in every slot, dual channel in slots 2 and 4 (manufacturers guide recommended), same ports but swapping the sticks, dual channel in slots 1 and 3. Nothing seems too work. There is no boot, nothing pops up when connected to a screen.

The motherboard manual and the Crucial website both say this type of RAM should be compatible with the motherboard: Link. I suppose it's possible I got two DOA Ram sticks out of the same box at the same time but that seems astronomically unlikely.

According to ASRock, they should be in slots 2 and 4, as you said. Make sure that they're clicking into place. RAM can take quite a lot of pressure to fully seat.

Make sure to test all of the video outputs on your GPU. You could be getting video and not seeing it. For example, GPUs sometimes default to outputting video to the HDMI port, which can be a nuisance when you have a DisplayPort monitor.

I would also try clearing the CMOS. There are two pins for it on the bottom of the motherboard. Just put a jumper on them, try to turn them computer on and then remove the jumper again.

If that doesn't help, it's possible that motherboard shipped with an old BIOS version that doesn't support your CPU. According to ASRock, 13th gen processors need at least BIOS version 8.02. I could be wrong, but it looks like this motherboard doesn't offer the ability to update the BIOS without a CPU. I don't suppose that you happen to have a 12th gen CPU that you can briefly install in order to update the BIOS.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I had no idea about this, google is intentionally adding a several second delay to youtube if you use youtube in other browsers

This filter in ublock origin makes all videos play instantly.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I had no idea about this, google is intentionally adding a several second delay to youtube if you use youtube in other browsers

This filter in ublock origin makes all videos play instantly.

What do you mean exactly by other browsers? If you're not using Chrome, there is going to be a delay in using YouTube?

 

[aleshemsky83]

What do you mean exactly by other browsers? If you're not using Chrome, there is going to be a delay in using YouTube?

I use firefox, so you probably dont know anything about this if you havent used anything but chrome but yes, they put artificial loading in other browsers. It was never this severe for me but its now instantaneous since i added that filter to ublock.

https://x.com/uwukko/status/1726625892620009501?s=46&t=UJhz2ZNLSEJ8CIDvjoFJRQ

I dont even have the slight loading thats shown in this video anymore, everything plays instantly.

 

[Osprey]

I just watched a couple of YT videos in Edge and they played instantly, so it doesn't seem to be intentionally directed at other browsers. It's probably a bug or a change that they didn't test well enough in non-Chromium browsers.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I just watched a couple of YT videos in Edge and they played instantly, so it doesn't seem to be intentionally directed at other browsers. It's probably a bug or a change that they didn't test well enough in non-Chromium browsers.

This seems like it may be part of their adblock detection.

 

[Osprey]

This seems like it may be part of their adblock detection.

That makes more sense. They're always looking for new ways to undermine adblocking in YouTube.

 

[Knave]

Quick question - lets say I have some 3600 RAM that was "Intel XMP ready" or whatever. Would it work in an AMD board/CPU that accepts 3600? Obviously not expecting max performance here but rather RAM that exists and works at a bare minimum level.

I already have the RAM. Just wondering if it will blow up or something or brick the board or whatever. If that's the case I'll buy RAM specifically designed for AMD. If not I'd rather not spend the $50-100.

The AMD stuff - 5600x, AM4 board. It does accept 3600, I checked. I don't care if it runs at 2133 or whatever min speed is.

 

[Osprey]

Yes, it should work.

 

[AfroThunder396]

According to ASRock, they should be in slots 2 and 4, as you said. Make sure that they're clicking into place. RAM can take quite a lot of pressure to fully seat.

Make sure to test all of the video outputs on your GPU. You could be getting video and not seeing it. For example, GPUs sometimes default to outputting video to the HDMI port, which can be a nuisance when you have a DisplayPort monitor.

I would also try clearing the CMOS. There are two pins for it on the bottom of the motherboard. Just put a jumper on them, try to turn them computer on and then remove the jumper again.

If that doesn't help, it's possible that motherboard shipped with an old BIOS version that doesn't support your CPU. According to ASRock, 13th gen processors need at least BIOS version 8.02. I could be wrong, but it looks like this motherboard doesn't offer the ability to update the BIOS without a CPU. I don't suppose that you happen to have a 12th gen CPU that you can briefly install in order to update the BIOS.

So far I have done all of this:

-Tried both HDMI ports and both DisplayPorts on the GPU.
-Took the CMOS out overnight, wiped the ports, reinstalled.
-Tried a jumper.
-Checked the BIOS tag on the mobo, it says 11.06.

I’ve gotten to the point where the DRAM light will stay on and the CPU/chassis fan will spring for about 7 seconds before both turn off. After being off for a few seconds, the DRAM light and fans will both turn back on, rinse and repeat.

I think I’m going to take it into a local computer shop and see if they can figure it out. Don’t know what else to do. I appreciate the help.

 

[Osprey]

So far I have done all of this:

-Tried both HDMI ports and both DisplayPorts on the GPU.
-Took the CMOS out overnight, wiped the ports, reinstalled.
-Tried a jumper.
-Checked the BIOS tag on the mobo, it says 11.06.

I’ve gotten to the point where the DRAM light will stay on and the CPU/chassis fan will spring for about 7 seconds before both turn off. After being off for a few seconds, the DRAM light and fans will both turn back on, rinse and repeat.

I think I’m going to take it into a local computer shop and see if they can figure it out. Don’t know what else to do. I appreciate the help.

Can you borrow some RAM from another computer, like a family member's or friend's? You could take the case over to them, borrow their sticks for a few minutes and see if your computer boots. If so, then you know that your RAM is bad and you should return it and get a new set. If you don't know anyone with the right type of RAM, you could just order new, different RAM sticks and just return or re-sell them if they don't work, either.

 

[mouser]

Not actually a PC build, but been looking at options to replace my Asus RT-N66U wireless router with a newer model, plus upgrade cable modem to DOCSIS 3.1 when the Black Friday deals start.

Good friend has just about convinced me to move over to a Ubiquiti UniFi infrastructure rather than get a newer ASUS WRT-based router. Would be installing a Ubiquiti Dream Machine rack form router with one or two APs. Will be an interesting project. Don’t have a rack in my cramped wiring closet (laundry room), so I’d likely install a wall mount swing out 6U rack with the Ubiquiti router, a PDU, patch panel plus a shelf or two for the modem and any other non-rack network gear.

Should make it easier to setup some more complicated network configs I’ve been wanting to do for a while. Including a fully isolated work at home LAN and better PiHole failover.

Home network upgrade project has officially kicked off, most of the equipment on order. Upgrading my network backbone to Ubiquiti (UniFi) ecosystem products with layer 3 VLAN switching. UniFi - Rethinking IT - Ubiquiti

As part of the upgrade I’m going to repurpose the dozen (unused) phone line runs in my house over to Ethernet. The phone lines were all run using standard Cat5 network cable—only need to change the cable termination from 4 wire RJ11 to RJ45 in the central wiring cabinet and the end of each cable run In the house. Way cheaper solution than pulling new cable to a few areas of the house where I’d like to have a new or additional Ethernet port.


Current high level plan, subject to change and evolution, is to create:

Separate VLANs for:
- Network Backbone devices (router, switches, wireless access points)
- Servers/NAS devices
- Trusted Home Network devices (mostly computers and other android/Apple devices)
- Work At Home Network (computers provided by employer I want isolated from my personal home network)
- Internet of Things (IoT)—other network connected devices I want careful control over who they can talk to like thermostats and garage door openers

Separate WiFi SSIDs for:
- Trusted Home Network
- Guest Network
- Wireless Internet of Things devices
- maybe a Work at Home SSID