Hockey Duckie
Registered User
I see Minty as an offensive dynamo, but his defense is suspect. This is why I don't think he can make the NHL jump full-time this season or next.
Player Discussion Pavel Mintyukov
- Thread starter Ducks DVM
- Start date
I see Minty as an offensive dynamo, but his defense is suspect. This is why I don't think he can make the NHL jump full-time this season or next.
Smirnov2Chistov
Fire Greg Cronin!
with the right development plan, I really think he could be better than Lindholm.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Kinda difficult to compare since they're different types of defensemen. We have discussions all the time on who's the better defensemen on here between Lindholm and Fowler, but in truth we aren't comparing apples to apples. One's forte is defense and the other is offense, respectively.
Minty's high octane offense and suspect defense, which is akin to Klingberg nowadays. Drysdale's OHL team sucked, but in his draft year Drysdale proved to be very good defensively. Zellweger is about 2 months older than Minty. (Zell birthdate is 9/2003 and Minty birthdate is 11/2003.) All three are offensive defensemen and played in the CHL. We can compare apples to apples here.
Minty: 6'1 and 192 lbs
Drysdale: 5'11 and 174 lbs
Zellweger: 5'10 and 174 lbs (he's much more swole now)
Scoring in their draft year
Minty = 67 games, 62 pts (17g + 45a), 0.898 ppg
Drysdale = 49 games, 47 pts (9g + 38a), 0.959 ppg
Zellweger = 11 games, 13 pts (2g + 11a), 1.1818 ppg
Zell D+1 = 55 games, 78 pts (14+ 64a), 1.418 ppg (added for bigger sample)
Scoring differential in their draft year
Minty: 62 pts + (-14 plus/minus rating) = 48 score diff
Drysdale: 47 pts + 9 plus/minus rating = 56 score diff
Zellweger: 13 pts + 5 plus/minus rating = 18 scor diff
Zell D+1: 78 pts + 45 plus/minus rating = 123 score diff (added for a bigger sample)
Drysdale struggled as a 19-year old in the NHL with Lindholm as his partner, but Drysdale's defense is better than Minty's. I'm very skeptical of Minty's defense and not buying the moon on him just yet.
He actually is very similar to Hampus in 2012.
Read these and tell me who they are about:
Smirnov2Chistov
Fire Greg Cronin!
first one sounds like Lindholm, the second Mintyukov
I guess I see it differently. I can see Mintyukov becoming a great defenseman like a Lindholm instead of an offensive force. If he can round his game out and play decently physical, then I'll be happy with the pick.
Drysdale and Zellweger are different stories. Jaime's development has plateaued IMO, and I have a hard time convincing myself that Zellweger will make a strong impact with his 'lack of size'. I would rather use Olen for a trade chip to get an even better forward to help out our scoring woes.
What's the better option? Have him learn by beating up other kids in AHL? This season is going to be a dead season anyways. Let the kids shine. Let them get the experience and let them walk the fire.
GunnarStahl
Let’s go shake their hands
- Oct 13, 2020
- 2,076
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A young mans game, with all of 1 18 year olds playing the full season last year.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Yeah, I don't see the comp between Lindholm and Minty. Lindholm was getting defensive accolades in his draft year from those who watched him and said his defense was the reason their team got into the playoffs for a promotion (from HA to SHL). I just haven't witnessed that kind of defense from Minty. Then again, it could the coaching staff/scheme like some fans said about Klingberg and the current head coach.
I don't see how Drysdale's development plateaued? His development didn't skyrocket, but the fact he was able to play 81 games and not look overtly lost like last year after three to four games is a development. IMO, it shows his body is adapting physically to the NHL level. Now he had that under his belt, he can focus on improving more skill this season.
As for Zell, I think he can be PP1 QB, but plays the 3rd pairing. With the right partner, I think Zell can thrive in the NHL.
I don't want to trade any defense just yet. Defensemen usually take some time to develop, we don't know who can be signed, or who will actually pan out. If we sign all of them and they do pan out, then, of course, we'll be trading some of them for better NHL players.
Drysdale was the only 19 year old defensemen in the NHL this season and it didn't go exceedingly well.
Now you want to throw an 18 year old in the NHL?
This is sports. The only way for kids to get better is to play against bigger and better competition.
Freshmans in high school play against seniors in the varsity team. If you don't want him being too exposed, play him on the 4th line but you get him minutes against the real feel of the game. You don't learn anything playing against lesser competition.
Drysdale is fine. When his motor picks up the speed of the game, the light bulb will go on and it will come easy afterwards. The issue here is what is his ceiling.
ok i mistyped it. play him on the 3rd line...happy. you know you have nothing to say so you nitpick grammar and typos.
The point of the matter is, play him in the least played minute line and you know that i meant that.
Ya and that is absurd. I have never heard anyone say the best way to develop an 18 year old defensemen right out of the draft is to play them 8 minutes a night on the 3rd pairing in the NHL.
I'm all about aggressively promoting elite talent, but the no. 10 overall pick isn't starting in the NHL at 18
dracom
Registered User
and he shouldn't have started so early. not sure if your Fowler point is the one you want to use to prove your point lol
dracom
Registered User
yeah, but chances are he could have been better. you should want more out a top prospect than just "fine"
so rushing Pavel just so he might just be "fine" is a bad idea
I have so many thoughts to this line of thinking.
1. The Ducks were trying to win. They were a top 10 team in the NHL trying to win a cup.
2. Cam was the #3 defensemen on the team playing over 22 minutes a night, including #1 PP time.
3. You can make an argument that Cam is also not a great example of development since his offensive game never took the next step.
Look at what Zellweger was able to do in him D+1. Another year in juniors should be huge for Minty's development. Way better then 8 minutes a night with no PP/PK time in the NHL.
Paul4587
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2006
- 31,206
- 13,231
Hockey is a game where confidence matters so much and development can completely stall when players start to lose that confidence. If you put a player in a league they’re not ready for - whether it be physically, the pace of the game or whatever they’re going to make more mistakes than normal. Once players start making mistakes they start second guessing their ability, rush decisions and their overall game suffers. Bad habits creep in and it can result in a rough downward spiral. Playing at a lower level also allows players to get much more ice time in situations where wouldn’t see ice time in if they were playing in the NHL.
I definitely think Fowler would have been a better player if we didn’t rush him into the NHL. His second year we threw him to the wolves, making him play top pairing minutes on his off side and he got absolutely destroyed playing against that level of competition. That and the hit he took from Doan in his rookie year clearly affected his confidence, you can see now he’s so hesitant to be aggressive offensively when he has the tools to be so good at skating the puck in and joining the rush.
I definitely think Fowler would have been a better player if we didn’t rush him into the NHL. His second year we threw him to the wolves, making him play top pairing minutes on his off side and he got absolutely destroyed playing against that level of competition. That and the hit he took from Doan in his rookie year clearly affected his confidence, you can see now he’s so hesitant to be aggressive offensively when he has the tools to be so good at skating the puck in and joining the rush.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
It has become a younger man's game in recent times for sure, but you'll still find that teenage Dmen don't stick in the NHL very often. Almost exclusively forwards making it as 18 year olds, and they are generally provided a level a sheltering that you just can't really give to a Dman.
I'm not saying it does not happen for sure, because I do think Minty is supremely talented enough to possibly be one of those few outliers. But I just really don't expect it at all, based on historical likelihood, Verbeek's comments about not rushing players and the fact that this team isn't desperate to contend in an all hands on deck type scenario.
You guys had the exactly argument of saying Zegras was not ready. He's too skinny, he lacks confidence. He needs to eat twinkies.
I kept saying just let the damn kid play. he will build off the confidence there at the NHL level instead of playing with amateurs and 3rd rate level players. Then BAM...he takes off, probably being our best player. He oozes with confidence and it appears the game even slowed down for him.
There was no point at all to keep Zegras in the AHL. That kid was ready out of the bat. You never know exactly what you get until you try it. Trust me. You play the kid with vets and learn from vets is much more beneficial than learning with other kids.
I kept saying just let the damn kid play. he will build off the confidence there at the NHL level instead of playing with amateurs and 3rd rate level players. Then BAM...he takes off, probably being our best player. He oozes with confidence and it appears the game even slowed down for him.
There was no point at all to keep Zegras in the AHL. That kid was ready out of the bat. You never know exactly what you get until you try it. Trust me. You play the kid with vets and learn from vets is much more beneficial than learning with other kids.
he had one of the neidermeyer brothers under his wing. He said out of all things that gave him the most confidence was having neidermeyer look out for him.
