Pavel Bure

[Staniowski]

This brings up an interesting question, were Selanne and Mogilny actually better at their peak than Bure? It’s tough to say since both had their peaks during 1992-93, but like you say Bure played then and only scored 60…. It’s quite the difference

All three were great goal-scorers, and all three had great speed, and all three were significantly affected by injuries, in different ways.

I do believe that, at their bests, they were three of the best goal-scorers ever.

But I think Bure was the best goal-scorer of that generation. Bure was better as an individualist, and I think that contributed in giving him an edge. His individualism, combined with his desire to score goals, his explosive skating, stickhandling, and deking ability.

 

[TheBig08]

Bure smashed the big rink too. Ovi struggled internationally.

as he got older for sure but younger ovi was good remember the 14 goals in 8 games at the wjc-18 and were not talking about international talking about nhl numbers

 

[Overrated]

as he got older for sure but younger ovi was good remember the 14 goals in 8 games at the wjc-18 and were not talking about international talking about nhl numbers

games against children don't count

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

This brings up an interesting question, were Selanne and Mogilny actually better at their peak than Bure? It’s tough to say since both had their peaks during 1992-93, but like you say Bure played then and only scored 60…. It’s quite the difference

It's probably not a popular opinion, but I think so. Isolating it to their absolute best season.

I've long wondered if Mogilny isn't the most talented of the Bure/Fedorov/Mogilny grouping (including Selanne too).

Mogilny and Selanne have more give-and-take to their game working off of their teammates, and while Bure can individually do things like (almost) no one else, hockey's not a 1-on-5 game at the end of the day. Bure didn't need "optimal conditions" to hit 60 goals. Credit to him for that. In less-than-desirable conditions, I think Selanne and (a motivated enough) Mogilny could still hit 40-50 goals. The flipside is that I highly doubt Bure could give you more than what he gave (60 goals/50 assists, career highs), in terms of his peak play.

I also have a very hard time picturing Bure and Lafontaine's games gelling together, or Bure playing with Zhamnov and specifically Phil Housley, in those scenarios, matching Mogilny and Selanne's high water mark of 76 goals. You need to invest in your teammates more, to yield greater returns. Bure is not that kind of a guy in my opinion.

 

[TheBig08]

deleted

 

[Overrated]

It's probably not a popular opinion, but I think so. Isolating it to their absolute best season.

I've long wondered if Mogilny isn't the most talented of the Bure/Fedorov/Mogilny grouping (including Selanne too).

Mogilny and Selanne have more give-and-take to their game working off of their teammates, and while Bure can individually do things like (almost) no one else, hockey's not a 1-on-5 game at the end of the day. Bure didn't need "optimal conditions" to hit 60 goals. Credit to him for that. In less-than-desirable conditions, I think Selanne and (a motivated enough) Mogilny could still hit 40-50 goals. The flipside is that I highly doubt Bure could give you more than what he gave (60 goals/50 assists, career highs), in terms of his peak play.

I also have a very hard time picturing Bure and Lafontaine's games gelling together, or Bure playing with Zhamnov and specifically Phil Housley, in those scenarios, matching Mogilny and Selanne's high water mark of 76 goals. You need to invest in your teammates more, to yield greater returns. Bure is not that kind of a guy in my opinion.

Last three seasons of pro hockey at CSKA before departing for the NHL:

Bure dominates even in terms of assists. Secondary and rebounded assists weren't counted afaik.

 

[sr edler]

This brings up an interesting question, were Selanne and Mogilny actually better at their peak than Bure? It’s tough to say since both had their peaks during 1992-93, but like you say Bure played then and only scored 60…. It’s quite the difference

Mogilny's 2 years older than Bure, was 23 at the time and in his 4th NHL season, and played with the more high-octane line-mate in Lafontaine. 92–93 Bure played mostly with Anatoli Semenov (C) and Greg Adams (LW), sprinkled in with some Dixon Ward and Murray Craven.

I'm saying this as a fan of both players, btw. Mogilny had facets to his game where he was better than Bure, but Bure also had facets to his game where he was better than Mogilny.

Selänne's also older than Bure.

Bure playing with Zhamnov

I think Bure played with this guy at the 98 Olympics, where he was voted best forward. So, I don't see why they couldn't have had good chemistry, offensively speaking. It makes zero sense to me to say they couldn't have had.

Bure dominates even in terms of assists. Secondary and rebounded assists weren't counted afaik.

Fun fact is that Bure in Vancouver had more PP assists than PP goals. He used to play the point on the PP in Van.

He also out-scored Fedorov and Mogilny at the 1989 WJC in Anchorage, Alaska, as a 1st year player, the only WJC these guys played together since F & M were two years older.

 

[Overrated]

I think Bure played with this guy at the 98 Olympics, where he was voted best forward. So, I don't see why they couldn't have had good chemistry, offensively speaking. It makes zero sense to me to say they couldn't have had.

It makes no sense to think that Bure wouldn't be a great team player. He was raised by Tikhonov after all.

 

[sr edler]

- feel like bure was an extreme version of soviet anti-longevity. the way you typically had soviet guys falling off as a matter of course in their late 20s, to be replaced by the younger generation coming up, my hunch is that bure was not only brought up in that system where his obsolescence was planned but even moreso than everyone else because his dad was his dad. from a young age he was trained to maximize short term gain to the expense of sustainable performance. brother valeri also fell apart very young.

He also seemed like a guy who had some outside interests, which also could have taken away some passion or focus from the game, like hanging around with dubious 'businessmen' (mobsters?) or even reading up a law degree. Or even just reading books in general. In comparison to someone like Jagr where his life seems to have been more or less only about hockey (gambling doesn't count as a legit hobby IMO).

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

I think Bure played with this guy at the 98 Olympics, where he was voted best forward. So, I don't see why they couldn't have had good chemistry, offensively speaking. It makes zero sense to me to say they couldn't have had.

He also out-scored Fedorov and Mogilny at the 1989 WJC in Anchorage, Alaska, as a 1st year player, the only WJC these guys played together since F & M were two years older.

It makes no sense to think that Bure wouldn't be a great team player. He was raised by Tikhonov after all.

I don't see what small samples of international play has to do with peak production in the NHL over a single season. Same with how Bure performed in Russia. That's just it, he had freedom to play how he wanted to play in the NHL, no longer under Tikhonov's watchful eye. If he was a superior playmaker to Fedorov or Mogilny in Russia, he wasn't that guy in the NHL.

His game is mostly weighted towards being a goalscorer. He eclipsed the 40 assist mark twice, whereas Mogilny did so seven times, and Selanne nine times.

Sure Selanne is older, by "1" year, and Bure was in year 2 with the Canucks in 1992-93, with - I think - a more balanced roster than say the Jets.

Bure needed the puck on his stick more than any elite All Time great goalscorer winger that I can think of. It's a waste to have him paired with a great playmaking centerman, meaning a waste for the playmaking centerman. If you watched him up close all of those years, you should be able to recognize that.