News Article: Patrick O'Sullivan to Edmonton; Justin Williams to LA (3-way Trade)

[JDM]

I think Moller is going to be a dominant player, and maybe he did make O'Sullivan expendable, but what drives me crazy is the extreme swings people have with players. Remember when O'Sullivan was the bright spot light last year, best defensive forward, thrived under the coaching. At the beginning of the season, he stepped in and adapted well. Remember great chemistry with Moller and Stoll. That was a great line, and then he was all over the map, but heated up the line with Boyle and Harrold (who would know), and then of course played with Kopitar and they both started scoring, and then later he is put on a line with Fro and Kopitar, and that line starts scoring and has some great chemistry? Of course defensively, O'Sullivan spent a lot of time on the PK and was great, which freed up other players for strictly offense time on ice.

So yeah maybe he isn't the right fit, he didn't have the year he should have, but man memories can be very short.

You make a marvelous point. What have you done for me lately can be overdone, but its also a fair question. Like I said, I think O'Sullivan got by on talent alone, and while it made for flashes of brilliance, and really exciting hockey, I didn't saw 10% of that this season as opposed to last season.

Only in the first 5 games did I see him getting creative, going to the net, trying to find open ice, skating the puck into the zone and flipping backwards, confusing the hell out of the defenseman.

A stretch of 5-10 bad games here and there are no reason to get down on a player. A very different player from last year, when next year is make or break time for the playoffs to consider this rebuild working? It gets less obscene to me to shift attitudes between last April and this March.

Many of us have been saying these things the last 3-4 months, not just because isn't a King anymore.

I respect your point.

 

[William H Bonney]

I've liked Moller's play within half a season than i did with O'sullivan. Moller has brought more upside than Sully. Most importantly, Sully's bad decisions in the offensive zone caused poor turnovers while Moller makes the smarter decisions. And i don't know how you could come to the conclusion that Moller's defensive play comes nowhere near Patrick's.

Because O'Sullivan was one of our best defensive forwards and led our forwards in ice time for that very reason.

Moller isn't and doesn't. Not that he can't/won't develop that (as Sully did) but he's not there.

 

[Goallum]

What if I told you that we could give up a 23 year old core player + a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 27 year old that has two replaced knees and 2 good seasons? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

A lot of people have been hoping for Lombardi to trade for an injury-prone first-line winger today. Voilà!

 

[William H Bonney]

What if I told you that we could give up a 23 year old core player + a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 27 year old that has two replaced knees and 2 good seasons? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

You sound like that old ******* on Entourage haha.

 

[HYORI 1963]

not until he fully rehabs the injury between his ears.

it ain't his skill or hockey IQ i'm concerned about.

Yeah, we'll just see how his psyche problems affect him in Edmonton.

I'm sure when he does well, you'll think of another excuse to deprive him of any credit.

 

[Reaper45]

What if I told you that we could give up a 23 year old core player + a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 27 year old that has two replaced knees and 2 good seasons? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

Could be worse. We could be a team that gave up a 23 year old forward and a 2nd round pick for a playoff rental that is a retread.

 

[JDM]

What if I told you that we could give up a 23 year old core player + a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 27 year old that has two replaced knees and 2 good seasons? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

Eric, I'm lonely.

 

[Zad]

The Kings added to their depth at forward Sunday when they signed free-agent Alyn McCauley to a three-year, $6-million contract.

McCauley, 29, totaled 12points and 14 assists in 76games last season with SanJose. This is the second time Kings president and general manager Dean Lombardi.

"Alyn is a solid two-way hockey player whose competitiveness and leadership abilities makes him a good fit for our hockey club,'' Lombardi said.

 

[Thrice]

The Kings added to their depth at forward Sunday when they signed free-agent Alyn McCauley to a three-year, $6-million contract.

McCauley, 29, totaled 12points and 14 assists in 76games last season with SanJose. This is the second time Kings president and general manager Dean Lombardi.

"Alyn is a solid two-way hockey player whose competitiveness and leadership abilities makes him a good fit for our hockey club,'' Lombardi said.

Good point. Don't let Justin Williams come back before he's 100%. That's what ended Alyn's career.

 

[William H Bonney]

Dude, the Prozac Prince or the kid skipping around thinking about drinking a malt with the girl he saw in the Team LA store. Who would you rather hang out with for six months straight?

I don't know, I don't know either player.

Your own argument is disjointed as hell. Just listen to me when I tell you; how much you like a guy matters in hockey. It doesnt matter in football. It doesnt matter in baseball. It probably sort of matters in basketball. It really matters in hockey.

I know it matters in hockey. I'm not "discrediting" Moller's chemistry, but that doesn't prove how Moller has more chemistry with the team than Sully. It may be true, but that doesn't prove it.

Got a link to anywhere where the three of them say they're "best friends?" Or is it more who they hang out with away from the rink?

I can look for it. I know Rich has reported it before.

Got any links to Moller being adored by the team and cherished?

 

[Zad]

Could be worse. We could be a team that gave up a 23 year old forward and a 2nd round pick for a playoff rental that is a retread.

Wait. What?

 

[DIEHARD the King fan]

The toughest guys that I personally have ever played with have almost always been from somewhere between Kamloops and Winnipeg.

:

Geographically speaking, that would be Calgary!

 

[jt]

O'Sullivan has been slumping, but so have a lot of the players on the team. They are pretty much all having a difficult time adjusting to TM's offensive style (or lack thereof) with the exception of Fro. O'Sullivan's defense is still there, he's just struggling offensively.

If slumps, as you described above, scream "I'm not a great young player" than we would have traded everyone on our team by now, including our prize Kopitar.

Sure, if they chose to ignore other things like demanding a fortune and then not earning it. O'Sullivan held out to get a contract significantly more than he ended up with (3 yrs/$8.75M). Do you think he's earning the contract he GOT, much less the contract he HELD OUT for?? The kid is 24 and should be improving...he's regressing.

I think a lot of people are underestimating the effect a new coach has on players. His slump would be more alarming if everyone else was tearing it up, or his slump was coming in the same system with Crow still coaching, but it's not. For a guy earning more than $4 million, than Williams isn't earning it either, nor is Stoll, nor is Kopitar earning his $7 million plus.

That's a copout. Bruce Boudreau didn't have a bad effect as the Caps' new coach. Babcock didn't have a bad effect on the Wings. Carlisle didn't on the Ducks.

I'm not sure where you get your numbers from, but Williams is earning less than $4M ($3.5M), but his injuries are what's keeping him from earning it. I don't blame players for injuries. I agree Stoll isn't earning his $4.1M but he's coming ALOT closer than O'Sullivan is. But I think you'd have a hard time complaining that Kopitar isn't earning his $765,000 salary.

Sports physicians are about as trustworthy as defense lawyers. Even then, how many players, with as extensive of an injury list as Williams have come back to suddenly become healthy players that return to their prime form?

Well, when Joe Sakic was 26 he started getting hurt alot (47, 82, 65, 64, 73, 60 games). He did ok.

Lomardi says a lot of things, most of which have proven to be false. He also said O'Sullivan was one of our core players and then traded him. Williams, in his early career in Philly, struggled with coaching changes and philosophy changes. Sound familiar? Sounds like Patty O to me.

Well, I'm not a big Lombardi fan, but I disagree. The one thing I like the most about him is that he's about as honest as a GM can be. I don't know what you expect out of a GM if you think he's dishonest.

Williams struggled because he was young, he was an 18 yr old rookie. They didn't want to trade him but Carolina wasn't going to give up Markov unless they did. By the time he was 24 he scored 31 goals. O'Sullivan has regressed.

You act as if Williams has only had one injury or something. He has a SIGNIFICANT injury history. And history isn't on his side, whether it means returning to his old form, or staying healthy.

Maybe so, but I have more faith in doctors than you do. I've worked with medical experts for 20 yrs, including some sports doctors and I don't find them as deceptive as you do.

Again, lets trade everyone that has regressed this year. Bye Bye Kopitar, Brown, O'Sullivan, etc. Did we all expect more from Pat this year? I did, but I understand his struggles. In every game day thread, everyone here is *****ing about how this team can't score, we suck, have no offense, blah blah blah, but now it's all Sully's fault and we should vilify him?

Brown was given the "C" so he's adjusting to that too. Kopitar is 21, not 24.

What about his struggles is it you understand? That message board posters criticize him?

Justin Williams has 3 goals this year in 32 games. What about 3 goals from a 27 year old screams talent? (See how stupid that sounds?)

He was coming back from a serious injury and a slap shot broke his hand. THOSE are struggles I can understand.

We're all excited about Williams. Most people are upset about what we gave up for and injury prone player, one that like O'Sullivan, has stagnated/regressed lately.

So you blame Williams for allowing a slap shot to break a bone in his hand?

And for people who are so concerned about his injuries, read this: http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/590192

Williams sat out the first two months of the season with a torn Achilles tendon. He missed 43 games last season after having knee surgery, an that injury ended a string of 205 consecutive games played since March 2004 – the fourth-longest streak in franchise history.

He's had a couple bad injuries...after playing 205 consecutive games. And according to the doctors (I know, a team can't trust their own team doctors), his legs are healed.

 

[Reaper45]

Wait. What?

That's what Carolina gave up for Cole, who's injury history includes a ****ing broken neck.

 

[Zad]

Hey hey I responded first!!

In the words of Sean Avery...

and a 3 way trade is in the works...

 

[wabwat]

Yeah, we'll just see how his psyche problems affect him in Edmonton.

I'm sure when he does well, you'll think of another excuse to deprive him of any credit.

doing well and being a PPG player (82 points) as you're suggesting is apples and fat chicks.

go back and read the myriad threads where i mentioned that this kid was my second favorite player on the team... so i pray he does well. but lets be honest, the kid isn't squared away upstairs.

it isn't his fault. it is what it is.

 

[DIEHARD the King fan]

So, will we be seeing old Dave Tiger "Williams" jerseys making a comeback at Staples? Who has one of those?

#22 Williams. Nah,, had I bought one of those back then they would have traded him too!!!

 

[TonySCV]

I dont know whether I'm more pissed about the trade or the fact that I bought his damn jersey, thereby sealing the deal.

I'll trade you for my Palffy jersey.

- T

 

[Roxo]

What if I told you that we could give up a 23 year old core player + a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 27 year old that has two replaced knees and 2 good seasons? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

 

[sueroe]

You make a marvelous point. What have you done for me lately can be overdone, but its also a fair question. Like I said, I think O'Sullivan got by on talent alone, and while it made for flashes of brilliance, and really exciting hockey, I didn't saw 10% of that this season as opposed to last season.

Only in the first 5 games did I see him getting creative, going to the net, trying to find open ice, skating the puck into the zone and flipping backwards, confusing the hell out of the defenseman.

A stretch of 5-10 bad games here and there are no reason to get down on a player. A very different player from last year, when next year is make or break time for the playoffs to consider this rebuild working? It gets less obscene to me to shift attitudes between last April and this March.

Many of us have been saying these things the last 3-4 months, not just because isn't a King anymore.

I respect your point.

Yes i know you have been critical for sometime, and i understand your point, but perhaps some of that creativity went out the window when he had to refocus, starting on the fourth line on the system and adapting to that. The thing is he has always put out a 100% energy (well there were a couple dud nights) and has logged some serious ice time because he is an impact player. He definitely lost something this year offensively, and in my opinion it was partly the system, new coach, no camp, and it got in his head and messed with the confidence. So in the end he struggled in some areas, so why people start with the character assassination (not saying you), and bagging on the guy is beyond me. I am actually not surprised about the trade given what has transpired this year, but its a little scary giving up on someone with the potential he had with only his second full season in the NHL.

 

[Quattro]

I find it odd that one of the main posters in this thread is someone I've never seen on this board before.

 

[VictoryRose]

I'd go as far as to say he will do better in MacT's system.

The idea that he will be a PPG player when Ales Hemsky isn't (almost, but not quite), is so unbelievably absurd, I can't believe I'm addressing it.

 

[wabwat]

Yes i know you have been critical for sometime, and i understand your point, but perhaps some of that creativity went out the window when he had to refocus, starting on the fourth line on the system and adapting to that. The thing is he has always put out a 100% energy (well there were a couple dud nights) and has logged some serious ice time because he is an impact player. He definitely lost something this year offensively, and in my opinion it was partly the system, new coach, no camp, and it got in his head and messed with the confidence. So in the end he struggled in some areas, so why people start with the character assassination (not saying you), and bagging on the guy is beyond me. I am actually not surprised about the trade given what has transpired this year, but its a little scary giving up on someone with the potential he had with only his second full season in the NHL.

or do you sit on him and continuously try to stuff his roundness into a square hole? or yet he becomes Ladislav Nagy, Antoine Vermette, Joffrey Lupul, etc. etc.??? Dan Cleary???

KYLE CALDER?

 

[TonySCV]

Why would you trade a player you just gave a front loaded deal? I was beginning to buy into the Lombardi ponzi scheme but it's just a bad joke on me again. Trade makes absolutely no sense. Dumbardi is supposed to be getting younger and cheaper for this supposed re-build from within.

The Kings are already the youngest team in the league. That mission of getting younger and cheaper was accomplished this season. The Kings are going to be pushing for the playoffs next year, and they'll be in the playoffs the year after that. You don't get from where we are today to the playoffs by having a team full of nothing but age 25 and younger players. DL is adding much-needed pieces to the puzzle.

You have to assume Williams is healthy. When he is, you take him vs. O'Sullivan any day of the week. Hell, ignoring O'Sullivan, you take this guy any day of the week. He is 27, just entering the prime of his career and already has a Stanley Cup ring. He's exactly the type of player you want on a team with this much young talent.

- T

 

[JDM]

Yes i know you have been critical for sometime, and i understand your point, but perhaps some of that creativity went out the window when he had to refocus, starting on the fourth line on the system and adapting to that. The thing is he has always put out a 100% energy (well there were a couple dud nights) and has logged some serious ice time because he is an impact player. He definitely lost something this year offensively, and in my opinion it was partly the system, new coach, no camp, and it got in his head and messed with the confidence. So in the end he struggled in some areas, so why people start with the character assassination (not saying you), and bagging on the guy is beyond me. I am actually not surprised about the trade given what has transpired this year, but its a little scary giving up on someone with the potential he had with only his second full season in the NHL.

True. I agree with you fully about bagging on Sully's character. I only see fault in his on ice decision making. It was what he did with the puck once he got it that bothered me, and I think that goes far beyond just the system. And hey, if this is the system the team is gonna play, and a player can't really find his groove in it, it's easier to replace and trade that player than it is to get a new system so that one player can be comfortable. I think SUlly has a lot of character, but I do see him as disturbed. I remember thinking there was something wrong with him before I heard anything about his past. Its in his eyes. But I applaud him and give him all the credit in the world making his hockey career a reality. He will have success in the league, of that I am certain.

Giving up on potential is tough. But I also think it was because we knew what he could do. I can see (not always agree with) why Dean would prefer to trade a known quantity like O'Sullivan rather than a more unknown one like Purcell or Cameron/Wudrick/Roe/whoever is in the minors or AHL. Would it have been better to get Williams for Calder-Boyle + 2nd, hell yes. But no one would want that right now, because they are unknown commodities.

Bottom line is I think we had thought O'SUllivan was on the up and up now, having adjusting the NHL speed. But he seemed to regress, and we need him to be good now, not at the end of his contract.

I think really, I'm also just excited to have a youngish cup winner on the team. Having like only 4 or 5 players who have even played a playoff game has bothered me all year. You can't win like that.