News Article: Patrick O'Sullivan to Edmonton; Justin Williams to LA (3-way Trade)

[HYORI 1963]

Mark my word.

Sully will outscore Williams upon his return until either of their retirement.

I don't underestimate Williams at all but I think too many of you are overlooking Sully's skills.

Sully WILL be a PPG guy.

 

[sueroe]

A greatly ignored point today. Moller is top 6 and should have a spot there. If we look at just this season, comparing Sully and Moller, Oscar has proven more effective on the PP, grittier in general, about as good defensively, and shown better chemistry with the team and adaptation to the system than Sully. I also love Oscars attitude and never cared for SUlly's that much.

I don't know about the Straka comparison though, I think Oscar is more of a shooter than Straka ever was.

I think Moller is going to be a dominant player, and maybe he did make O'Sullivan expendable, but what drives me crazy is the extreme swings people have with players. Remember when O'Sullivan was the bright spot light last year, best defensive forward, thrived under the coaching. At the beginning of the season, he stepped in and adapted well. Remember great chemistry with Moller and Stoll. That was a great line, and then he was all over the map, but heated up the line with Boyle and Harrold (who would know), and then of course played with Kopitar and they both started scoring, and then later he is put on a line with Fro and Kopitar, and that line starts scoring and has some great chemistry? Of course defensively, O'Sullivan spent a lot of time on the PK and was great, which freed up other players for strictly offense time on ice.

So yeah maybe he isn't the right fit, he didn't have the year he should have, but man memories can be very short.

 

[VictoryRose]

We have two players that effectively can play that way: Dustin Brown and Jack Johnson.

TWO? out of an entire roster, TWO? You think that's enough? That's one of twelve forwards and one of seven d-men. Wow.

 

[JDM]

Who cares?

It's reported that everyone on the team really likes Gauthier and Armstrong too, that doesn't mean they have any chemistry with anyone on the ice or that they're good players.

O'Sullivan was best friends with Kopitar and Brown. He must have better chemistry then right?

Good sir, chemistry is on the ice.

You can see Oscar's chemistry when he anticipates where the puck is going to be, and when he gets open for his teammates.

Two things O'Sullivan didn't do much of. He spend the season chasing the play on offense (defensively he can read the play very well, I'll give him that), and running into players on offense, dumping the puck without a real intention other than getting rid of it before he gets checked. Oscar has better vision, clearly a higher hockey IQ imo. Sully has relied purely on talent. Moller has relied on heart and determination. I prefer that on my team.

 

[Roxo]

Here's a fair question.

Would you be more upset if it was Moller and a 2nd for Williams?

yes!

 

[VictoryRose]

Sully WILL be a PPG guy.

 

[Martyros]

i wasn't surprised by this deal at all. I'm happy with what we got in Williams. Proven 30-goal scorer entering his prime> Potential 30-goal scorer at the age of 23 imo. Not to mention Sully's decisions with the puck really pissed me off at times.

 

[JDM]

Quotes from Lombardi on Sully are now up:

www.insidesocal.com/kings

"The key for us was looking at improving our front and getting the right mix and the right amount of size, grit and skill. That's where our focus now moves."

Notice how he mentioned size and grit before skill.

Also, re Sully vs Williams:

"...he's bigger..."

Doesn't take a microscope...

 

[HeadInjury]

Great thread. Two things come to mind.

First, I don't know how anyone can say that this is a good trade or a bad one. There is no way to know, but we will find out in time.

Second, I can't help but laugh at everyone mourning the loss of a second round pick, like it's sacred or something. I admit that pick could have turned into the next Moller or Simmonds. It also could have turned into the next Joey Ryan, Pushkarev or, dare I say it . . ., Dany Roussin.

I think the notion of only making trades if you "win" is mistaken. Can anyone honestly believe we "won" the Cammalleri trade with the season he's having? Remember, we didn't just give up him to get Teubert, but also another first rounder. But who really cares about that if Teubert works out in the end? DL made that move to address a specific need.

DL had 14 draft picks. He wasn't going to draft 14 players. Most of his picks will never pan out. Most that pan out won't be impact players. So DL wants Williams and, in the end, it will cost him a late second rounder to get it done. He probably didn't like having to agree to it. But sometimes it's okay to overpay to get what you want. And he still has 13 picks left.

Some of you look at giving up that 2nd rounder as bad asset management. That is nitpicking at its finest. Acquiring 14 picks gave DL the luxury of being able to pull off this trade with minimal negative impact on his options at the draft.

So go ahead and set up a wake to mourn the loss of your blessed 2nd rounder, if it makes you feel better. Personally, I'm already over it.

 

[William H Bonney]

Didn't you ask about the chemistry w/ Moller? I'm telling you on authority/fact whatever, dude is cherished. big time. as a person and a hockey player. Moller's good cheer is infectious.

No, I asked if it can be proven that Moller has better chemistry with the team. That doesn't prove it.

Combined they're the age of fossils at La Brea tarpit and have roughly 11% of Oscar's hockey IQ. Are you serious with this ****? You're really working that angle?

I'm not implying they're as good as Moller, just showing you how a player being liked outside of the locker room doesn't mean they have great chemistry (in terms of playing hockey) with the team.

I don't know who you're hearing that he was "best friends" with Brown, but that ain't totally true. Anze likes everyone. He's got that typical calm euro demeanor. He likes everyone, everyone likes him, yadda yadda.

Don't believe everything Heidi Androl is shoveling between periods.

Well, it was said by both Anze and Patrick but I'm sure they're lying and you know the truth.

 

[123slam]

Guys, DL and his minions are professionals. They know what they're doing. Yes, they signed guys such as McCauley and Cloutier and Bure, but as Dean said, they were merely BRIDGE players (aside from Cloutier? I don't know about him.) Look at the guys we took chances on (i.e. Handzus, Stoll). Look how they're turning out. I did not like Sully's play whatsoever. He is very one-dimensional. I would always bag on him at games. He has no heart. This deal will work out fine. Bank on it for me.

 

[Johnny Rockstar]

When I first heard that O'Sullivan had been traded for Williams, I was surprised, even a little upset. But, after thinking about it for awhile, I am alright with it now.

This trade comes down to Lombardi being willing to take a risk, a roll of the dice. This trade is definitely a "high risk - high reward" scenario. I like that Lombardi isn't afraid to take a chance, even if though it's not a sure thing. I also think that he is willing to accept the blame when things don't work out as he had hoped. I can respect him for these things, whether I agree or disagree with his decisions.

I think that Lombardi took a chance on Williams now because he felt he could trade for Williams at a lower price right now. The price may seem too high to some. But, what would the price be next season, if Williams recovered from his injury and returned to his scoring form? It would certainly cost more than O'Sullivan and a 2nd round pick.

 

[Martyros]

Mark my word.

Sully will outscore Williams upon his return until either of their retirement.

I don't underestimate Williams at all but I think too many of you are overlooking Sully's skills.

Sully WILL be a PPG guy.

Not if he continues to shoot the puck wide, directly into a defender's foot, or directly into the goalie's chest. he has to learn to use his teamates effectively, passing the puck to a position where he WANTS someone to be isn't going to help his game out.

 

[JDM]

So, if Williams really does come back after 2 weeks and then goes out before the end of the season with a long term or career ending knee injury, is Dean the GM next season?

I'd venture to say not...

that is of course assuming ownership pays that much attention.

Boy, you are Mr. Hypothetical tonight aint ya?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

First off, the replacement thing is getting old. Oh Cammy was a cancer and O'Sullivan is better. Oh now O'Sullivan is a cancer and Moller's better. How long is he going to last till the next shiny new player comes around the corner and Moller turns into the regressing cancer?

Anyways, one point that has certainly been undermentioned is their is no garuntee we get 05-06 Williams. I would love to have that Williams, but he has 3!?! goals this year. He is damaged good. IF he regains his 05-06 form, this deal might be even (like somebody said the pick'll likely be at 54-60 so think Moller + O'Sullivan) in the long run, mostly cause that pick could bust as well and everything. But we have no garuntees. That makes this a bad deal, and bad asset management. For someone who values that, it makes little sense.

Lombardi is definetly the ultimate spin doctor. A blogger leaked so they had to up the ante, BS! I would bet money that this is not true and simply a way to cover his ass. Having Lombardi as GM is going to hurt this team in the long run I can garuntee it. Players, like most normal people, want to be appreciated and feel secure in their working environment. Who wants to sign with a two-face who will lie right to your face constantly? And don't even think of trying to get any fair market value for your skills, you'll be shipped out. Hell, mutter the wrong word behind his back and he'll get rid of you.

Overall, if Williams can regain his 05-06 form, this deal will not go down as the worst deal ever, but I still believe and always will that this was poor asset management.

 

[Zad]

I just looked at JW's career stats. He has had 2 good seasons. The rest have been very average, if not below average, on paper.

I am not impressed.

 

[William H Bonney]

TWO? out of an entire roster, TWO? You think that's enough? That's one of twelve forwards and one of seven d-men. Wow.

Where did I say I think that's enough?

There OP said that we acquired Williams because that's the kind of team we're building and it's not. Considering Lombardi believes the core of our team is already here, we're not building a hard nosed team.

Williams will help in that aspect though if healthy I agree.

 

[wabwat]

Mark my word.

Sully will outscore Williams upon his return until either of their retirement.

I don't underestimate Williams at all but I think too many of you are overlooking Sully's skills.

Sully WILL be a PPG guy.

not until he fully rehabs the injury between his ears.

it ain't his skill or hockey IQ i'm concerned about.

 

[BringTheReign]

While O'Sullivan sometimes seems to have mashed potatoes in his brain where his hockey sense should be, I did not want to see him traded, yet. If I were DL I would have waited at least until the end of the season to see what kind of package he could put Sully in the summer for some real scoring punch.

Oh, and how is that we trade the young guy with potential and end up with Justin Williams instead of ERIK COLE. I know they are both usually injured but I would much rather have Cole than Williams.

But, good luck in Edmonton Sully, have fun in the playoffs.

Williams, you better not let Sully outscore you or this board will be up in arms screaming, "Fire DL!"

 

[Martyros]

I like Moller a lot. He has great upside, but this is crazy. Moller hasn't proven anything yet in comparison to O'Sullivan.

How do you know Oscar had better chemistry with the team?

He's nowhere near as good defensively as Patrick.

I've liked Moller's play within half a season than i did with O'sullivan. Moller has brought more upside than Sully. Most importantly, Sully's bad decisions in the offensive zone caused poor turnovers while Moller makes the smarter decisions. And i don't know how you could come to the conclusion that Moller's defensive play comes nowhere near Patrick's.

 

[Johnny Rockstar]

Here's a fair question.

Would you be more upset if it was Moller and a 2nd for Williams?

Yes.

 

[Zad]

I'd venture to say not...

that is of course assuming ownership pays that much attention.

Boy, you are Mr. Hypothetical tonight aint ya?

What if I told you that we could give up a 23 year old core player + a 2nd rounder for an injury prone 27 year old that has two replaced knees and 2 good seasons? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

 

[William H Bonney]

And now we have three. And that's not true. Greene and Gauthier are hear because they are physical. Stoll plays a hard nosed grinders game. They are emphasizing Kopitar to be more physical and be a checker. Frolov was dubbed a checker. Everything coaching and management say about how they want the team to play is go to the front, get physical, check check check! When you name the league leader in hits as your Captain, that in and of itself is a message to the direction of the team.

If you remember when they said why they chose Dustin Brown as Captain, they said because he exemplifies the kind of play they want to build the team around. Not Kopitar's finesse game or Frolov's puck possession. You are right, we only had two players who excelled at that mold, it took most of the season to figure out Sully couldn't really adjust like Frolov and Kopitar slowly were. Hence the trade.

Greene does try to play that way, but he's not very effective at it, but I love his heart. He only does it effectively after the whistle, but that's needed too I guess. The goat won't be here long enough to matter (Hopefully!) I agree that's the way management envisions the team, but it's not the team we have nor do we currently have the right pieces to effectively play that way as a team.

I agree on the second.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I dont know what to think of this trade.. at first i was disappointed but after reading some counter arguments im undecided. i guess time will tell

 

[VictoryRose]

No, I asked if it can be proven that Moller has better chemistry with the team. That doesn't prove it.

Dude, the Prozac Prince or the kid skipping around thinking about drinking a malt with the girl he saw in the Team LA store. Who would you rather hang out with for six months straight?

I'm not implying they're as good as Moller, just showing you how a player being liked outside of the locker room doesn't mean they have great chemistry (in terms of playing hockey) with the team.

Your own argument is disjointed as hell. Just listen to me when I tell you; how much you like a guy matters in hockey. It doesnt matter in football. It doesnt matter in baseball. It probably sort of matters in basketball. It really matters in hockey.

Well, it was said by both Anze and Patrick but I'm sure they're lying and you know the truth.

Got a link to anywhere where the three of them say they're "best friends?" Or is it more who they hang out with away from the rink?