Patrick Kane ceiling all-time?

[canuck2010]

Are you old enough to have seen Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita and Denis Savard play?

Kane will absolutely go down in Black Hawk history as one of their greatest players of all time not sure he beats some of their great players of the 60's, 70's, 80's. That said Kane has 3 SCs so maybe this puts him to be the best over all.

Unfortunately I'm old enough to have seen Bobby Hull play in the 1950's. Kane is a nice player but is not even close to Bobby Hull, however I would say better than Savard and maybe about equal to Mikita.

I'm not a big fan of saying that the the 3 SCs necessarily make him better than some other players either. It is a team game after all.

 

[canuck2010]

Are you old enough to have seen Bobby Hull, Stan Mikita and Denis Savard play?

Kane will absolutely go down in Black Hawk history as one of their greatest players of all time not sure he beats some of their great players of the 60's, 70's, 80's. That said Kane has 3 SCs so maybe this puts him to be the best over all.

Not sure Kane is the greatest Black Hawk player but he is the greatest US born player that ever played in the NHL. Time will tell if Matthews eventually beats him out.

Unfortunately I'm old enough to have seen Bobby Hull play in the 1950's. Kane is a nice player but is not even close to Bobby Hull, however I would say better than Savard and maybe about equal to Mikita.

I'm not a big fan of saying that the the 3 SCs necessarily make him better than some other players either. It is a team game after all.[/QUOTE]

 

[Fataldogg]

uh…..crosby is below ovechkin so this makes no sense

I have Crosby and Ovechkin in the same tier, and Malkin/Kane comfortably below both of them.

I understand the argument for Crosby. I understand the argument for Ovechkin. I cannot rationalize the argument for Kane over Crosby or Ovechkin, he is not remotely close to either.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Let's compare Kane to Joe Sakic:

• Both had one huge season where they decisively won the Hart (2001 and 2016)
• Both had four other seasons where they placed in the top ten, but outside of the top five, in Hart voting (though Kane is on track to be a Hart contender this year)
• Sakic was in the top ten in scoring ten times; Kane has done that six times so far - on pace for a 7th time this year
• Kane has an Art Ross, which Sakic doesn't have - but Sakic has more years in the top five
• Through age 32, Sakic is nearly 200 points ahead. But he started his career in a higher-scoring era and missed fewer games (due to lockout / COVID). Based on hockey-reference.com's adjusted stats (which are flawed, but usable for a high-level comparison), they're virtually equal through age 32.
• Both players were key pieces of multiple Stanley Cup winners.
• Both players have a Conn Smythe (but I think there's little doubt that Sakic had the better peak playoff run, and a better playoff resume overall - averaging more points per game over more games. He also has an Olympics MVP).
• Both have scored a lot of playoff OT goals (but Sakic has the all-time record).

The comparison is closer than I initially thought. Even though Kane is tracking well through age 32, my guess is it will be difficult for him to top Sakic. First, Sakic already became a very good two-way player by age 32; Kane has usually been indifferent defensively. Second, Sakic remained very productive past age 33 (he scored more than a point per game and added three more top-ten scoring finishes). I'm not saying that Kane can't do that, but I wouldn't bet on it today.

Sakic is somewhere around 30th all-time. I think it's unlikely, but not impossible, for Kane to surpass him - so that's likely his ceiling. (That's not to say that he'll end up 31st either - to match Sakic's resume, I'm counting on him remaining productive for at least four or five more years, and even if their offensive resumes are even, Sakic is still ahead in terms of playoffs and two-way play - the later being a sizable gap).

 

[pvr]

That interesting has one should not assume (but Mikita played in the higher scoring higher games part of is career has an older player too not sure how well the raw adjusting work in that situation, but it is true that Kane also had a lot of prime during a low scoring era and is older self will have played in the high scoring has well).



Well Bobby Hull won 7 rocket richard has a Hawks and is considered the most serious candidate for the 5 best player to ever play the game, sure he quit on the Hawks at 33 and open the door but he did so much.

No, that’s incorrect. Wirtz quit on Hull. The real beginning of Chicago fans’ hatred of Bill Wirtz, culminating with the booing of Wirtz during the “moment of silence” for him at the Blackhawks game after his passing.

Love Kane, but it might well be impossible to pass Hull as greatest Blackhawks player ever, barring some sort of miraculous end to Kane’s career.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I've been saying forever Kane will retire the best US-Born player, although Matthews and Eichel have the potential to surpass him. I mean, Brett Hull is on the fence of US-Born and Canadian. But I would say right now it's Mike Modano.

One thing I predict is right now a kid who is under seven starting hockey in Las Vegas becomes one of the best hockey players of all-time. And ironically I see him playing for the Jets.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Top 5 of all time.

 

[authentic]

Top 5 of all time.

For RW? Probably.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

For RW? Probably.

Yup top 5 RW of all time and the best American born player of all time. Ahead of Hull, Chelios, Roenick.

 

[Zuluss]

Yup top 5 RW of all time and the best American born player of all time. Ahead of Hull, Chelios, Roenick.

I am not sure Kane > Brett Hull, because winning Hart/Pearson over Art-Ross-winning Gretzky is a huge feat, but maybe Kane will get there by longevity.

But top5 RW of all-time requires more than passing Brett Hull

Howe
Richard/Jagr
Lafleur
Bossy/Makarov/Cook/Conacher/Geoffrion/Bathgate

Is Kane better than anyone on the last line? Will he ever put together a career than will eclipse what those guys did?

Probably it is easier to start with Bossy, because not too many people remember any of the other players.

So if Kane is/will be top5 RW ever, Kane has surpassed / is likely to surpass Bossy? That's a tough sell.

 

[libertarian]

No, that’s incorrect. Wirtz quit on Hull. The real beginning of Chicago fans’ hatred of Bill Wirtz, culminating with the booing of Wirtz during the “moment of silence” for him at the Blackhawks game after his passing.

Love Kane, but it might well be impossible to pass Hull as greatest Blackhawks player ever, barring some sort of miraculous end to Kane’s career.

I agree and I would add Mikita to being above Kane. I would put Kane as a better Savard which means I put him 3rd on the Black Hawks all time list. That said Kane has had more success winning SC's then any other of the Hawks greatest players so I understand if people use that argument to put him ahead of Hull and Mikita. I disagree with it but I do understand it.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

If Kane doesn't score a single more points this season and then just finish out his career in a similar way as Ray Whitney did from 33 years old and onwards, Kane will end his career with 581 goals, 1012 assists and 1593 points. That would mean that Kane finishes his career 12th all time in points with 3 more points than the late great Phil Esposito.

Esposito is currently 10th all time in points.

 

[Mulletman]

Esposito is currently 10th all time in points.

Yeah but this is the future we're talking about were both Ovechkin and Crosby have already passed Esposito in points...

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Yeah but this is the future we're talking about were both Ovechkin and Crosby have already passed Esposito in points...

You don't have faith in Jumbo Joe?

 

[pucksakes666]

I’m sure he’ll be in the all time lead for game deciding goals I don’t think anyone in the NHL right comes close for getting late game tying goals or game winning goals.

 

[Mulletman]

You don't have faith in Jumbo Joe?

Unfortunately it seems like my Leafs are burying Joe Thorton by giving him less and less minutes as the season goes on. Thornton has also missed a few games with some injuries and it seems like my Leafs are also trying to distance themselves from Thornton as much as possible as there's been less and less reporting on him too. It's sad to see that they're playing jobbers like Kerfoot and Spezza over an all time legend like Thornton...

 

[Midnight Judges]

I’m sure he’ll be in the all time lead for game deciding goals I don’t think anyone in the NHL right comes close for getting late game tying goals or game winning goals.

Since Patrick Kane entered the NHL, he has 63 game winning goals - which is quite excellent.

Ovechkin has 101 in that time frame, and 114 overall.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Unfortunately it seems like my Leafs are burying Joe Thorton by giving him less and less minutes as the season goes on. Thornton has also missed a few games with some injuries and it seems like my Leafs are also trying to distance themselves from Thornton as much as possible as there's been less and less reporting on him too. It's sad to see that they're playing jobbers like Kerfoot and Spezza over an all time legend like Thornton...

That is a shame.

I'd at least like to see Joe get to 1,100 career assists, at least.

Kane should be good for 550-600 career goals and 1,000 career assists, IMHO.

 

[Ulysses31]

Kane playing his best DRW hockey