Pat Kane Investigation talk [MOD: Post #129]

[Blackhawkswincup]

You guys are familiar with DA ,, Is his silence odd here?

He has one lawyer essentially accusing police/DA office of misconduct and statements from all involved parties today

Yet he remains silent. Surely today's developments would at very least be worthy of a press release or something

 

[Megaera]

You guys are familiar with DA ,, Is his silence odd here?

He has one lawyer essentially accusing police/DA office of misconduct and statements from all involved parties today

Yet he remains silent. Surely today's developments would at very least be worthy of a press release or something

The Buffalo News has comments from the DA in their article on the situation:

Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III told The News that Eoannou’s allegations about the evidence “will definitely be investigated.†He said he was surprised to hear that an evidence bag had been left at the home of the alleged victim’s mother and said he has never heard of such a thing in more than 27 years as a prosecutor.

“In 27-plus years, I’ve never seen a rape kit tampered with,†Sedita said. “It will be investigated, professionally investigated.â€

 

[AV18]

Another theory is that it was something else from the victim's visit to the hospital. Like maybe a bag for the victim's clothes...

Gotta love people trying to guess what this stuff is without any real idea.

The paper bags for evidence collection are generally for clothes and other like items. The paper bags get sealed and initialled by the SANE and are collected by the police. The parts of the rape kit that collect the DNA and other body evidence (hair, nail scrapings, etc.,) are all placed into envelopes that get sealed and placed in a small white box that then gets sealed as well. The paper bag in the pictures looks like what would be used for the victim's clothing.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

The greatest tragedy in this is that we will never come close to a resolution on this, much less the truth. Kane, if innocent, will always be seen as the gunman on the grassy knoll who also stashed Tupac. If Kane is guilty, a first year attorney could get him off based on today's events.

 

[haseoke39]

The greatest tragedy in this is that we will never come close to a resolution on this, much less the truth. Kane, if innocent, will always be seen as the gunman on the grassy knoll who also stashed Tupac. If Kane is guilty, a first year attorney could get him off based on today's events.

The real trial now might be, which party was behind the tampering. It's hard to believe someone would do this for no reason. Somewhere behind this has to be a party with motive. If they figure that out, it may overshadow, if not imply the truth or falsity of the original crime.

 

[Ralonzo]

Someone delivered the "bag" from the rape kit (i.e. the bag that contained the rape kit evidence) to the alleged victim's mother's door step, evidence missing.

It's an old Sicilian message... it means your case sleeps with the fishes.

Lastly, if this is true, any chance this is linked to the allegation there was no semen in the rape kit? (because it was removed or the kit was stolen before all contents were examined / tested)

something smells fishy here...

 

[Cirris]

You guys are familiar with DA ,, Is his silence odd here?

He has one lawyer essentially accusing police/DA office of misconduct and statements from all involved parties today

Yet he remains silent. Surely today's developments would at very least be worthy of a press release or something

From what I understand the D.A. Sedita is soon to be running for a higher state judicial position.

The last thing he needs is to rush out and say "This attorney is lying" and not double check and see if some doofus in the police department would actually do something so stupid.

Because then he'd be ostracized as a "rape apologist" by the SJWs and forced out of office and blackballed.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

From what I understand the D.A. Sedita is soon to be running for a higher state judicial position.

The last thing he needs is to rush out and say "This attorney is lying" and not double check and see if some doofus in the police department would actually do something so stupid.

Because then he'd be ostracized as a "rape apologist" by the SJWs and forced out of office and blackballed.

Well he should be forced out of office and blackballed if he dismisses potential evidence without checking whether it is legit or not. I'm not sure what your point is. You're saying it's a BAD thing that's the DA is double checking evidence?

 

[Cirris]

Well he should be forced out of office and blackballed if he dismisses potential evidence without checking whether it is legit or not. I'm not sure what your point is. You're saying it's a BAD thing that's the DA is double checking evidence?

See, this is pretty much what I mean by a SJW who takes anything you misspoke or do not clarify and turns it into a vilifying accusation.

I was responding to someone who asked why the D.A. was being silent on the matter. Please learn to understand context of my comments when it's a response to someone else's statement. I even quoted the person in my post.

And No, he shouldn't rush out and counter argue without doing his due diligence. But that hasn't stopped people in positions like his from doing so in the past.

 

[wunderpanda]

what does sjw mean?

 

[CatsforReinhart]

You got to wonder when Kane DNA is under the nails, shoulder and not in the genital area and then the evidence bag shows up at the mothers house.

I can't help but draw the conclusion that Kane is guilty. Sure there is other hypothesis that are just as possible but that is what makes sense to me. Someone removed the vaginal swab with Kane DNA from the rape kit. That is what I am guessing. The point of the evidence bag showing up IMO is a police officer is sending a message that the evidence was tampered with.

 

[Beerz]

what does sjw mean?

Social Justice Warrior.

Aka..people who like to ***** about anything and everything.

 

[SabresFan79]

The greatest tragedy in this is that we will never come close to a resolution on this, much less the truth. Kane, if innocent, will always be seen as the gunman on the grassy knoll who also stashed Tupac. If Kane is guilty, a first year attorney could get him off based on today's events.

How?

Putting the evidence bag aside, we learned a few things today.

First, the DNA test conducted on fluid taken from the "below the waist"---vaginal area, anal area, or both---was a Y-STR analysis. (Kane's attorney butchered the type of test---I think he mistakenly called it "Y Cell.") This type of DNA analysis tests male lineage. Kane's attorney said it indicated that Kane's DNA was not found below the waist, but this type of test couldn't prove that his DNA WAS below the waist. Instead, the best it could do would be to define a class of males of the same lineage who could have contributed the DNA. So if the People used this type of test it could be that Kane's attorney spoke accurately when he said that Kane has not been identified as the contributor of the "below the waist" DNA, but I suppose it's possible that Kane could still be part of the group of males from which that DNA came.

Second, my sense is that Kane's DNA WAS found somewhere above the waist. From what I recall, the Buffalo News reported that the complainant had bite marks on her shoulders. Based on defense counsel's focus "below the waist" today, it's reasonable to speculate that the DNA came from those areas, and that Kane is the contributor.

Third, we're getting a sense of a possible defense strategy. At one point I wondered if the defense would concede intercourse but characterize it as consensual. Now I'm wondering if based on what it characterizes as the absence of Kane DNA "below the waist" the defense will argue that no intercourse, and therefore no rape, occurred.

At least one thing is potentially wrong with that strategy. Rape requires penetration, not ejaculation. So to say that the absence of DNA "below the waist" absolves Kane of rape is simply wrong. Similarly, defense counsel's focus on the absence of DNA in that area is misleading.

Finally, it bears noting that today's events are astonishing. I don't think they're fatal to the prosecution's case, though. The prosecution could prove the case without the DNA through the testimony of the complainant alone, and here I suspect they'll have at least the complainant's testimony, prompt outcry testimony (a witness or witnesses who heard the complainant exclaim that she had been raped shortly after that incident), and testimony of the nurse or nurses who conducted the rape kit. What could actually prove helpful to Kane today (although his attorney didn't say it) is the newfound ability to challenge the "above the waist" DNA as tainted by a broken chain of custody. That DNA evidence could corroborate at least part of the victim's account of the alleged assault, and with the nonsense that happened today the defense has an angle to try to persuade a jury to discredit that evidence.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Interesting that Kane said everything would be cleared up in the next day or two.

 

[SabresFan79]

You got to wonder when Kane DNA is under the nails, shoulder and not in the genital area and then the evidence bag shows up at the mothers house.

I can't help but draw the conclusion that Kane is guilty. Sure there is other hypothesis that are just as possible but that is what makes sense to me. Someone removed the vaginal swab with Kane DNA from the rape kit. That is what I am guessing. The point of the evidence bag showing up IMO is a police officer is sending a message that the evidence was tampered with.

I think it's unfair to hypothesize guilt based on what happened today. Kane's DNA could have been found in the "below the waist" swab if any intercourse that occurred was consensual. But you're not alone in thinking that one or some of the SB boys in the central office foolishly and perhaps even unnecessarily went off the grid to try to protect one of their own. It's going to take awhile to nail down the chain of custody and figure out who had access to these materials at what time. But the truth will come out, and it will turn out that somebody ruined his or her career today.

Bigger picture, putting the Kane thing to the side for a moment, if it turns out that somebody did tamper with the evidence, it is going to make a gigantic mess out of a lot of criminal cases tried to verdict based on evidence that came out of that facility. We may not see many (if any) convictions overturned, but you can bet there are going to be a lot of defendants to try to attack convictions based on evidence handled by that office if it turns out there were shenanigans here.

 

[ZZamboni]

I think it's ignorant to sway one way or the other as of today. Keep an open mind.

 

[Jim Bob]

If the DNA test results leaks are accurate (Kane's DNA found on her shoulder and under her nails, but not below the waist), I wonder if things moves toward a lesser charge of assault and away from rape?

 

[haseoke39]

See, this is pretty much what I mean by a SJW who takes anything you misspoke or do not clarify and turns it into a vilifying accusation.

I was responding to someone who asked why the D.A. was being silent on the matter. Please learn to understand context of my comments when it's a response to someone else's statement. I even quoted the person in my post.

And No, he shouldn't rush out and counter argue without doing his due diligence. But that hasn't stopped people in positions like his from doing so in the past.

Is anyone who disagrees with you a SJW? I also think people would drag his name through the mud for not investigating this, but it wouldn't be SJWs. It would be normal people who expect police competence.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.si.com/nhl/2015/09/23/patrick-kane-rape-case-evidence-tampering-what-next

We spoke with SI.com’s legal expert Michael McCann to get his thoughts on Wednesday’s bombshell revelation that key evidence in the sexual assault investigation of Chicago Blackhawks star Patrick Kane had been tampered with and that packaging from the rape kit had been left in the doorway of the alleged victim’s mother’s home.

Here’s McCann’s insight into how this could impact the ongoing investigation and what could happen next:

UPDATE: Shortly after this story went live, Erie County (NY) police issued a statement contradicting the claims of the accuser's attorney and confirming that they remained in possession of the rape kit and the original packaging. McCann had this to say in reaction to the latest development:

"I think this makes it even more likely New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman steps in to investigate. Someone is lying. This confusion also taints the case and makes it less likely that Kane will ever be charged. I would also find it surprising if the accuser's attorney, Thomas Eoannou, did not first check with the authorities about this alleged evidence before going to the media, since he would damage his client's case and risk sanction by the state bar if the materials received by the accuser's mother turn out to be fabricated evidence."

 

[CatsforReinhart]

If the DNA test results leaks are accurate (Kane's DNA found on her shoulder and under her nails, but not below the waist), I wonder if things moves toward a lesser charge of assault and away from rape?

I doubt that. From what I read it is only us spectators who think DNA is so important.

 

[Jim Bob]

I doubt that. From what I read it is only us spectators who think DNA is so important.

I'm saying if the DNA evidence that was leaked is accurate and can be put before a jury.

Kane's lawyer obviously feels that the way the DNA testing came back helps their case.

But, bite marks on a shoulder and Kane's DNA under the fingernails of the victim obviously lend itself to a theory that assault happened. But, it may not have gotten to the point that it was rape.

Kane's lawyer could argue it was overly aggressive drunken foreplay and that things stopped when she fought him off.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

I'm saying if the DNA evidence that was leaked is accurate and can be put before a jury.

Kane's lawyer obviously feels that the way the DNA testing came back helps their case.

But, bite marks on a shoulder and Kane's DNA under the fingernails of the victim obviously lend itself to a theory that assault happened. But, it may not have gotten to the point that it was rape.

Kane's lawyer could argue it was overly aggressive drunken foreplay and that things stopped when she fought him off.

You are dealing with a whole lot of speculation and it still goes back to what I said. From what I read DNA is not so important as what we make it out to be. That means the DNA results to way heavily into the decision of a rape charge. Even if DNA was there Kane could say it was consensual sex.

DNA doesn't prove rape.

 

[Jim Bob]

You are dealing with a whole lot of speculation and it still goes back to what I said. From what I read DNA is not so important as what we make it out to be. That means the DNA results to way heavily into the decision of a rape charge. Even if DNA was there Kane could say it was consensual sex.

DNA doesn't prove rape.

Where did I say DNA proves rape?

I also never said that a lack of DNA disproves rape.

Of course I am speculating as to what happened. That's what a majority of this thread is about.

I'm just wondering if this could potentially play out with Kane being charged with assault and the DA saying there wasn't enough evidence to support rape charges given the way the DNA evidence came back.

Obviously if there is video evidence or eyewitness testimony that backs up either the victim's claims or Kane's, that would change everything.

 

[Selanne00008]

You got to wonder when Kane DNA is under the nails, shoulder and not in the genital area and then the evidence bag shows up at the mothers house.

I can't help but draw the conclusion that Kane is guilty. Sure there is other hypothesis that are just as possible but that is what makes sense to me. Someone removed the vaginal swab with Kane DNA from the rape kit. That is what I am guessing. The point of the evidence bag showing up IMO is a police officer is sending a message that the evidence was tampered with.

But, if they removed the swab, they had to replace it with another one right? In a rape kit I'd have to imagine the bag, collection tools, swabs, brushes, etc etc all have the same seriel # on them. But even if we pretend that's not the case and they removed the vaginal swab, so then they replaced that one with another one that still has her dna but not Kane's? Impossible. Unless they removed it all together and it is nowhere to be found.

But the police reported that all collection devices from the kit have been tested, are resulted and sealed up properly. It's just this damn bag that is baffling us really.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Where did I say DNA proves rape?

I also never said that a lack of DNA disproves rape.

Of course I am speculating as to what happened. That's what a majority of this thread is about.

I'm just wondering if this could potentially play out with Kane being charged with assault and the DA saying there wasn't enough evidence to support rape charges given the way the DNA evidence came back.

Obviously if there is video evidence or eyewitness testimony that backs up either the victim's claims or Kane's, that would change everything.

You said because of the lack of DNA below the waist does that mean different charges.

If the DNA test results leaks are accurate (Kane's DNA found on her shoulder and under her nails, but not below the waist), I wonder if things moves toward a lesser charge of assault and away from rape?

You interpret it differently what you post I guess. Those are your words. If DNA doesn't prove or disprove rape then why would you post this? You are saying because of the lack of DNA there was no rape(or to the least rape cannot be proved).

Kane could admit to having sex with the victim then the DNA results are irrelevant.