Pastrnak or Kovalchuk?

[SeanMoneyHands]

Who was better at their peak?

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[Leafidelity]

Prime Atlanta Kovalchuk was closer to Ovechkin

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Let me just preface saying I never watched Kovalchuk so I only have his stats to go off of, if I’m wrong feel free to correct me:

Kovalchuks best season was either 03-04 or 11-12

In 03-04 he had 87 in 81, won the rocket (tied totals with 2 others), 2nd in points and 8th in PPG but a couple guys only played 40ish games, and finally 10th in the hart. The impressive fact was that he outscored his second best teammate by 32 points and 21 goals. The team as a whole was not good, as they were 20th in the league in standings

In 11-12 he had 83 in 77, came 6th in rocket, 5th in points and 5th in PPG (Crosby only played 20ish games), and finally 10th in hart again. Gap between teammates wasn't as impressive as he had a 5 point game and 11 goal gap. The team was solid and made the playoffs as WC but were 8th in the league. Again he was good in the playoffs leading the team by 4 points and tied for scoring on his team, 3rd in the league in points too,

from the stats it's close but 03-04 Kovalchuk looks like his peak form, he outpaced his teammates by an absurd rate and was a goal scoring machine.

Pastrnak's best season is either 19-20 or 22-23

In 19-20 he had 95 in 70, won the rocket (tied with Ovi), tied 3rd in points and 4th in PPG and 4th in hart. He outscored his second teammate by 18 points but 17 goals. The team won the presidents trophy and he was alright in the playoffs with 10 in 10.

In 22-23 he had 113 in 82, came 2nd in rocket, 4th in points and T-4th in ppg and 2nd in hart. He outpaced second place on his team by 46 points and 34 goals. The team was next level as they were one of the best regular season teams of all time....but then the playoffs happened where he scored goals but didn't do much else.

If pastrnak had won a cup or even had an elite playoff run in either I think I'd vote him pretty easily for peak, but since both years he wasn't amazing I think it becomes closer. I'm gonna go homer vote and say pastrnak since I've watched him and how he tears the leafs apart and he has done the same stuff regular season wise as kovalchuk but gotten higher in the hart voting.

 

[Sky04]

Pasta from an objective view but Kovalchuk was one of the most fun players to watch. Size, speed, hands and a lethal shot, his hands at top speed was probably the best in the league until McDavid/Mackinnon came along.

Is there a forward with a more lethal one timer from the point like Kovalchuk's was? Everyone else plays the half wall but Kovalchuk was scoring a ton from just inside the blue line.

 

[Regal]

Pasta’s best seasons have an argument statistically for sure but I just never feel like he’s as elite as his numbers for some reason the same way I did with Kovy.

 

[biturbo19]

Kovalchuk would've absolutely murdered today's NHL. He played a lot of his prime in an era that was far less permissive of goal-scoring and still beats out Pasta i think.

He also played most of his prime without anything resembling a #1C. Whereas Pasta has largely spent his career playing with quality centers, even if it's the tail end of their careers. Last year sorta being the "gotcha" to things, but also still really just not enough to convince me.

 

[pb1300]

Kovy, because he made Ballard use his lightsaber on his own goalie!

 

[CanadienShark]

Kovalchuk

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Kovy and its not even f***in close

 

[banks]

For a little while there Kovalchuk was, in my opinion, the next best player after Crosby/Ovie/Malkin during their big 3 heyday.

During his time with Atlanta, Kovy WAS the Thrashers. He carried that team like prime Nash did for the Bluejackets. Every single one of his shifts tilted the ice in their favour, and then they tried to hold on for dear life until he could get back on for his next shift.

The stats make it seem close. But I wouldn't care if the stats were a decisive win for Pastrnak. This is Kovy without a slight hesitation.

 

[PB37]

Both have a Richard Trophy but Pasta has hit 60 goals once and 100 points twice, all of which Kovalchuk has never done. Pasta also has two top 5 Hart Trophy finishes, 3 All Star nominations while Kovalchuk has just 2 All Star nominations and best finish was 10th for the Hart. I think Pasta has more accolades in his peak than Kovalchuk.

 

[AvroArrow]

Both have a Richard Trophy but Pasta has hit 60 goals once and 100 points twice, all of which Kovalchuk has never done. Pasta also has two top 5 Hart Trophy finishes, 3 All Star nominations while Kovalchuk has just 2 All Star nominations and best finish was 10th for the Hart. I think Pasta has more accolades in his peak than Kovalchuk.

Goal scoring is significantly higher today than when Kovalchuk played. His 50 goal seasons would pretty easily be 60 goal seasons in the modern NHL.

Close but I give Kovalchuk the edge, plus his linemates were nowhere near as good as Bergeron/Marchand.

 

[PB37]

Goal scoring is significantly higher today than when Kovalchuk played. His 50 goal seasons would pretty easily be 60 goal seasons in the modern NHL.

Close but I give Kovalchuk the edge, plus his linemates were nowhere near as good as Bergeron/Marchand.

While the scoring is close when taking that into account, Pasta has had two of his peak seasons that were considered Hart Trophy worthy to place in the top 5 in those respective years, as well as 3 end of the year All Star finishes. Kovalchuk never finished higher than 10th for the Hart in his years and only has 2 All Star finishes as one of the best in his position.

 

[Video Nasty]

Goal scoring is significantly higher today than when Kovalchuk played. His 50 goal seasons would pretty easily be 60 goal seasons in the modern NHL.

Not so sure about that. One of his two 52 goal seasons came during a year with similar scoring and power plays were juiced through the roof (he also happened to lead the league in PPG). The other year was a couple years later during a time where scoring was certainly lower, but still not for top stars as some have mentioned about the lean 2013-2017 years.

Just don’t see where those seasons easily turn into 60 goal campaigns. Maybe he does pot 60 one time, but I don’t think it would be simple.

 

[dirtydanglez]

kovy but its close

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Both have a Richard Trophy but Pasta has hit 60 goals once and 100 points twice, all of which Kovalchuk has never done. Pasta also has two top 5 Hart Trophy finishes, 3 All Star nominations while Kovalchuk has just 2 All Star nominations and best finish was 10th for the Hart. I think Pasta has more accolades in his peak than Kovalchuk.

Kovy played in the dead puck era

 

[Gordon Lightfoot]

I think it's close, but if I could have one or the other at their best, I'd take Kovy.

 

[hamzarocks]

Pastrnak for peak, prime and career in a few years time

 

[joestevens29]

Kovy was stuck in a bad situation. No linemates for much of his peak and on a club that was horrible and didn’t get much media attention to help garner hardware

 

[vtdevils2k]

Prime Kovy was ELITE.

Also, the man almost took NJ in 2012 to the cup with a broken back.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Kovy was scoring 40+ consistently back when 40 goals made you an elite top goal scorer. In his prime now he would hit 60s for sure

 

[wintersej]

Kovalchuk would've absolutely murdered today's NHL. He played a lot of his prime in an era that was far less permissive of goal-scoring and still beats out Pasta i think.

He also played most of his prime without anything resembling a #1C. Whereas Pasta has largely spent his career playing with quality centers, even if it's the tail end of their careers. Last year sorta being the "gotcha" to things, but also still really just not enough to convince me.

I do think the “gotcha” has more weight than you are giving. Nor would I discount Marc Savard being around for Kovi’s best Thrasher seasons.

 

[AnThGrt]

Kovalchuk. Maybe not ainec, but would not need to think super long about it. In his prime no player during that time scared me coming into the zone. Not saying he was the single best offensive player, but he was downright elite offensively.

 

[authentic]

To say it’s not close is seriously underrating how good Pastrnak is, but still I have no doubts Kobalchuk was the better player. The most impressive forward of the 2005-15 era after Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin/Datsyuk

 

[Hockey Outsider]

While the scoring is close when taking that into account, Pasta has had two of his peak seasons that were considered Hart Trophy worthy to place in the top 5 in those respective years, as well as 3 end of the year All Star finishes. Kovalchuk never finished higher than 10th for the Hart in his years and only has 2 All Star finishes as one of the best in his position.

That's a fair point. The counterargument is Kovalchuk missed the playoffs virtually every year in Atlanta (the sole exception being 2007, which was an off year for him). It's very hard for a player to do well in Hart voting if he's on a non playoff team. (McDavid, for example - and he's obviously a much better player - only finished 5th in 2018. Then there are several Art Ross winners who didn't finish top five in Hart voting when they missed the playoffs - Gretzky in 1994, St. Louis in 2013, Benn in 2015. Hasek was a Hart finalist five out of six years - the only exception being the one year the Sabres missed the playoffs - and there are plenty of other examples).

Pastrnak has two years in the top five, and that's a valid argument for him. But I think Kovalchuk's Hart trophy record is completely out of alignment with how he was perceived at the time.